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Now I know this may sound like a contentious question, but bear with me here a moment. I've been playing this game (and lurking on Dakka) for many years and I appreciate there are plenty of issues with the rules and the overall game mechanic - but then, can we honestly say that earlier versions of the game were better? Sure, 2nd Ed and Rogue Trader (for the real old guard here) had lots of flavour, much of which was bleached out in 3rd ed, but they were even more flawed rules than what we have now. And who can argue with the fact that some of that flavour is coming back? The new Ork codex, conversion beamers in the new marine dex', Black Library fluff on tap, and as for Apocalypse...

I mean really, being able to throw down all your models on a huge table and just go for it - what a blast - forget balance, forget structure, just have fun...I've only participated in one, memorable 40,000 point apoc game, but it really was the best wargame fun I've had in years.

Now I haven't played a tournament for a long time, but as a casual observer, it seems tournament support (internationally) is better than ever. I am not in a position of sound knowledge here, so no doubt there are places or events where this is not the case.

There will never be a set of rules for 40K, or any game for that matter, that satisfies everyone. And being the internet, it is much more satisfying to talk about what is wrong with the rules than what is right with them. We could spend all day (and many, many threads do) discussing flaws in the system, but still, what we now have seems to be better than what has gone before.

And as for the models coming out over the last few years - things that even three or four years ago would have seemed like wish-listing:
Plastic Cadians (and related models)
Plastic Wraithlord
Plastic Buildings
Plastic Baneblade
Plastic Terminators
Plastic Drop pod
Plastic Stormboyz, nobs, grots et al
And on the horizon...plastic Valkyrie, 6 plastic baneblade variants and a plastic Stompa....
The list goes on

I mean c'mon, objectivity be damned, we have never had it so good when it comes to the models. I could even be convinced we will see a plastic Warhound one day.

And the prices? Well, always a sore point. We all wish they were lower. But, looking around these days (Warmachine, Infinity, Flames of War) it seems GW is the benchmark for pricing amongst wargaming minis - love it or hate it. I guess if they really were too expensive, none of us would buy the stuff.

So then, have at it - are we living in the Golden Age of 40K?

Well, I know I've been having more fun with the game than I ever have before, and I've been playing since 2nd ed. I also know that my FLGS is absolutely packed on our league night.

Almost all of the new models that have been coming out have been very good, and although people perceive plastic as having less "value" than metal minis, they're far easier to work with which leads to more creative and better executed conversions.

Aside from some codex-specific issues (do biker nobs really need a cover, armor and FNP save?) I'd say that the Big Rulebook has the best rule-set ever, with enough randomness (cover saves, difficult terrain tests, morale checks in any phase) to keep the game exciting but strategy-oriented at the same time.

So sure, I'll go ahead and agree with you.

Nope...because that would assume that things are going to get worse or that we've reached some sort of peak.

To be honest i hate APOC games and it has put me of the hobby in general, with the balance and structure things seem a little pointless, though i will agree that the minis coming out have been excellent and it does seem more people are playing then ever...

I think i am just grumpy and clinging to my structure, i dont find anything fun about super heavy stuff to me apoc games are not such much fun but more like tfg wet dream

I don't agree with the often said 'you can't make a perfect game', as argument for not criticizing the rules as they are. Literally yes you can't make a perfect game - but there are better and worse games judged against each other. 40k is silly, like a very brief game of rugby. More so with this and the last edition.
But Model wise yes now is awesome. (Though it will prob get more awesome)

Hahahahahahahaha! No we are not living in a golden age for 40k.

Having played for 15 years now, I might be reluctant to say "golden age", because we can't know the future, but I'm honestly having more fun with the game than I have in a long time.

I'm loving the rules set and new models were getting, plastic tech is now so good, and whilst i'm not a fan of mega battles i know some people like them, and the baneblade and stompa kits are nice.

So are things perfect? No.
Are they improving? Yes
I just hope they keep on improving

Ultimately, I remember back in 2nd edition as we anxiously awaited each new codex and a load of new models which would accompany them. However, we never did get some of the models for our armies and were often left to our own devices.

Nowadays, I think we are spoiled for model and terrain choices.

-Terrain looks much better than from years ago. I'm still amazed at how cool some of the cityfight style tables look that aren't created that aren't in White Dwarf or a Games Day.

-I'm spoiled for choices with models. I love the plastic range and really enjoy building armies these days (currently Orks and looking forward to IG).

I won't call it a Golden Age, but I am really impressed that GW has finally come up with huge kits like the Baneblade, Stompa, Valkerie, Cityfight and an entire table top surface. All very cool and enjoyable.

Gordy2000 wrote:Now I know this may sound like a contentious question, but bear with me here a moment. I've been playing this game (and lurking on Dakka) for many years and I appreciate there are plenty of issues with the rules and the overall game mechanic - but then, can we honestly say that earlier versions of the game were better? Sure, 2nd Ed and Rogue Trader (for the real old guard here) had lots of flavour, much of which was bleached out in 3rd ed, but they were even more flawed rules than what we have now. And who can argue with the fact that some of that flavour is coming back? The new Ork codex, conversion beamers in the new marine dex', Black Library fluff on tap, and as for Apocalypse...

I mean really, being able to throw down all your models on a huge table and just go for it - what a blast - forget balance, forget structure, just have fun...I've only participated in one, memorable 40,000 point apoc game, but it really was the best wargame fun I've had in years.

Now I haven't played a tournament for a long time, but as a casual observer, it seems tournament support (internationally) is better than ever. I am not in a position of sound knowledge here, so no doubt there are places or events where this is not the case.

There will never be a set of rules for 40K, or any game for that matter, that satisfies everyone. And being the internet, it is much more satisfying to talk about what is wrong with the rules than what is right with them. We could spend all day (and many, many threads do) discussing flaws in the system, but still, what we now have seems to be better than what has gone before.

And as for the models coming out over the last few years - things that even three or four years ago would have seemed like wish-listing:
Plastic Cadians (and related models)
Plastic Wraithlord
Plastic Buildings
Plastic Baneblade
Plastic Terminators
Plastic Drop pod
Plastic Stormboyz, nobs, grots et al
And on the horizon...plastic Valkyrie, 6 plastic baneblade variants and a plastic Stompa....
The list goes on

I mean c'mon, objectivity be damned, we have never had it so good when it comes to the models. I could even be convinced we will see a plastic Warhound one day.

And the prices? Well, always a sore point. We all wish they were lower. But, looking around these days (Warmachine, Infinity, Flames of War) it seems GW is the benchmark for pricing amongst wargaming minis - love it or hate it. I guess if they really were too expensive, none of us would buy the stuff.

So then, have at it - are we living in the Golden Age of 40K?

What got you playing in the first place?

Was it the great models? the creativity? Being able to build and convert any force you wanted?

Or was it being pigeon holed into having to play One or the other, with a variation on a color of space marine?


Looking back? If GW was as ass as it is now, I probibly wouldn't have even got into the hobby, or I would have dug hard into something other then this particular companies product.

I got into the hobby because point blank, the game was fun. Sure along the way there was bumps in the road, as far as the rules and minis are concerned, but we always make due.

In summery,. GW is possible to be excelent in some regards, and absolute garbage in others.

Golden Age? Hardly. Evolving company with room to improve, a viable product, and quite possibly one of the biggest in the food chain of gaming.

This hobby doesn't get the luxury of a "Golden Age" because there is always competition to come up from behind and take the cheese. Getting people interested enough to take the ferrarri out for the test drive, and getting a few dollers out of the guys pocket is the ultimate goal.

It sure is a golden age for my Squat, LatD & Genestealer Cult forces. Not to mention all my various flavors of Chaos Legions (Infiltrating Cultist Alpha Legion, 4HS Iron Warriors etc.)

I'm also glad that all the daemons retain their distinct non-generic flavor.


Aside from that, it's all pretty good. The rules are tighter than I ever recall them being (even if Vehicle Squadrons suck with the die on Immobile thing), the models for the most part look fantastic. I had more fun playing 2nd Edition, but the game now is clearly a better thought out game.

We are in a Gilded age

If Sqats ever see the light of day, then yes!

Ding! Used 'squats' in my 500th Post!

Yes. The orks have a new codex. They are now the broken army. The age of man has come to an end, the age of the ork is dawning. Suck it MEQs!

I think we are at the start of the golden age.The rules
we have now don't seem to have much wrong with them,if
arguably anything.I hope GW realise that they are pricing
a lot of their metal models out of the market.For example
to build a flexible necron force you need a bank loan.
More of their models I suspect will be plastic,for at the
rate GW price rises go it won't be that far away from
being £20 for a single model,and nobody will pay that.
My golden age would be a huge surge in the story timeline,
something really dramatic!

BigToof wrote:Yes. The orks have a new codex. They are now the broken army. The age of man has come to an end, the age of the ork is dawning. Suck it MEQs!

I can't wait until the Orks' next codex, where they get nerfed into oblivion. Like so bad that they make the Ork 3rd edition codex look like it was the greatest codex ever.

I really can't wait.

Absolutely not the goldne age.

Its great that we get the ton of models, but the hobby attitude from them is completely copper age now. I remeber a beter age of modeling and hobby then today.

Build things out of any model, from any company. Citadel Journal had alot of great stuff, if a bit wacky. Specialist games.....

BigToof wrote:Suck it MEQs!

hurrah!

I've been in the hobby for about 15 years, playing the same army in various point levels. I have to say that I was having the most fun with the game immediately prior to 4th edition coming out. The competition for my time was relatively low and GW seemed to actually care about my experiance as a player.

Currently, GW has a poor attitude in regards to their rule sets and other product lines are producing products that are superior in their cost vs reward vs annoyance factors.

Will you please listen to yourself? In the same post you mention the flawed rules of 1st and 2nd edition and the streamlining of the game later on then to go on to talk about fantastic, wacky games of apocalypse. But what do I know, maybe people like apocalypse so much because they can finally go back to games with roguetrader style amounts of holes. I don't know.

Or maybe we should pull up the history of white dwarf, shall we? You know, I read an article in it about personalizing your miniatures and a little more advanced positioning. There, I found a little gem, did you know you can make your miniatures look like they are aming by turning the head the same angle as the gun?

Miniatures, absolutely. There has never been a better time for those using their own, or older rulesets.

I keep seeing squats everywhere. Squats this, squats that...WHAT ARE SQUATS?!?

Dashofpepper wrote:I keep seeing squats everywhere. Squats this, squats that...WHAT ARE SQUATS?!?

They were an army of Space Dwarves that existed in the 1st and 2nd editions of 40K.

They were mad Space Dwarf Bikers with Daddy issues.

.....They took away space dwarves?!?!

Perhaps we are living in a plastic age of 40k

Ah, the internets...

...now just to clarify here, I'm asking the question are we living in a Golden Age, not making a statement (the question mark at the end of the sentence is a clue). Personally, I don't think we are, as I believe GW and 40K will continue to improve - here's hoping the background richness is better used (a la 2nd Ed etc) and the rules get better (as for the corporate attitude, good luck with that).

Dashofpepper wrote:I keep seeing squats everywhere. Squats this, squats that...WHAT ARE SQUATS?!?

Nothing worth mentioning.

Rules wise, the 5e book is better than previous editions in the sense that it is less riddled with obvious flaws and errors. It's still not balanced or streamlined, but the unbalance has changed direction. I don't think it will get much better.

A lot of the problem is the policy of slow updates to codexes which means whatever the status of the current rules, a number of codexes will be wrong.

Gordy2000 wrote:I mean really, being able to throw down all your models on a huge table and just go for it - what a blast - forget balance, forget structure, just have fun...

I mean c'mon, objectivity be damned, we have never had it so good when it comes to the models. I could even be convinced we will see a plastic Warhound one day.

And the prices? I guess if they really were too expensive, none of us would buy the stuff.

So then, have at it - are we living in the Golden Age of 40K?

I think, for most players, especially casual players, 40k hasn't been this good since Rogue Trader. And then, only because Rogue Trader was totally free-form and unstructured - nearly anything was possible under the original RT rules. The basic 5E ruleset is very good, tighter and cleaner than any of its predecessors, and far more scalable than what we've had to date. Apocalypse captures a lot of the energy and freedom, but channels it with a little bit of suggested structure along with a bunch of fun options.

Model-wise, plastic technology is really come a long ways, and the new stuff is fantastic. I think we'll see a plastic Warhound soon enough, that GW is saving this in their back pocket for when FW Warhound sales finally start to dip a bit. I'll bet the CAD work is already complete, and it would just take an thumbs up from on high for the plastic Warhound to go into production. I love seeing Apocaypse models and formations take the board.

Price-wise, I don't really see GW as expensive at all. I've been at it for over a decade, and my original Eldar models are still playable any time I want to throw them down on the board. GW models have a reasonable upfront cost that gives years and years of play. Best of all, Apocalypse lets you play all of the stuff that you bought.

I think things are great now.

I love 40k now more than ever, I have more disposable income, the plastics keep getting better and better. And my favorite part is I get to field retardly absurd amounts of tanks in APOC games. Whats not to love.

I feel that its a great time for the "hobby" side with more and more plastic/interchangable kits.

Also all the plastic buildings and gaming boards are amazing!

Im enjoying the modeling more than ever. The game is just as fun as ever for me