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Ratbarf wrote:

Quoi?

Is that not a reference to Ozymandias (the pic and name) from The Watchmen?

PS: I've read the poem to in English class, I just thought the pic was a picture of old Aquaman or something.

What?!? My avatar is from the Watchmen comic?! Why didn't anyone tell me!

And the quote in my sig is from some poem you say?


I just think it's a coincidence.

Hahaha, I was waiting for someone to ask you if you avatar was from the movie. Read more books people, especially ones with pictures in them!

Oh, and actually on topic, the plastic trygon looks sweet, and if the plastic T-Hawk comes with planetstriek, as we have heard little whispers about, sweet titties that will be a happy day!

I have more than a company, they just need a super heavy to round them out!

Okay, the following is purely hypothetical, but bare with me for a second:

- as far as I know the Trygon is one of the "smaller" Gargantuan Creatures. And judging from the pic it's still "lower" than a Monolith.
- Apperantly there is a new 'Nid Codex on the way, but as usual, GW needs some sort of shiney new unit/model to get everyone's attention. And at this point, I seriously doubt that we'll get a new Tyrant, 'Fex or Lictor.
- There's a supplement on the way which focuses on attacker vs. defender and the Trygon is known to dig tunnels for the bugs to crawl through!

Just my 2 cents.

Reecius wrote:sweet titties that will be a happy day!

QFT, also, I now love the phrase sweet titties.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I seriously see this as being in the Tyranid codex getting downgraded from Gargantuan to an extra tough monstrous creature.

Why? They didn't do that for the Baneblade, Shadowsword or Stompa? What do you base this on?

Because its smaller than either of those. Because its overpriced at just under 300pts. Because unlike Baneblade, Shadowsword, or stompa it isn't remotely overpowered and game misbalancing.

The tyranids have always lacked something analogous to a vehicle. GW slowly crept up the size of the Carnifex partially to deal with that void despite the fact that previously existing vehicle sized creatures existed. They did that because they didn't have the ability to make anything that size that was so organic. Now they do, now they can. I only believe they'd down grade it for the codex to keep it in the convention of the main rule book. A codified version og the Trygon would probably come in at 250pts and be the equivalent to being their Landraider or their monolith. You could maybe force it and squeeze a malanthrope out of the kit with the right bits. Even with bits for both the kit would never come near the $95USD mark that GW's been shooting for as a price goal. The model at best hits the $60 based on its size, they'd have to give you two to a box to make it make sense.

I personally believe that a Heirodule is more equivalent in size and power to a baneblade. If GW is trying to present each army with something relatively even with each other this is the prime candidate because of its generally equal footing, its equal size, and offers the most variety of possible variants off of one model. In much the same way that GW did many variants on the baneblade chasis, things like the Malefactor, Harusepex, and Dactylis could be incoporated into a Heirodule model with different heads and arms alot more easily then onto the Trygon.

The trygon is just a weaker candidate for a Tyranid superheavy kit relative to other options.

Ozymandias wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:

Quoi?

Is that not a reference to Ozymandias (the pic and name) from The Watchmen?
PS: I've read the poem to in English class, I just thought the pic was a picture of old Aquaman or something.

What?!? My avatar is from the Watchmen comic?! Why didn't anyone tell me!
And the quote in my sig is from some poem you say?
I just think it's a coincidence.

*face palm*

As someone who owns one of these bad boys Im a little miffed they are making a plastic one lol.

Really though gamewise its not that good. You can make a better CC Carni that is cheaper, and stays locked in combat. I know people are gonna say but wait it can assault outta DS, but its doesnt stay locked in combat hence it dies to shooting in the next round.

All of the Tyr Gar arent really that good (superflea aside). They can only make their points back by killin something in 1 round worth their cost.

Right now the Trygon cant really do that...what costs 300+ pts that they can kill in one round?

Now now, no reason to get all sarcastic and the like.

We are talking about a book where a main character has a glowing radioactive penis.

aka_mythos wrote:Because its smaller than either of those.

Not by a huge margin. And certainly the size of the model shouldn't be an absolute for the purposes of determining rules.

aka_mythos wrote:Because its overpriced at just under 300pts.

Don't disagree there. It's a straight FW copy and they're always over priced. And its stats are pathetic.

aka_mythos wrote:Because unlike Baneblade, Shadowsword, or stompa it isn't remotely overpowered and game misbalancing.

Overpowered? Ignoring Strength D, which cannot be balanced, super-heavies aren't overpowered and game misbalancing. A Baneblade goes down in a turn to some Termies with Chainfists. I've used Macharius' extensivley and they're not worth the resin they're made out of (do look cool though).

People are afraid of Super-Heavies on an irrational level. The Baneblade is easily 200 points overcosted (thanks to FW), and keep in mind that it was 600+ points before it got itself a 10" blast marker. The Shadowsword suffers from 'one gun' syndrome in that once its main gun is gone it's a lump of nothingness (some HB's... wow...). The Stompa I won't comment on as I've not used one nor faced one, so I can't claim anything here. But the rest? Super-Heavies are 40% walk and 60% talk.

H.B.M.C. wrote:People are afraid of Super-Heavies on an irrational level. The Baneblade is easily 200 points overcosted (thanks to FW), and keep in mind that it was 600+ points before it got itself a 10" blast marker. The Shadowsword suffers from 'one gun' syndrome in that once its main gun is gone it's a lump of nothingness (some HB's... wow...). The Stompa I won't comment on as I've not used one nor faced one, so I can't claim anything here. But the rest? Super-Heavies are 40% walk and 60% talk.

The irrational fear part is certainly true. I've gotten some hilarious reactions out of people when I've played with two Malcadors and a Baneblade. They often fall short of the mark as far as effectiveness goes, though to be fair, I've had two or three spectacular successes. I'm not sure if I'd go as far as to say the Baneblade should be 300 pts, but the Malcador Defender, at least, at 315, is overcosted by a margin of ca. 100 points.

I've put down my all Super-Heavies in a single game before - 3 Baneblades, a Hellhammer, Stormblade and a single Macharius (I would have had three if not for FW's 8-month shipping process). Backing me up was a pair of Revenant Titans. Half of them were gone by the bottom of turn three, most of them to Terminator Chainfists. I'm mored worried about 30-40 Terminators hitting my lines in a game of Apoc than I am 10 Super-heavies firing downrange at me. My Arty Corps (4 Bassy, 3 Manticore, 2 Griffon, 1 Bombard) caused more damage than all the Super-Heavies combined. And the Baneblade's worth about 450 (not 300). 400 for its lesser cousins.

The Malcador is terribly overcosted. Well armed, especially compared to the Macharius (more on that in a sec), but its slowness and armour makes it a liability. Factor in 5th Ed's rules for HTH attacks vs Rear Armour and you've got yourself a real liability there.

The Macharius is worse from a game perspective. A single big gun, and seconday weapons that are worse than a standard Russ, for more than twice the cost of a Russ. Two Russes put out more firepower and are arguably harder to kill for less points.

But that's Warwick fault - Mr. Copypasta couldn't wouldn't know decent rules if they came up and bit him in the face.

Hm. I see that in the new codex, a LR Demolisher with three HBs is 175. So, how should a Malcador Defender with a Demolisher cannon plus seven HBs be priced?

The figure of 215 I suggested might be a bit aggressive, but it's in the right general ballpark. Considering the Malcador chassis has 1 point less AV on front and sides, and that the superheavy status isn't that much of an additional protection from early destruction, especially by CC units. As a whole, I think Warwick is overrating structure points.

Hm, I think I should start a new thread about this.

EDIT: I did: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/234491.page

H.B.M.C. wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Because its smaller than either of those.

Not by a huge margin. And certainly the size of the model shouldn't be an absolute for the purposes of determining rules.

It does when you consider the context of what I was saying, that relative to a the other large models GW is doing for other armies its tiny and GW won't be able to get a $95USD for it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Because unlike Baneblade, Shadowsword, or stompa it isn't remotely overpowered and game misbalancing.

Overpowered? Ignoring Strength D, which cannot be balanced, super-heavies aren't overpowered and game misbalancing. A Baneblade goes down in a turn to some Termies with Chainfists. I've used Macharius' extensivley and they're not worth the resin they're made out of (do look cool though).

It is overpowered and game misbalancing in a standard sized 40k game. That is what we were talking about. You know downgrading it to be on par to a 40k vehicle rather than a superheavy; to make it usable in a standard game in such a way as to not require apocalypse. So obviously I'm not talking about how its used in Apocalypse.

I was just saying to in all likelihood to keep stuff simple it'd be easier to downgrade it so it could follow the standard rules and fit a standard game.

Here is an easier break down:
Reasons it should be in 40k (and not just apocalypse):
-Aside from shoehorned carnifex, Nid's never got their "vehicle" sized models or rules in their codex.
-It has limited rules and point values that are generally in keeping with the scope of 40k scaled game.

Reasons it should be downgraded:
-Already one of the weakest of the Nid superheavies, it stands little to lose in becoming a "monstrous creature" with added abilities.
-To keep in a standard game it needs to have rules covered by the standard rulebook without requiring more than a paragraph to explain its special rules.

Even if the size is soso, its still boring to see same stike a pose , same 3 pairs of scyth!



hi im a trygon cat!

I would love a plastic Trygon kit.
I have had so many conversion ideas for the model, but don't have the confidence/skill to convert resin. Plastic would be a lot easier. I also really like the model and despite it's lackluster rules (as has been pointed out in this thread) it is still a really cool model to field on the table.

I suspect a plastic trygon will have a couple of different limbs and heads to choose from.

If it is in the new Nid codex (can't wait for that since Nids is the only army I have) I wonder if it will be like tanks in the new IG codex, or indeed Biovores/Zoanthropes in the current Nid codex, and 1-3 can be taken as a single HS choice.

Alitte OT ,

but i was wondering if there is any case in the past where mass warhammer fans ( example dakka ) sign petition for creating new game units?

LunaHound wrote:hi im a trygon cat!

Longtrygon is long?

*Edit sorry dont want to go off topic ><

OK, this is just peeing me off.

A few months ago I say to myself, "Self! a small skink army would be fun, maybe just 1000 pts for fun little games". So I buy some skinks. Then all the sudden "OMG new army book" and now I'm pushing 2000 pts of half-built models.

Then "OMG New guard stuff!!" nuff said.

And now a plastic trygon that I will not in any way shape or form be able to resist buying.

I guess I'm just not allowed to have money :( But at least my army men will always love me no matter how poor I get.

plastic trygon? ill take 10
ok, they arent the best for the points, but they look great, and for people that have never faced them it scares the gak out of them.
if my 3 scare someone then i need more!

from the pics i can see quite a few small differences, not that blatant, but they can be seen.
for all those who say it looks close to the FW one so it must be, look at the new plastic valk

Platuan4th wrote:

jackinthetank wrote:The models are clearly the same... the "plastic one" had just had it's jaw lowered and its tongue extended with putty.

I can assure you it's not the FW Trygon, or at the very least, if it's a conversion of one, very little of the original parts are on that conversion. I own the FW model and comparing mine to the Apoc pic and Phil Kelly's model, they are clearly NOT the same.

Once again I am misunderstood. The new plastic model looks the same as the FW one without taking into account small details. However I believe in the process of pre-casting the designer has taken the FW model and extended the tongue and had it's jaw lowered. Then the designer would have added some more intricate details.

Yeah but we all thought the plastic Valk was the FW one when we first saw photos, it was those tiny little details that distinguished the 2.

Ratbarf wrote:Now now, no reason to get all sarcastic and the like.

We are talking about a book where a main character has a glowing radioactive penis.

I'm just teasin ya. Nothing but love* for my brother Dark Angel.


*Manly, brotherly love.... Hey, just cause we play Dark Angels doesn't mean... Nevermind.

Ozymandias wrote:I'm just teasin ya. Nothing but love* for my brother Dark Angel.


*Manly, brotherly love.... Hey, just cause we play Dark Angels doesn't mean... Nevermind.

Shh... They must never know the secret we keep hidden in our dres... er, robes! Yeah, they're robes! Not Dresses in anyway, but manly, monkly robes!

Monks? Like the ones who spend years leaving in solitary training to fight with their "bare hands".

Man, I love OotS.

Its all good in da hood yo!

or the DA version

Its all <<Censored Rhyme>> on the rock yo!

OT, a Trygon horde of all the same basic pose I think would be really rather repetive, I hope they do give the option for at least leaning it over somewhay as the current pose is lack lustre in my opinion. Too static for the vision I have of a Trygon, more of a giant snake lizard thing that moves with blinding speed than something that looks like it got charmed out of a box by a demented Charmer...

If you can think of a better way to make a legless snake stand up right other than having it perched on its coiled tail, please enlighten us.

Well if you wanted to make it more varied, you'd split the elongated portion of the body into three parts, the part that connects to the torso, the tail, the part in between. You could then have an extra middle and tail section, that can trade out.