Amnesty for the Illegals

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**Greebynog**

Ratbarf wrote:I would probably vote BNP if I was British, but thats more because I don't really like political correctness at all.... And they don't really seem to give a crap about that so I like that about them.

I'm glad you're not a member of the British electorate then. You think a lack of respect for basic politeness is more important than rampant racism? Good world view fella.

**Ratbarf**

Not necesarily, I don't consider it impolite to say Merry Christmas but my school board won't allow it.

**Cheese Elemental**

So let me get this straight, Ratbarf... You would vote for a Neo-Nazi government who would persecute homosexuals, blacks and Jews?

What kind of values are they teaching kids nowadays?

**garret**

okay know im serious
we have tried this before and it failed
okay we give the amnesty then what do we change immegration laws or do every 10 or 20 years we give amnesty so we dont have problems
illegal immegrants are a plague on our society and they must be dealt with accordingly
they take jobs from contractoers resturant workers and other american jobs
know alot of you say"they take jobs we dont want" thts true but they also take jobs from teens such as
1: cashiers
2: laborers
3 a gak load of stuff

**Fifty**

mcfly wrote:So Fifty, even in that large post, I didn't hear what you think. Should we say that all the illegal immigrants get amnesty, or not?

I am undecided about specifics. Broadly speaking though, my position lies with that of the last person whom I quoted, who wonders why being born in a certain place should give you more or less rights, opportunities and resonsibilities that someone else.

JohnHwangDD, I did go and look at "any website". I looked at 5 or 6. They gave me the information I reported, which differs from yours. That is why I asked for your source. I am not disputing that you found such data, but I, in an admittedly short internet search, did not. I figured you must know where your numbers come from, so it must be quicker to ask you than perform a rigourous search myself.

Ratbarf, I would suggest that out of petty-minded but grand-scale racism and political correctness, the latter is the lesser of two evils. I have no confidence in the main political parties. I either vote Green, where it is clear they cannot win and the "big three" are safe, purely to raise the profile of environmental issues, or, where necessary, I vote for the big parties to keep out exremists. I have never lived in an area where I could, or needed to, vote against the BNP. Last time, I voted against the odious George Galloway and his equally despicable Respect party, who purport to be a party that represents Islamic and other minority interests, but is actually just as unpleasant as the BNP. I can't remember who I voted for - it was whoever was most likely to beat him. Sadly I am still represented in parliament by this pillock.

http://www.georgegalloway.com/

**Destrado**

garret wrote:okay know im serious
we have tried this before and it failed
okay we give the amnesty then what do we change immegration laws or do every 10 or 20 years we give amnesty so we dont have problems
illegal immegrants are a plague on our society and they must be dealt with accordingly
they take jobs from contractoers resturant workers and other american jobs
know alot of you say"they take jobs we dont want" thts true but they also take jobs from teens such as
1: cashiers
2: laborers
3 a gak load of stuff

If they do the same job, or better, with more dedication or zeal because they know they can't afford to be fired, why shouldn't a boss hire them? I like how you say "american jobs"? A plague on the society? How about you look at the "citizens" who kill, steal, evade taxes, throw their trash in the middle of the street, in sum, are doing worse for your country than those illegal immigrants. Yet, stemming from the stories, clichés, etc you heard they are the worst kind of crap possible, even though it's just a stereotype. Is that your land you're stepping on? Two important facts here, your family probably immigrated too, and now I wonder how they'd fit under your classifications, and Adolf Hitler once preached the same as you did.

I understand they are a case for concern but the problem isn't only what you perceive as the negative in the situation. They are people, and just because some are criminals doesn't make them all criminals. For what it matters, I'm not against americans (even though you might think so), I'm against certain ways of thinking.

**JD21290**

That never happened.

I will personally bet you whatever sum of money you fancy, that that never happened. The BNP are daft fethwit racists, make no mistake.

So please care to explain how the BNP's votes are rising at a very high rate.

its due to more and more people getting pissed off with all the fething immagration problems.
now, if there was a reasonable way then sure, people would take it, but there isnt, so more and more people are tipping towards the BNP as a solution.

**Kilkrazy**

With reference specifically to the UK, it should be noted that there are over 400 million EU citizens who have the legal right to live and work in the UK, so worrying about a few thousand illegals from Morocco or Iraq is pretty pointless in regard to the overall issue.

The BNP would no doubt say they don't want the 2 million Euros here, but Britain has exported 4 million of our people to Euroland (according to figures given on Radio 4) so we are up on the good side of the deal.

With reference to illegal immigrants taking natives' jobs anywhere, it is the employers' fault for taking on the illegals. They do it because they know they can exploit the illegals for very low wages and fear no come-back. Employees who flout this part of the law are likely to flout other parts such as Health and Safety, and payment of taxes.

As long as some countries are miserable, crappy holes compared to others, people will want to get out of their rotten country and go somewhere better. The way to stop this is to help development in crappy countries and make them not crappy any more.

**mcfly**

Destrado wrote:
If they do the same job, or better, with more dedication or zeal because they know they can't afford to be fired, why shouldn't a boss hire them? I like how you say "american jobs"? A plague on the society? How about you look at the "citizens" who kill, steal, evade taxes, throw their trash in the middle of the street, in sum, are doing worse for your country than those illegal immigrants. Yet, stemming from the stories, clichés, etc you heard they are the worst kind of crap possible, even though it's just a stereotype. Is that your land you're stepping on? Two important facts here, your family probably immigrated too, and now I wonder how they'd fit under your classifications, and Adolf Hitler once preached the same as you did.

I understand they are a case for concern but the problem isn't only what you perceive as the negative in the situation. They are people, and just because some are criminals doesn't make them all criminals. For what it matters, I'm not against americans (even though you might think so), I'm against certain ways of thinking.

We actually hate all the citizens you kill steal and evade taxes and want to kick them out of the country too, because the prisons are starting to become overcrowded.

I see criminals who kill as worse than illegal immigrants, but I wouldn't mind deporting all of them to a tiny pacific island.

My great grandfather immigrated from Italy legally back in the early 1910's. He made enough money to become successful. So, the Italian side of my family did immigrate, but the difference is they did it the right way, the legal way, and they learned the language. And they had a cool last name. Turgiletto.

So they do fit under my classifications, and Hitler was a great speaker, and it never mattered what he said, it only mattered what he felt like doing. Just because he said something didn't mean he wanted it.

**Kilkrazy**

Mod:

We should keep off the topic of Hitler in this thread. He has no essential relevance to the death penalty.

**dietrich**

If you don't enforce your laws, why even have them on the books? The US government needs to either: 1) repeal most of the immigration laws and just let everyone in, or 2) figure out reasonable ways to enforce immigration. Nothing has been done about it, because people in Washington don't look at the long-picture, they look at the next election, and that's just human nature.

I don't support amnesty, because it devalues all the work that legal immigrants have done.

I wouldn't oppose increasing the numbers of legal immigrants from Latin America. Illegals in the US could even stay, but they'd count against these totals.

The problem is that if the US has an open border and lets anyone it, it creates a lot of problems. Criminals would come. The average wages paid would drop since there would be more people competing for jobs. So, we can't let everyone in. There needs to be a number established (and I don't know if that's 100 or 1,000 or 1,000,000) of immigrants allowed each year (which, there is), and it needs to be enforced. And illegals need to be deported.

Is it fair? Probably not. But, the US doesn't have to let anyone immigrate.

**Frazzled**

dietrich wrote:If you don't enforce your laws, why even have them on the books? The US government needs to either: 1) repeal most of the immigration laws and just let everyone in, or 2) figure out reasonable ways to enforce immigration. Nothing has been done about it, because people in Washington don't look at the long-picture, they look at the next election, and that's just human nature.

I don't support amnesty, because it devalues all the work that legal immigrants have done.

I wouldn't oppose increasing the numbers of legal immigrants from Latin America. Illegals in the US could even stay, but they'd count against these totals.

The problem is that if the US has an open border and lets anyone it, it creates a lot of problems. Criminals would come. The average wages paid would drop since there would be more people competing for jobs. So, we can't let everyone in. There needs to be a number established (and I don't know if that's 100 or 1,000 or 1,000,000) of immigrants allowed each year (which, there is), and it needs to be enforced. And illegals need to be deported.

Is it fair? Probably not. But, the US doesn't have to let anyone immigrate.

Criminals would come? Son look at th4e prison populations in California, Texas, and the other border states. They've been coming since Pancho Villa. El paso is turning into a war zone, and the feds intercepted messages from a Mexican drug cartel to start killing US cops who try to arrest them or seize their drugs.

**reds8n**

Ratbarf wrote:I would probably vote BNP if I was British, but thats more because I don't really like political correctness at all.... And they don't really seem to give a crap about that so I like that about them.

Then you're a racist idiot.

According to the BNP 2001 general election manifesto, “native Britons”, who they claim can only be white, would be given priority in the job market. “Non-whites” would instantly become second class citizens in Britain.

Any black person who commits a crime would also be thrown out of the country, even those who were born here.

Mixed race relationships would be outlawed.

Privately, the BNP leaders have continued to air their real political views. “All black people will be repatriated, even if they were born here”, BNP leader Nick Griffin told Wales on Sunday in 1996. “We must preserve the white race, because it has been responsible for all the good things in civilisation”.

According to party number two, Tony Lecomber, the preservation of the white race can be done through a racial eugenic programme.

The BNP supported ethnic cleansing in the Kosovan crisis. “The Serbs’ real crime isn’t the harshness with which they have expelled so many of the Albanian Muslims who having become the majority in the Kosovan heart of Serbia by a mixture of immigration, a high birth rate, and low level ethnic cleansing of the native Serbs… No! The real crime in the eyes of the powerful advocates of a multi-racial New World Order is for any people to demand the right to preserve their own identity and freedom”.

The BNP says they have no truck with “race hate”. Another outrageous lie. The jokes, caricatures, cartoons and articles depict black people as stupid, criminally minded and ugly. Time and again, BNP publications talk about the genetic superiority of the white race.

Several BNP members have put this racism into practice:

Former National Organiser Richard Edmonds was convicted for his part in a vicious bottle attack on a mixed race couple in a pub in East London 1993

BNP supporter Stuart Kerr was sentenced to 12 years imprisonment for firebombing an Asian shop in Chichester, Sussex

BNP leader Nick Griffin was convicted of incitement to racial hatred in April 1998

The BNP organiser for Waltham Forest, Alan Gould, was convicted of racially abusing people in a pub in 2000

Former BNP member David Copeland was sentenced to six life sentences after planting bombs in London. He wanted to start a race war.

On other occasions, the BNP has glorified racist attacks. In 1991, the BNP newspaper gloated after several BNP supporters stabbed an African immigrant at London Bridge station. The victim had his “kidney surgically removed”, the paper boasted. In the same year, the BNP leadership whipped up a racist riot in Bermondsey, London, and led an attack on an anti-racist meeting that was protesting against the BNP headquaters in Welling. Thirteen people needed hospital treatment.

A BNP presence has almost always culminated in “race hate”. When Derek Beackon was elected as a BNP councillor in Millwall, racist attacks in the area soared by 300%

Other "friends" of the leadership include William Pierce of "The Turner Diaries" fame, David DUke former grand wizard of the KKK, and innumerable other far right groups throughout the world.

Oh, they also deny the Holocaust happened and if it did then "they got what was coming to them".

Mein Kampf is my bible

When we get to power our opponents will be swept away like flies

both quotes from the BNP founder.

"Because they're against political correctness".

Or the quotes from one of their candiadtes, one Nik Erikson

I've never understood why so many men have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the feminazi myth machine into believing that rape is such a serious crime ... Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal.

To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched.

LOL @ rape !

**mcfly**

To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting that forcefeeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence. A woman would be more inconvenienced by having her handbag snatched.

LOL @ rape !

Everyone know rape is just s.. you didn't know you wanted at the moment.

**Mattlov**

If amnesty is given to illegal immigrants, I say the best solution is to move them into a tax bracket that is 2 steps ABOVE what they actually earn, to help offset all the time they have been living tax-free.

But I would much prefer to see them booted out of the country. Many of them are disrespectful and donkey-caves. They openly say crude and disgusting things about women because most assume you don't know Spanish. THAT really pisses me off.

And English should be made to be the US language. If you want to live here, be able to communicate with us, and read the proper documents you need to fill out.

**mcfly**

Mattlov wrote:If amnesty is given to illegal immigrants, I say the best solution is to move them into a tax bracket that is 2 steps ABOVE what they actually earn, to help offset all the time they have been living tax-free.

But I would much prefer to see them booted out of the country. Many of them are disrespectful and donkey-caves. They openly say crude and disgusting things about women because most assume you don't know Spanish. THAT really pisses me off.

And English should be made to be the US language. If you want to live here, be able to communicate with us, and read the proper documents you need to fill out.

QFT
A little while back, a radio station near me had a Mexican immigrant (legal) who worked at their station as an intern drive his car around and read the road signs. He misunderstood about half of them. It freaked me out to be driving in a very Mexican area every day, let me tell you.

**Mango**

1.Everyone on both sides of the argument needs to tone it down. You can emphatically disagree with someone without insulting everyone's culture, country, or beliefs. Name calling and cursing serve no purpose.

2. Illegal immigration is up to each country to determine for itself.
3. In my opinion, the problem is not immigration. It is illegal immigration.
4. Until we have control of the border, illegal immigration will continue.
5, One of the primary duties of any country is preserving its territorial integrity. Without that, it is hard to have a country.
6. when you have 20 million illegals, finding and deporting them is impossible, without the police or military being able to stop everyone and demand papers.
7. The problem I have with illegals is that they do not pay all taxes they should, and can even vote. If you are not a citizen, you should not vote. All it takes to register to vote in many places in the US is to get a driver's license. Which you do not have to prove citezenship to get. Then you can fill out a voter registration card on the spot. Then when you go to your polling location you show your voter registration card and you driver's license and you can vote.
8. The way around the illegals not paying taxes is just have a flat sales tax.
9. Most illegal immigrants are hard working. Let them stay and pay taxes and provide a path to ciezenship. But make them learn our language and culture. You want to be here? Fine, but you came here, we didn't go there, so you need to accept what you find here.
10. Goes back to anbother point. It is all moost until we gain control of the border to halt or at least dramatically slow the flood. Give us time to assimilate what we already have. If not, our culture will drown in the flood.

**sexiest_hero**

What about the tens of thousands of Americans who can't read and sign with x. OR the hundreds of thousands who drive drunk and kill every holiday. Does that scare you any less.

**mcfly**

sexiest_hero wrote:What about the tens of thousands of Americans who can't read and sign with x. OR the hundreds of thousands who drive drunk and kill every holiday. Does that scare you any less.

No, but I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about Illegal Immigrants.
They scare me just as much.

**Kilkrazy**

Mango wrote:1.Everyone on both sides of the argument needs to tone it down. You can emphatically disagree with someone without insulting everyone's culture, country, or beliefs. Name calling and cursing serve no purpose.

......

Well said, Mango!

**barlio**

Mango wrote:1.Everyone on both sides of the argument needs to tone it down. You can emphatically disagree with someone without insulting everyone's culture, country, or beliefs. Name calling and cursing serve no purpose.

2. Illegal immigration is up to each country to determine for itself.
3. In my opinion, the problem is not immigration. It is illegal immigration.
4. Until we have control of the border, illegal immigration will continue.
5, One of the primary duties of any country is preserving its territorial integrity. Without that, it is hard to have a country.
6. when you have 20 million illegals, finding and deporting them is impossible, without the police or military being able to stop everyone and demand papers.
7. The problem I have with illegals is that they do not pay all taxes they should, and can even vote. If you are not a citizen, you should not vote. All it takes to register to vote in many places in the US is to get a driver's license. Which you do not have to prove citezenship to get. Then you can fill out a voter registration card on the spot. Then when you go to your polling location you show your voter registration card and you driver's license and you can vote.
8. The way around the illegals not paying taxes is just have a flat sales tax.
9. Most illegal immigrants are hard working. Let them stay and pay taxes and provide a path to ciezenship. But make them learn our language and culture. You want to be here? Fine, but you came here, we didn't go there, so you need to accept what you find here.
10. Goes back to anbother point. It is all moost until we gain control of the border to halt or at least dramatically slow the flood. Give us time to assimilate what we already have. If not, our culture will drown in the flood.

2. I don't believe anybody is arguing against legal immigration.
5. It's not the primary duty, but it should be (maybe I'm reading that wrong).
8. Unfortunately I don't think the flat tax will every fly.
9. I don't believe anybody denies this, but being in a country illegally should negate any future benefits.

**Kilkrazy**

barlio wrote:

2. I don't believe anybody is arguing against legal immigration.
5. It's not the primary duty, but it should be (maybe I'm reading that wrong).
8. Unfortunately I don't think the flat tax will every fly.
9. I don't believe anybody denies this, but being in a country illegally should negate any future benefits.

There would seem to be a problem regarding the large number of illegal immigrants. Even if it were possible to round them all up, deporting them would be a major logistical effort. Also, aren't children born in the USA automatically citizens? What happens to the children of illegal immigrants?

**mcfly**

Kilkrazy wrote:
barlio wrote:

2. I don't believe anybody is arguing against legal immigration.
5. It's not the primary duty, but it should be (maybe I'm reading that wrong).
8. Unfortunately I don't think the flat tax will every fly.
9. I don't believe anybody denies this, but being in a country illegally should negate any future benefits.

There would seem to be a problem regarding the large number of illegal immigrants. Even if it were possible to round them all up, deporting them would be a major logistical effort. Also, aren't children born in the USA automatically citizens? What happens to the children of illegal immigrants?

We change the law and kick them out too.

**barlio**

Didn't think of that. Geez Kilkrazy you are racking my brain today.

They have the legal right to stay, but if they are too young and the parents don't want to take them home with them, than I would imagine they are abandoned or they stay with family in the states. It's wrong on so many levels, but I would have to believe that the parents know the risk going in. I'm probably reaching here, but since I don't know anybody in this situation I have no reasonable input into the scenario.

**barlio**

mcfly wrote:We change the law and kick them out too.

Fine in theory, but too hamfisted and morally wrong to do so. It's a mighty slippery slope when you want to change the law to allow the government to kick out legal citizens. I say this because what if the child involved is a product of an illegal immigrant and a legal citizen? Do you just roll the dice on them?

**JD21290**

Then you're a racist idiot.

Wow, resulting to petty name calling.
That would be slander as you have no valid proof he is a racist atall.

As for me, i dare anyone to try and call me a racist

lets face it, this argument will get nowhere as everyone has thier own views.
none of these are either right or wrong.

the main problem with it is keeping track of all of them, over here they have lost track ages ago, and now they cant even stab a guess at how many people are living here illegally.

**Mango**

Mcfly,
The only problem with that is you can't make laws retroactive. However, it would be ok to pass a law that states if you are here illegally, then your children are illegal also. That however would make all the children born prior to that, citizens, since by current law, they already are.

barlio, you did misread point 5. It said one of the primary duties. Not the primary duty.

**dietrich**

Frazzled wrote:Criminals would come? Son look at th4e prison populations in California, Texas, and the other border states.

I do know that. My point was that the US can't have an open border policy, and that it would create more problems not less problems. Partially because a lot of people coming across would be criminals, just like the Cubans that got asylum in the (iirc) 1970's. Right now, the criminals at least have to work (a little) to get into the US.

The US is the wonderful land of opportunity, but if everyone moves here, it won't be. While it's nice and ideal to think that we should shelter everyone, it's just not possible or practical. If we try to, the whole system fails. Yet, the US (as a whole) doesn't take the illegal immigration situation seriously.

**mcfly**

Mango wrote:Mcfly,
The only problem with that is you can't make laws retroactive. However, it would be ok to pass a law that states if you are here illegally, then your children are illegal also. That however would make all the children born prior to that, citizens, since by current law, they already are.

That would work then. The rest of them that were born previously either get shunted into foster care or go with their parents.

With the US census coming up, do we could illegal immigrants or only people with social security numbers?

**reds8n**

JD21290 wrote:
Then you're a racist idiot.

Wow, resulting to petty name calling.
That would be slander as you have no valid proof he is a racist atall.

Other than him expressing support for a legally acknowledged racist and anti Semitic "political" party or as well as ?

As for me, i dare anyone to try and call me a racist

... and the prize is ....?

lets face it, this argument will get nowhere as everyone has their own views.

Agreed with regards to people having their own views.

none of these are either right or wrong.

HAHAHAHAHAH... yeah, you tell yourself that. The Holocaust ? Urban myth.

I agree that the USA, indeed any country, cannot just let all and sundry into their borders with no regard or checks......

,,sign of the times more than anything. But the amount of cod racism that gets hidden behind the " I'm not racist... BUT......" is pathetic.