Datasheets for new Baneblades & Imperator Titan posted...

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**grizgrin**

Y'know, I am really seeing no point in having these things as transports. What am I missing? It just seems like a waste of space that could have been dedicated to what a tank is for: horsepower, armour and weapons systems.

**Squig_herder**

Whens the plastic kit coming out for this? lol

**Masaioh**

It's out now.

**Techboss**

grizgrin wrote:Y'know, I am really seeing no point in having these things as transports. What am I missing? It just seems like a waste of space that could have been dedicated to what a tank is for: horsepower, armour and weapons systems.

Yeah, without the transports being "fast", there is no point unless your infantry is really squishy. Funny thing is, most squishy infantry don't want to get in the H2H, which is what transports are needed for. My thought, GW game designers were looking at them and thought, we'll, they need something else; I know, transport capacity.

**grizgrin**

Techboss wrote:
Yeah, without the transports being "fast", there is no point unless your infantry is really squishy. Funny thing is, most squishy infantry don't want to get in the H2H, which is what transports are needed for. My thought, GW game designers were looking at them and thought, we'll, they need something else; I know, transport capacity.

Well, it's not even the fast part, really. You could make an arguement for just wanting to make SURE that the CC monsters make it to HTH. But then why open top? I dunno, maybe just to protect the flanks from Teh Enemy.

**chaplaingrabthar**

I have to say, the new Tau datasheet is the epitome of 'meh,' 3 Pathfinder teams and a 'Stealth' Devilfish that can't transport anything?

Oh well, I don't play Apoc, and this is hardly persuading me.

**Masaioh**

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I have to say, the new Tau datasheet is the epitome of 'meh,' 3 Pathfinder teams and a 'Stealth' Devilfish that can't transport anything?

Oh well, I don't play Apoc, and this is hardly persuading me.

Next time you go to GW, flip through the apoc books. There are much better datasheets in there, like the barracuda.

**chaplaingrabthar**

I have IA3, the Barracuda is in there. I need more practice at regular 40K before I go hogwild for Apoc.

**Necros**

So tyranid screamer killers are eldar in disguise? They seem to be labeled as command warwalkers...

**JohnHwangDD**

Techboss wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:If you assume half the Marines are in cover, then things reshuffle a bit.

This will push the Shadowsword, Hellhammer and Stormsword up in effectiveness.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Apoc has a lot of AV13+ that needs to be dealt with,

I concur with this, but it is still kind of a mute point. All the tanks except 2 are strength 9 or higher and one of the remaining tanks is strength 8. This means that the Stormlord is really the only tank that suffers from having a low weapon strength.

JohnHwangDD wrote:It is significant that the Transport Tanks don't make any use of their Fire Points in your analysis.

This was omitted because of the huge variance that can occur based on who is in the tank.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The minimum range on Banesword is a problem in Apoc games where you start on top of your opponent.

This isn't that much of an issue if the tank setups up in a corner and/or back edge. The tank justs needs to be treated as a over grown Basilisk.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I agree the Baneblade is the best bang for the buck, but the Stormsword isn't far behind, nor the Banehammer.

I don't see any real issues in taking the Baneblade, Stormlord, Stormsword and the Shadowsword in vehicle heavy battles. The Banehammer has uses against Orks and Tyranids. The Doomhammer and Hellhammer are probably the worst tanks of the bunch, all the rest have some slot they can fill.

As I said, not much overall change.

The Stormlord looks better because you picked a metric that it is tailored for.

Baneblade still rules for pure killiness.

For Guard, a Superheavy with "free" Transport is rather attractive.

The Banesword is 450+ pts of Basilisk, which you can simply replace with a 3 Basilisk formation - it's a waste of a superheavy chassis.

Agree that the Doomhammer and Hellhammer are categorically inferior.

**deadly chicken**

the bane hammer sucks. what is the point of have all that pinning stuff. It'll just harrass someone not do any damage.!!

**Squig_herder**

Masaioh wrote:It's out now.

Have i missed something? wheres the kit for it?

Linky please

**Grot 6**

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/02/showcase-40k-scale-imperator-titan.html

Bell of lost souls shows a lot for it from Adepticon 09.

Back in the day, they played with one of these on a gym floor, someplace. I forgot where, but that was around the time when old, "You Know Who" started putting out his Titan models, then got crushed for it.

I'm smelling Gymfloor hammer making a serious comeback, especially when someone pops up to your game with a Dominatrix Nid titan.

**Techboss**

grizgrin wrote:We But then why open top?

I read it as open top only when it unloads or loads troops, otherwise, it's closed top.

**Scottywan82**

Can you fire a heavy weapon from a firing platform is the vehicle moved?

**Techboss**

Scottywan82 wrote:Can you fire a heavy weapon from a firing platform is the vehicle moved?

Unless there is some super heavy rule providing for the exception, no. If the vehicle moves, then the models in it are treated as moving as well. Basically, the models fire the same as they would if they had moved.

**Scottywan82**

Then yeah, there really is no damn point in having them in there.

**Anung Un Rama**

mDaro wrote:
FlammingGaunt wrote:The Chaos Doomsday device is awesome. My chaos friend will be happy to hear this.

That should soooooo be an Ork Mek datasheet~! I'm ripping that off and making my own Ork Doomsday weapon!

You cando that in Apocaly...oh wait..never mind....

Hmmm...now how could I build an Ork Doomsday weapon......

**BrookM**

Hang on, wasn't that missile something of an Orkish doomsday device?

**Captain Shrike**

Death By Monkeys wrote:Heh. Okay, I can't really read German, but here's what I get from the datasheet for the Imperator: it's 4000 points and when you play it, you win.

More seriously, though, I'm actually surprised that it only has a rear armor of 14. WHAT? A Land Raider has better rear armor than it does?! Granted, it has 12 structure points and 8 void shields, but seriously only a rear armor of 13? Come on. It's the biggest Titan in the Imperium and you only give it a 13 for rear armor?

Isn't the Emporer titan the biggest

**1hadhq**

Captain Shrike wrote:
Death By Monkeys wrote:Heh. Okay, I can't really read German, but here's what I get from the datasheet for the Imperator: it's 4000 points and when you play it, you win.

More seriously, though, I'm actually surprised that it only has a rear armor of 14. WHAT? A Land Raider has better rear armor than it does?! Granted, it has 12 structure points and 8 void shields, but seriously only a rear armor of 13? Come on. It's the biggest Titan in the Imperium and you only give it a 13 for rear armor?

Isn't the Emporer titan the biggest

Emp o rer ?

Maybe Emperor? or in reality : Imperator

But

the "imperator-class titans" are the biggest warmachines of the titan legions.

**JohnHwangDD**

No, it's an Emporer Titan on plastic spurs, allied with Blood Angles against Choas.

**Death By Monkeys**

Aren't the rules for that back in Rouge Trader?

**Asmodai**

grizgrin wrote:
Techboss wrote:
Yeah, without the transports being "fast", there is no point unless your infantry is really squishy. Funny thing is, most squishy infantry don't want to get in the H2H, which is what transports are needed for. My thought, GW game designers were looking at them and thought, we'll, they need something else; I know, transport capacity.

Well, it's not even the fast part, really. You could make an arguement for just wanting to make SURE that the CC monsters make it to HTH. But then why open top? I dunno, maybe just to protect the flanks from Teh Enemy.

Open-Topped lets you assault the turn you disembark.

This is actually one of the better delivery vehicles for Banshees/Harlequins or even Genestealers.

Normally you don't need to disclose what's inside a transport. Drive up your Stormlord while your Shadowswords and Baneblades are occupying the enemy's attention and then drop 40 Harlequins/Genestealers directly into close combat.

It's not as crazy as some of the other Apocalypse stuff out there, but still a viable tactic.

**Alpharius**

Asmodai wrote:

It's not as crazy as some of the other Apocalypse stuff out there, but still a viable tactic.

No, that actually is rather crazy, even for Apocalypse.

**Techboss**

Alpharius wrote:
Asmodai wrote:

It's not as crazy as some of the other Apocalypse stuff out there, but still a viable tactic.

No, that actually is rather crazy, even for Apocalypse.

GW RAW though

**grizgrin**

Nothing is crazy for apoc. If you think so, let me introduce you to the all-Orbital Strike army out of the DemonHunters codex. No models for your opponent to kill, and with a 2d6 effectively nukes the board. And the fridge.

CHEAPEST army in any GW game!

Or how about the 3 Lascannon Team + SharpShooter unit out of the IG codex? 120 points, spammed into a 3000 point apoc army? Or hell, cut that with heavy bolters and you've got a lil sumn-sumn for everyone.

Neither of these ideas were mine, BTW.

**deadly chicken**

The only reason I put troops in my stormlord is to protect them while letting them fire. so basicly they are in mobile cover that giver them armour 14 value!!!

not to mention the fact that 10 devastators armed with 2 rockets, 2 heavy bolters, 2 plasma cannons, a lascannon and a multi melta can smite anything off the face of the earth! *or whatever daemon planet im fighting on*

**lord_blackfang**

grizgrin wrote:Nothing is crazy for apoc. If you think so, let me introduce you to the all-Orbital Strike army out of the DemonHunters codex. No models for your opponent to kill, and with a 2d6 effectively nukes the board. And the fridge.

CHEAPEST army in any GW game!

Or how about the 3 Lascannon Team + SharpShooter unit out of the IG codex? 120 points, spammed into a 3000 point apoc army? Or hell, cut that with heavy bolters and you've got a lil sumn-sumn for everyone.

Neither of these ideas were mine, BTW.

No, what you do is take a bunch of 20-pt Kannons, and make each one a separate unit.