Amnesty for the Illegals

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**mcfly**

So, kinda old news, but he's still gonna try to get all the Illegal Immigrants amnesty.

One of the greatest disappointments expressed by former President George W. Bush was his inability to provide amnesty for tens of millions of illegal aliens. But as is so often the case, the departure of one Presidential administration and the advent of another Presidential administration seldom means great change, loquacious rhetoric by the current President notwithstanding. The plan to provide amnesty for illegal aliens is a classic case in point.

President Barack Obama is determined to succeed where G.W. Bush failed. According to many published reports, he fully intends to grant amnesty to tens of millions of illegal aliens. In fact, granting amnesty to illegal aliens is on Obama's short list of priorities. That short list includes the nationalization of America's financial systems, the nationalization of America's healthcare and energy systems, expanding the wars in the Middle East, strengthening and increasing global agreements and associations, gun control (perhaps using international treaties where congressional legislation has failed), and amnesty to illegal aliens.

Watch for Obama to make a full-court press for an amnesty proposal next month. He has already appointed working groups to study strategies. Administration sources have said Obama wants amnesty legislation on his desk by this fall at the latest.

One way Obama is preparing the path for amnesty is contained in the massive stimulus bill already passed by Congress and signed into law. According to USA Today, "Tens of thousands of jobs created by the economic stimulus law could end up filled by illegal immigrants, particularly in big states such as California where undocumented workers are heavily represented in construction, experts on both sides of the issue say.

"Studies by two conservative think tanks estimate immigrants in the United States illegally could take 300,000 construction jobs, or 15% of the 2 million jobs that new taxpayer-financed projects are predicted to create."

What both Presidents Bush and Obama (and John McCain, too) refuse to acknowledge is the devastating effects that illegal immigration inflicts upon the overall health and safety of the people of United States. In strict financial terms, the numbers are staggering.

Here's the link http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin506.htm
I for one find it terrible.

**Frazzled**

Seal the borders completely, put them in the back of the immigration train timeline, deport the criminals, make 2 years of civics in economics/free enterprise/US voting and civic duty and then I'm all for it. The education should be a requirement of any person seeking citizenship. Thats a hard working group of mofos and just the right stuff for US citizens.

Or just annex Mexico as ten territories and continue to keep that border sealed like the Mexican army has currently. Sends some girl scout troops north to take the tar sands and its happy days here again baby.

Either way we need fine telenovellas. Ay Maria!

**barlio**

Unfortunately it is way too late to have a reasonable solution to illegal immigration. I think that giving amnesty will do nothing, but further increase the flow.

If illegal immigrants are really going to get near 15% of the "new" jobs then we're doing nothing but setting ourselves up for future pain. If they think that amnesty would make up for giving away the jobs to now "legal" immigrants than they have another thing coming.

I don't have a problem at with people coming to America. I live in an area that is in need of some serious culture, but if you're going to do it the wrong way I will never support you.

Or if they were really smart they would follow my idea and make Illegal immigration a Game Show.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/237477.page#683622

**JohnHwangDD**

Amnesty? No. Full deportation.

**Ratbarf**

Build a wall along the US Mesico Border with checkpoints for crossing, then have volunteers man the walls. Put the wall ten metres into US soil and a big sign that says, "Anyone who crosses this line will be shot by a bunch of angry Texans. May god have mercy on your poor dumbass soul." I think that would work. Oh and put lots of landmines in that no man zone too, Berlin wall in Texas for the win!

**garret**

land mines nuff said

**Cheese Elemental**

Don't people have the basic right to seek asylum? The US is one of the biggest and most successful nations on earth. Garrett, it's comments like yours that display the base stupidity and stubborness of American citizens when it comes to sharing your spacious country. It's a free world, guys. Learn to share.

**JohnHwangDD**

NO problemo.

We'll just do like the Brits, and ship the undesirables to Oz...

**garret**

im all for immegrant just not illegals
and are you calling me stupid
your the one who cant spell a name thats right infront of you

**Cheese Elemental**

One typo does not make a fool.

I'm saying that your views are stupid. If you don't have anything serious or helpful to contribute to the discussion, keep your damn mouth shut. Saying "Uh, yeah, I think we should kill anyone who comes into our country without the people's permission." is a pointless argument that simply reflects foolish views.

Now; Australia has hundreds of people locked up in detentions centers. We'd gladly let them into the country, but the problem that during the John Howard years, the government was undeniably racist, and once Kevin Rudd became the PM, the GFC started. Right no, the government (and the people as well) are worried that all our jobs will go to the immigrants who would work for cheap labor.

**JohnHwangDD**

So if Oz is worried about being overrun by immigrants, why should the US have to suck it up?

We're already stuck with at least 20 Million illegals, and I'm sure amnesty would bump that to 25 or 30.

But as Oz has the answers, why don't you take them?

**Cheese Elemental**

I already told you; the government is worried they'll take jobs that our citizens need. And then there's the issue of space. Not much of Australia is habitable, so we'd have to build completely new towns just to hold them.

**Ratbarf**

Now; Australia has hundreds of people locked up in detentions centers. We'd gladly let them into the country, but the problem that during the John Howard years, the government was undeniably racist, and once Kevin Rudd became the PM, the GFC started. Right no, the government (and the people as well) are worried that all our jobs will go to the immigrants who would work for cheap labor.

So why does America not have the right to do the same? If a person wishes to seek asylum they should do it through the proper legal means. Jumping a fence in Mexico is a legal means of entry into the United States and they should be told to GTFO.

**mcfly**

Also, for Australia and the UK and all these other countries, they are islands essentially, and are hard to get into. In America, you just walk around a fence and you're in. It's so easy, that all the Mexicans that want to risk it can get in easily, so while you have hundreds in prison, we have millions just walking around free to do whatever they want, and not pay taxes, and get free money from the government for their kids born in the USA.

**Cheese Elemental**

When people immigrate illegally, they're usually running from something. Isn't it the job, no, the duty of the greater nations to shelter unfortunates?

**JohnHwangDD**

@Cheese: Oz first.

**mcfly**

Cheese Elemental wrote:When people immigrate illegally, they're usually running from something. Isn't it the job, no, the duty of the greater nations to shelter unfortunates?

No. The duty of the greater nations is to help their citizens still be greater than everyone else. Not to let any poor shmuck with a sob story get in and not pay taxes. Heck, we don't even know any of these peoples records. All the immigrants could be murderers for all we know.

**Cheese Elemental**

Bah, your nation is like that pale kid who won't go outside. Accept muliculturalism.

**Ratbarf**

When people immigrate illegally, they're usually running from something. Isn't it the job, no, the duty of the greater nations to shelter unfortunates?

Nope. Its their job to protect and project the interest of the citizens that reside within the country. If they want to kick out all of the Mexicans than thats their perogative. In my opinion though illegal aliens should be dealt with like real aliens. Frozen and locked up in area 51.

**Ratbarf**

Accept muliculturalism.

Multiculturism is a peice of gak.

**mcfly**

Cheese Elemental wrote:Bah, your nation is like that pale kid who won't go outside. Accept muliculturalism.

Oh, believe me, America is multicultural. You leave my house and you can go to any Chinese food restaurant, Mexican food restaurant, Japanese steakhouse restaurant, Medieval Times restaurant, Cuban food restaurant, Indian food restaurant, Thai food restaurant, a restaurant that sells fish and chips, or bbq restaurant. Heck, foodwise, we're probably the most multicultural country in the world.

**JohnHwangDD**

So basically, if I have the argument right:

- America is bad because they won't do what Australia refuses to do

Riight...

**Cheese Elemental**

When people are immigrating illegally, they're usually fleeing from poor conditions and tyrannical governments. The great nations need to be helping, not striving to make themselves better than they already are. You know over a billion people in the world have no clean drinking water, and the western world could easily provide it?

But they don't, because they're too busy developing next-generation weapons and technology that we don't really need.

**Cheese Elemental**

JohnHwangDD wrote:So basically, if I have the argument right:

- America is bad because they won't do what Australia refuses to do

Riight...

I didn't say that. I said that America is intolerant of people in need. Heck, most of the western world is. It's a flaw of humanity.

**mcfly**

Cheese Elemental wrote:When people are immigrating illegally, they're usually fleeing from poor conditions and tyrannical governments. The great nations need to be helping, not striving to make themselves better than they already are. You know over a billion people in the world have no clean drinking water, and the western world could easily provide it?

But they don't, because they're too busy developing next-generation weapons and technology that we don't really need.

Yeah, Australia isn't part of the Western world, but why aren't ya'll saving the world.

**Ghost in the Darkness**

Great yet another one of those America bashing threads. I come to the OT forum to waste time not to have to defend my country from foreigners who I doubt have even been in this country, and if they have been I doubt they saw the problems we have with illegal immigration.

Why they shouldn't have amnesty:
1. They don't pay taxes, yet use the school system and heathcare that taxes help pay for. This results in many hospitals going bankrupt when they can no longer afford to pay their bills. This also results in horible overcrowded schools, which decreases the value of the learning.
2. They don't speak ENGLISH. That is our country's language speak it or GTFO.
3. They don't have car insurance, so when they hit you you get screwed by your insurance and your rates go up.
4. They come here pregnant and have a baby, which for some reason is an american citizen so they get to stay here and continue to mooch.
5. They take plenty of jobs away from people. You might say that americans don't want them in the first place. But there is horrible competition for summer jobs for teenagers when the boss can hire people for less and work them harder.
6. The crime rate, a good portion of the jail population along the border are illegal mexican immigrants.
7. The drug problem, they smuggle in illegal drugs which cause so many problems here in the US.

**Ghost in the Darkness**

So if we are intolerant of people in need, what the feth is Australia doing about these helpless people all around the world. And then why don't you let your illegal immigrants out of jail?

**JohnHwangDD**

No. They're too busy distributing wealth from young to old, and from well to sick, along with mortgaging our future by running enormous deficits.

At least, if the US budget is anything to go by.

The largest line items in the US budget cover social welfare:
- Social Security ($700B)
- Mecicare / Medicaid ($750B)
Each of these are larger than all Defense spending combined.

- national debt ($160B)

When you look at "Defense", new weapons is very small.

**Cheese Elemental**

mcfly wrote:
Cheese Elemental wrote:When people are immigrating illegally, they're usually fleeing from poor conditions and tyrannical governments. The great nations need to be helping, not striving to make themselves better than they already are. You know over a billion people in the world have no clean drinking water, and the western world could easily provide it?

But they don't, because they're too busy developing next-generation weapons and technology that we don't really need.

Yeah, Australia isn't part of the Western world, but why aren't ya'll saving the world.

Australia is part of the Western world, and don't you understand that I'm not defending my country.
So, you think these people who suffer under harsh conditions should be left outside to die while the 'great nations' ascend further?

**Ratbarf**

You know over a billion people in the world have no clean drinking water, and the western world could easily provide it?

For some reason I don't think dragging Iceburgs half way across the world is all that easy.

So, you think these people who suffer under harsh conditions should be left outside to die while the 'great nations' ascend further?

Yep, great nations are great because the people make them so. If they want to be like us let them claw their way out of the shithole they live in, you don't become great by letting a bunch of people who have no right to be in your country into your country. If we want them here we will let them know when they ask. If we don't we will tell them to GTFO.