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GW is well past its golden age in all things. The game simply doesn't have the fun element in it now, it seems horribly grimdark and all that nonsense. Years ago there was more emphasis on having fun and the hobby element, army books were more flexible. Look at 2nd edition Codex Chaos, it had the cultist and demon/beastman army lists packed in the back.

The game today is too inflexible, requires too many expensive figures and is increasingly eliminating creativity encouraging the use of plastic kits for everything from the tabletop itself to terrain.

I might be inclined to agree if I didn't play Xenos, but model wise yeah, most definitely.

Choice in the GW hobby is an illusion.

Multi-part models alow for SOME customization, but the range of posability is limited if you want to maintain any sort of natural looking poses. The idea that you could make a unique army out the stock kits is a joke. More wargear and gubbinz are included, but add them at your peril, lest your model look like a guy with a lot of unnaturally protuding chunky glued-on gear. Wargear selection included with models is also a trap, as only a few of the included options will see any play.

The SM plastic captain is the epitome of the problem with "customizable" GW multiparts. The caped body goes only ONE way on the provided legs. The arms have limited range of natural movement and can either have weapons at rest or at arms. Head swappable. Most weapons included will never see use. Stormbolter? Single lightning claw? Sure, if you split the parts and use them on other kits you get a lot of utility, but out of the box, that customized SM captain looks a lot like the other guys customized SM captain from the same box.

The same problem is reflected in the codexes, with each book having at least 30% sub-par or unusable entries.

This kind of approach inevitably isn't good as the customer is forced between knowingly taking sub-par models, go to great lengths to sculpt and/or convert with 3rd party parts OR build a generic multipart army the looking the same as everyone else, and take the efficient entries in each book, and have the same army composition as everyone else.

GW says they're giving you choice, but in reality, its "the GW way" or the highway.

Is 40k in a golden age? No, that was 2nd edition. That was the height of creativity and originality amongst GW hobbyists.

Is war gaming in a golden age? Maybe. We'll only know in the future.

I feel 40k's golden age still lies on the horizon, the fanbase is steadily increasing despite some long-time fans leaving the hobby. If the quality of the models are excellent right now, if the next edition of rulebooks can be better than 5th, we'd be on the right track. The only problem I see a lot is a lack of customization in many armies, many people merely spam their force's best unit and that is what makes the game seem worse than it is.

I'm not entirely sure how you can say that the fanbase has been expanding when GW has lost some 30% of its customer base in the past 10 years.

infinite_array wrote:I'm not entirely sure how you can say that the fanbase has been expanding when GW has lost some 30% of its customer base in the past 10 years.

GW is gaining a lot of younger, more dedicated fanatics with deep-pocketed parents. Hopefully, they don't consume the market and force GW to cater to what they want, but it's not bad for GW's marketing.

Squidmanlolz wrote:GW is gaining a lot of younger, more dedicated fanatics with deep-pocketed parents.

Gaining - Yes.
Retaining - No.

The SM plastic captain is the epitome of the problem with "customizable" GW multiparts. The caped body goes only ONE way on the provided legs. The arms have limited range of natural movement and can either have weapons at rest or at arms. Head swappable. Most weapons included will never see use. Stormbolter? Single lightning claw? Sure, if you split the parts and use them on other kits you get a lot of utility, but out of the box, that customized SM captain looks a lot like the other guys customized SM captain from the same box.

Actually..... I'm buying some bitz right now, and the Storm Bolter is going on my Deathwatch captain, and the Single LC is the very basis for my plastic Lukas the Trickster model(along with Assault legs). But I agree, I don't think I'd ever buy a full Captain box if I weren't parting it out.

The golden age was 2nd edition (warts in all) in my opinion as far as content.

Some of the coolest parts of 40K fluff/setting got recognition in some form (genestealer cults for example) and I really liked the "feel" of the game as far as having wargear cards, etc.

I also enjoyed the mission cards and how they made it so each player could have a seperate obective(s).

It felt like a miniatures-rpg hybrid and despite the fact that it was clunky at times, every game felt like an event.




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As far as models and terrain, we are definitely in a golden age NOW.

Man I really like the models and terrain. 9 out of every 10 sculpts that come out of the GW rooms is a winner. Finecast aside...ahem, it still scares me to buy a finecast 10 months later. But man as far as any army I'll even consider playing I'm always drooling to see what's going to be posted next. Painting's gotten better and better, and with the net it's so much easier to share techniques and critiques. The industry as a whole (whether it's your opinion that GW leads them or not) is pushing eachother to do better and better work. Artists have to be on their ball, like they've never had to be in the past, because their work is being recorded with 12 MP cameras.

The rules have their problems, but they did in earlier additions as well.

Rules wise, we'll never be in a golden age. Models wise, I think we're in the minaturenaissance.

MightyGodzilla wrote: 9 out of every 10 sculpts that come out of the GW rooms is a winner.

I think this is a little high tbh.

7 out of ten perhaps...

One of those ten will be so eye-hurtingly ugly that it will take at least a year to allow the brain to accept it, if ever.

One will be so awesome as to be unforgettable.

The rest will ride the curve, with more decent sculpts than lousy ones.

even tho i only just started on xmas, my bro had been showin me his space marines and eldar forces since i was 5 and now i join, the 40K universe is better than ever! so much choice and possibilities - and the models are way better. although we don't know the future - looking at the past - yeah, we're in the golden age.

infinite_array wrote:I'm not entirely sure how you can say that the fanbase has been expanding when GW has lost some 30% of its customer base in the past 10 years.

Can you provide a citation for this, I'm curious if it's true.

Allow me to quote myself:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:I found a pretty depressing graph last year. It is a Google Trends representation of GW's internet footprint, based on the average worldwide traffic of the term "Games Workshop" (redone here by me):



When one uses the term "Warhammer" instead (which of course is less GW-Warhammer spesific) one gets this graph:



...which shows the same decline while simultaneously illustrating how small the miniatures gaming scene is: the 2008 spike (A to E) is directly related to Warhammer Online and the buzz it generated in mainstream media, and the F spike is related to the Wrath of Heroes annoucement.

It is really important to turn this slow fall around, both for the sake og GW itself and the fantasy/scifi miniatures gaming hobby in general. It may not be a direct parallell to sales and hobby mainstream presence, but it is not a good trend. It also doesn't look like GW as a brand name really gets all that much help from its computer game licences - I suspect most computer game players relate Warhammer Online to Mythic and Wrath of Heroes to Bioware/EA...

"40k" doesn't work as a trend search (most references are to the number) but "warhammer 40,000" nets this:



which also has a slow decline...I do wonder what the 2011 spike is related to...it is to late the be the teaser and to early to be the rumours of cancellation.

The 2011 spike is likely the Space Marine FPS.

Finecast I would say or the fps SM game. mid year around the same time -shrugs-

Most have already been said by Carmachu, Howard A Treesong and Keezus. I would just like to mention that from model and creativity point of view in the old days you would have real options because GW was open to use other manufacturers parts, they also had bitz catalogue, and WD and studio Heavy Metals stimulated creativity in a way that is light years away from what you see today. It was a OPEN activity back then.

Today miniatures have details for the sake of details, skulls everywhere and even if multipart most of the times its all too streamlined, And I'm not even mentioning that fine cast destroys all the fun in any good model... so for me 40k is not in the golden age, not silver or copper at this moment in GW time I believe 40k is stuck inside a foolish marketing strategy and does not move a inch outside it. Its a CLOSED activity and it will eventually die.

The models are mostly fantastic, and still better than 90% of the other stuff on the market.

The game is the most fun and balanced it's ever been.

There are more good alternatives out there than ever before, forcing GW to step up their game.

Whether it's a golden age depends on your perspective and exactly what you value, but IMO for the last fifteen+ years it's been almost exclusively up. The big missteps (8th ed WH, losing bitz service, Finecast) have been outweighed by all the across the board improvements in rules and models.

Funny that you may think that we're in a Golden age. IMHO, I think Games workshop's sales might be at a golden age standard, but when they ar eputting out, not so much.

I left 40k (the game, I love the lore too much), quite recently because I've found that Games workshop does not care much for balancing, and that they only put their finger on space marines and their equivalent. The scheduled releases for this year are terrifying, and it proves further that Warhammer 40k is simply just Marinehammer 40k.

I was hopeful for Tau this year, but it seems I need to wait another year.

I'm not sure we are living in a 'Golden Age' in terms of minis or rules, for various reasons as have been stated by others.

But I think we are somewhat blessed today with the way that wargaming is ingratiating itself into modern culture much more. Where previously, wargaming was solely the preserve of the weak and nerdy, it's carries a lot less social stigma than it ever used to - there are many more demographics playing these days. We have a fair number of active female gamers participating on these forums and that is something that was almost unheard of (at least outside of RPGs) when I was a lad.

Not only that but there is much more of a cross-over between wargaming and video gaming, inasmuch as recent titles like Dawn of War and Space Marine seem to be drawing in players where they wouldn't have otherwise had exposure to the hobby - this can only be a good thing if the total number of gamers expands. In short, I think wargaming is slowly on the cusp of moving out of the basement and into the light a little more.

filbert wrote:I'm not sure we are living in a 'Golden Age' in terms of minis or rules, for various reasons as have been stated by others.

But I think we are somewhat blessed today with the way that wargaming is ingratiating itself into modern culture much more. Where previously, wargaming was solely the preserve of the weak and nerdy, it's carries a lot less social stigma than it ever used to - there are many more demographics playing these days. We have a fair number of active female gamers participating on these forums and that is something that was almost unheard of (at least outside of RPGs) when I was a lad.

Not only that but there is much more of a cross-over between wargaming and video gaming, inasmuch as recent titles like Dawn of War and Space Marine seem to be drawing in players where they wouldn't have otherwise had exposure to the hobby - this can only be a good thing if the total number of gamers expands. In short, I think wargaming is slowly on the cusp of moving out of the basement and into the light a little more.

I have personally seen no such thing.

The people at the local game store is still the exact same demographic, the tone of forums is still the same and I still have yet to ever see a chick playing at a tournament.

It may be getting more popular, I'm guessing it has to do with other games intriguing people (Warma/Hordes, Flames, Mali), but it's still the same kind of people playing.

' Golden Age ' was several years ago before my GW went one-man store and was fully staffed with guys that didnt spout GW propoganda like robots

The day Andy Chambers left Games Workshop is the day that (the golden age) the music died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NygEEH4jkho

I have to disagree. Or at the very least it's Golden Age has passed in Prince George.Just...2-3 years ago before the price hikes there were a lot of 40k players. While my particular club still fancy's 40k. I think if you rounded up the wargamers and did a survey. Well over 60% now play Privateer Press. Ironically as just before the price hikes the game flourished. Most of us had built armies before the hikes and have every intention of still putting out investment to play. I seem to recall somebody telling me the tourney turnout has been low.

On a personal note it certainly isn't with me. My beloved Space Wolves went missing when I moved out from my parent's and with them gone. I've focused on my other armies. My Beastmen sure have flourished since then, And my Harad are quickly reaching 800 points. So i'm definitely still purchasing GW product when I can affort it.

But I simply cannot afford to build another army from scratch. At least not now.

BuFFo wrote:Is 40k in a golden age? No, that was 2nd edition. That was the height of creativity and originality amongst GW hobbyists.

CT GAMER wrote:The golden age was 2nd edition (warts in all) in my opinion as far as content.

Oh, come on. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and remember what it was really like: The unpainted forces, the cheesy combinations, the uber-characters stomping everyone and everything, the crappy home-made terrain...

Great hobbyists then are still great hobbyists now. The people making amazing terrain then are still making it. The people with amazing army ideas and brilliant painting then still have that creative streak. GW has done nothing to stifle anyones creativity or originality, they've just given those less gifted of us a way to still have a great looking battlefield.

NAVARRO wrote:Today miniatures have details for the sake of details, skulls everywhere and even if multipart most of the times its all too streamlined

Wait, so they're too detailed, and too streamlined?

You can't have both.

NAVARRO wrote:fine cast destroys all the fun in any good model

I'm sorry? The casting material destroys the fun in the model?

I like the current core rules,

Not perfect, but vehicles being more survivable and everyone getting 4+ cover means power armored armies aren't as unbalanced as they were in previous editions. Non-mechable armies like Tau and Nids suffer some, but they could be fixed with better a better codex.

Codex releases are hit or miss. Its unbelieveable how the same guy can make a decent necron book, which is competitive but not over the top, and also make Grey Knights. I don't like the business model of changing rules or over/under powering certain units to push sales, but it is what it is.

'Oh, come on. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and remember what it was really like: The unpainted forces, the cheesy combinations, the uber-characters stomping everyone and everything, the crappy home-made terrain...'


So, just like today then

Necro? This thread is from 2009

Ascalam wrote:

'Oh, come on. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and remember what it was really like: The unpainted forces, the cheesy combinations, the uber-characters stomping everyone and everything, the crappy home-made terrain...'


So, just like today then

lol, yeah!