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But the amount of cod racism that gets hidden behind the " I'm not racist... BUT......" is pathetic.

Oh, so blacks are not more likely to committ crimes and go to jail for it?

mcfly wrote:

But the amount of cod racism that gets hidden behind the " I'm not racist... BUT......" is pathetic.

Oh, so blacks are not more likely to committ crimes and go to jail for it?

I would say that poor people are, regardless of race, more likely to get caught and be sent to prison. The ethnic breakdown of such being dependent upon the ethnic mix and social mobility of the country in which you live.

Black people are more likely to be poor. Poor people commit more crime. That middle step is important.

garret wrote:okay know im serious
we have tried this before and it failed
okay we give the amnesty then what do we change immegration laws or do every 10 or 20 years we give amnesty so we dont have problems
illegal immegrants are a plague on our society and they must be dealt with accordingly
they take jobs from contractoers resturant workers and other american jobs
know alot of you say"they take jobs we dont want" thts true but they also take jobs from teens such as
1: cashiers
2: laborers
3 a gak load of stuff

we have tried this before and it failed

Yep, tried to keep out the germans. Then the Irish. Then the ....you get the idea I hope. And this happened before we had offical immigration limits. America does best as an open country, otherwise whe are like the French.

okay we give the amnesty then what do we change immegration laws or do every 10 or 20 years we give amnesty so we dont have problems

The best and most productive years of this country were when we had no immigration laws. They do not work , NEVER HAD AND NEVER WILL.

illegal immegrants are a plague on our society and they must be dealt with accordingly

That is almost a direct quote from the german gentleman that cost us over 20 million lives in the worst war in human history within the lifetime of many still here. You obviously have led a shelted and foolish life.

They take jobs from contract restraunt workers and other American jobs SIC

My wife and I hired a forign worker for our restraunt. We first paid the state and federal government for them to place ads in the local papers for the 5 closest towns for 6 months each, add it up, a year of searching for job applicants. NO AMERICANS contacted the two government offices for the job during the entire year because of the work hours. A wise man keeps his mouth shut if he does not know what the truth is, a fool opens his and proves it.

know alot of you say"they take jobs we dont want" thts true but they also take jobs from teens such as
1: cashiers
2: laborers
3 a gak load of stuff

Maybe you missed this somewhere, number of menial labor jobs is greater than the number of American teenagers that will work in them. Show me a town anywhere in American even in these bad times where you can find a McDonalds with out a Help Wanted sign for the third shift.

Last - I spent over 20 years serving at the sharp end of the stick in the army, the part where a lot of folks kill or get killed, not the logistics side if you get my drift. I spent many years in little dirt bag counties keeping lousy governments in place like we are doing now elsewhere.

Those immigrants come here, most illegally because there is not a better country for freedom anywhere else in the world and it is that way because we are a nation of immigrants.
When we shut off that flow this counrty will stagnate.
By the way those who become citizens take a test most native born citizens can not pass and based on the comments I have seen here have a better grasp of both the Constitution and the laws of this country then some who have posted.

Seeing as I have fought for and bled for this country I would like to think some would value my thoughts over someone who was born an American and has never done anything for his country other than whine about those other people and quote that monster from Germany.

You do know a large chunk of the combat arms part of out army is Latino, first or second generation and that there are currently several thousand immigrants earning accelerated citizenship by serving in the military in the Crack and the sandbox next to it?

Shame on you.

This thread.
Wow. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Amnesty done properly could be a good idea. I think it probably won't be done properly and will lead to a lot of headaches and probably more bitterness.

Cheese Elemental: If you want people to listen to you, it's helpful to keep your tone more neutral.

mcfly wrote:
We actually hate all the citizens you kill steal and evade taxes and want to kick them out of the country too, because the prisons are starting to become overcrowded.

I see criminals who kill as worse than illegal immigrants, but I wouldn't mind deporting all of them to a tiny pacific island.

My great grandfather immigrated from Italy legally back in the early 1910's. He made enough money to become successful. So, the Italian side of my family did immigrate, but the difference is they did it the right way, the legal way, and they learned the language. And they had a cool last name. Turgiletto.

So they do fit under my classifications, and Hitler was a great speaker, and it never mattered what he said, it only mattered what he felt like doing. Just because he said something didn't mean he wanted it.

He was a great speaker for the germans, because they felt immigrants were taking their jobs, and they were humilliated in the Versailles treaty if I'm not mistaken.

As for your great grandfather being an italian immigrant, legal or not, I cannot verify, but I won't dispute. Even if he was illegal he probably only wanted to make things better for his family, not rob/hurt/kill anyone. But I don't think I need to go on any further, someone else has done it better than I ever could.

Black people are more likely to be poor. Poor people commit more crime. That middle step is important.

I didn't give a reason for it. I just said, they committ more crime.
Everybody doesn't like somebody. Just saying THATS RACIST!!! OMGWTFBBQSAUCE doesn't help anyone. I wish that everyone wasn't racist, but that won't happen till they stop calling the race card all the time. Uber-Femenists do the same thing, only its Sexist.

What I'm saying is, like it or not, more blacks committ crime than white people. I know about the poor issue and the reasons historically, but they do. Its a fact. Racism is stupid. But it exists, and you can't escape it, because you're racist too, even if you don't think so.

mcfly wrote:
What I'm saying is, like it or not, more blacks committ crime than white people.

This may or may not be true, and ignores a variety of factors involved in the generation of crimes of different types.

The point is that to assume that black people commit more crimes because they are black is racist.

As well say that practically all financial crime is done by white people, so obviously white people are financial criminals by nature.

The point is that to assume that black people commit more crimes because they are black is racist.

Yes, and that's why I'm not racist. I understand the reasons for it.

mcfly wrote:

The point is that to assume that black people commit more crimes because they are black is racist.

Yes, and that's why I'm not racist. I understand the reasons for it.

Good.

Of course, it's disputable that black people actually commit more crimes, but let's not get into that now because it's past my bedtime.

Reds8n: Someones opinion can never be wrong, no one has the power to judge that.
an opinion is simply a certain persons point of view on a subject.

Other than him expressing support for a legally acknowledged racist and anti Semitic "political" party or as well as ?

So, he supports it, he didnt say he is 100% in agreement with them.
big difference there.
and you are hardly capable of judging a person simply by a single post.

by the seems of it you are one of these people who are never wrong (in thier own eyes)
anyone who does not agree with them is an "idiot" or a "racist"

I wish that everyone wasn't racist, but that won't happen till they stop calling the race card all the time. Uber-Femenists do the same thing, only its Sexist.

We have a fething winner!
someone with working eyes is here at last

So let me get this straight, Ratbarf... You would vote for a Neo-Nazi government who would persecute homosexuals, blacks and Jews?

What kind of values are they teaching kids nowadays?

Actually I came up with that value system all on my own. My values come from several reasons but I would rather vote for a party that is closer to my personal views than a party that is not. The truth be told I would most likely vote for the Tory's if given the actual decision. But I do indeed like some aspects of the BNP. I may not agree with all of their policies and statements but who actually does with any political party?

Ratbarf, I would suggest that out of petty-minded but grand-scale racism and political correctness, the latter is the lesser of two evils.

I don't really think so. The problem with political correctness is that is a form of racism. My culture is being surpressed, simply because it may be found somewhat offensive to people from another culture who came here and want that culture to continue. What about my culture? Do I have no right to put up a big sign that says Merry Christmas, in a country that is Christian in tradition and background? I may not be a true Christian, but I still celebrate Christmas. Why? My parents did it, my grandparents did it, and their grandparents before them. And they lived here. I have no issue with a Jewish family putting up a bid happy Hanukah banner infront of their house. Nor do I have an issue with a Merry Ramadan, or something similar. Political correctness is just another form of discrimination.

We should keep off the topic of Hitler in this thread. He has no essential relevance to the death penalty.

I think you may have gotten the wrong thread there as this is the illegal immigration thread.

but let's not get into that now because it's past my bedtime.

This is one problem with world spanning internet forums. If I want to have a running conversation/argument with you guys I have to either get up really early or stay up really late. Frankly it cuts down on my responses as by the time I am available to provide a decent rebuttle the thread has moved on.

Ratbarf, my thoughts follow your words here

out of all of the parties they all have something half decent, then loads of gak, just seems BNP has more good stuff in it than the rest.
now, you can shout racist all you want, but votes for the BNP are on the rise big time as more and more people get pissed off with things.


also on a note here, the KKK pretty much ran america at one point, yet only to destroy themselves thanks to a murder and rape.
so, give the BNP a shot, if it ends badly, start over, we seem to be doing alot of that anyway.

I think you may have gotten the wrong thread there as this is the illegal immigration thread.

missed that one

just seems BNP has more good stuff in it than the rest.

By the looks of it they also have a lot of the gak too lol.

yea, but all parties have gak, i rather take one with more good stuff and more gak than just pure gak.

Wow, just wow. You are seriously advocating a party whose express intent is for an all-white Britain? That denies the Holocaust? That incites racial hatred, homophobia and violence?

I just lost a lot of respect for you.

Don't worry, I don't really care if you respect me nor do I really care if I respect you. I'll try not to insult you by any means, but I don't really give a tasty rat's ass.

Fifty wrote:JohnHwangDD, I did go and look at "any website". I looked at 5 or 6. They gave me the information I reported, which differs from yours. That is why I asked for your source. I am not disputing that you found such data, but I, in an admittedly short internet search, did not. I figured you must know where your numbers come from, so it must be quicker to ask you than perform a rigourous search myself.

Sorry, it never crossed my mind that the official US Budget could be reported differently.

Wiki US Budget (2010):
$695 billion - Social Security = "700B"

$453 billion - Medicare
$290 billion - Medicaid = "750B"

$164 billion - Interest = "160B"


Then I pull for new / better ways to kill people

Wiki Defense Budget (2009):
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.6 Bil. = "80B"

Sorry for the confusion.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Fifty wrote:JohnHwangDD, I did go and look at "any website". I looked at 5 or 6. They gave me the information I reported, which differs from yours. That is why I asked for your source. I am not disputing that you found such data, but I, in an admittedly short internet search, did not. I figured you must know where your numbers come from, so it must be quicker to ask you than perform a rigourous search myself.

Sorry, it never crossed my mind that the official US Budget could be reported differently.

Wiki US Budget (2010):
$695 billion - Social Security = "700B"

$453 billion - Medicare
$290 billion - Medicaid = "750B"

$164 billion - Interest = "160B"


Then I pull for new / better ways to kill people

Wiki Defense Budget (2009):
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.6 Bil. = "80B"

Sorry for the confusion.

Using wiki as a reference for anything is not the smartest move. Try a more reputable source. Like the Congressional Budget office. Or any other site ending with .gov

Extremists always fare better when people are desperate. That's why the BNP gain more votes. That and the fact that most of the crap people read in britain is incredibly right wing.

Cheese Elemental wrote:When people immigrate illegally, they're usually running from something. Isn't it the job, no, the duty of the greater nations to shelter unfortunates?

Your premise for illegal immigration is flawed. The illegal immigrants that I and my Mexican co-workers deal with are running toward hand-outs and freebies. Why can they not stay in their own country and try to make things better there? The fact that they evade our laws, and our tax systems, shows that they are not here to evade persecution, but to collect ill gotten gains. Tryin to dress illegal immigrants in the nobel robes of asylum seekers is a hysterical grasp at a straw that isnt there.

It is the duty of the United States to give people who choose to operate under the laws of this nation the freedom to make or break themselves. Some people cannot handle this freedom; since inherent in the freedom of self-determination is the freedom to cock your life up royally with a twist and half-gainer. Those who choose to operate outside of the law should get the boot.

If someone comes into your store and wants to buy something, it is your duty (albeit not a legal one in any sense) from a capitalist sense to sell. You dont have to, but that IS why you have a store in the first place. If someone comes into your store and steals your product, is it your duty to give them that product for free or even at a reduced price? As a "greater" person (otherwise why would they be stealing in the first place?? and lets not kneel to the mental defect angle, it's beneath you), is it not your duty to shelter that unfortunate?

I didn't think so.

I welcome anyone who does it right. I welcome anyone who comes over here within the structure and framework of our laws. We have ways for people to do it; and people do it all the time. Come on over, work, pay taxes like I do to support the nation you now call home so that it stays as nice a place as you initially found it, and spend your money in local businesses to grow the economy.

I thought social provision in the US was very low compared to European countries. For example, isn't it true that unemployment benefits only last for six months, or something, then you are cut loose.

I'm not in favour of illegal immigration. I'm saying I don't understand the objections to it on the grounds that the illegal immigrants suck up all the jobs and benefits due to citizens and legal migrants, because I don't understand how that can work.

How do illegals manage to tap any provision there is, when it depends on registering for a social security number, which enables the government to track you, tax you and so on?

JD21290 wrote:Reds8n: Someones opinion can never be wrong, no one has the power to judge that.
an opinion is simply a certain persons point of view on a subject.

Rubbish.

So the earth is flat then is it ? Or the jews do control the media? Or all americans are fat ?

Of course someone's opinion can be wrong. You appear to be confusing the difference between moral judgements and facts.

reds8n wrote:

Of course someone's opinion can be wrong. You appear to be confusing the difference between moral judgements and facts.

you know I always thought that was some kind of "clerical" error. I agree with reds8n in that an "opinion" can be wrong, but does it just cease to be an opinion when someone's opinion is just completely divorced form reality? How related to reality does an persons opinion have to be in order to "count" or "be valid"?

I just figure when someone says "your opinion is wrong", it's their shorthand way of saying "your opinion either has no rationale behind it or the rationale behind it is illogical".

(Assuming it's not a statement that doesn't require a rationale, such as "I like strawberries".)

There are two sorts of opinion, the "I like strawberries" type and the Doctor's "In view of your symptoms and test results my opinion is that you have Diabetes however I will send you to the consultant for it to be confirmed."

People are prone to making "strawberries' type statements based on emotion and justifying them with a bunch of reasoning, which may or may not be spurious or wrong.

But what if those strawberries are actually potatoes yet the eater percieves them as strawberries? Does that not mean that his opinion is wrong? Or is it right, as he believes that the potatoes he likes are strawberries and that remains his reality.

A fact is simply the opinion that is held by the largest group of people. To quote Goebbels, if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.

Ratbarf wrote:But what if those strawberries are actually potatoes yet the eater percieves them as strawberries? Does that not mean that his opinion is wrong? Or is it right, as he believes that the potatoes he likes are strawberries and that remains his reality.

A fact is simply the opinion that is held by the largest group of people. To quote Goebbels, if you tell a lie enough it becomes the truth.

Actually, the potatoes are just genetically modified strawberries. So he's both right and wrong.