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Greebynog wrote:Independant music's golden age was from about 1977-1982.

Two words for you: Elephant Six. They're a music collective located out of Athens, Georgia. They've given us everyone from Apples in Stereo, to Neutral Milk Hotel to Of Montreal. Independent music is alive and well.

I'd never dispute it's alive and well, it's just that was the zenith.

Zenith? Do you mean in terms of popularity or artistic quality?

Artistic quality really, of course it's personal opinion, but bands like Joy Division, Orange Juice, Delta 5, The Smiths (formed in 1982, might have to extend the dates a little to accomodate them), Gang of Four, The Mekons, DEVO, Public Image Ltd, The Slits, Wire, XTC, The Pop Group, The Fire Engines et al were making incredible music at that time.

Blue Monday, the biggest selling twelve-inch of all time was recorded in 1982, so I guess in terms of popularity too!

The combined musical taste of today's yoof could fit into a cocktail strainer - with room for the booze.

Jonas bros should be fed into a woodchipper - head first, and ironically, that would probably sound better, too. Much of the music listened to by the kids sounds crap to older people - this is the way of things. My parents hated my music, as I hated theirs.

I used to work with a girl who thought that the refrain behind RiHanna's "SOS" was original, until I told her that no, it was sampled from an 80's COVER of a 60s song (Tainted love).

Some people are just oxygen thieves, what can I say?

barlio wrote:

Greebynog wrote:Barlio, you don't think people will remember Biggie, Tupac, Wu Tang, Afrikka Bambaata, Public Enemy and NWA in 20 years?

Oh yes they will each of these are pioneers in their own right. They have had an impact on modern culture and music. How many current rappers started just because they heard their music? I'm not denying rap (or its popularity) I'm just saying that the airwaves are over saturated with crap.

Teh real pioneers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_a_Black_Hat

Seriously? Did you just link that?

AWESOME-SAUCE.

I love that movie, but DESPISE rap and hip-hop.

I need to find that on DVD...

I'm sorry, but I don't think the quality has changed. Just the aesthetic. Listen to Neutral Milk Hotel's Aeroplane Over the Sea. Or Animal collective's Strawberry Jam, or just about anything from Of Montreal. I could name about fifty other bands from the last fifteen years to now who are worth listening to.

This calls for a Sister Wendy Quote: "Art changes, but it does not get any better."

One of the few modern artists I enjoy, it's more regea then rap though.

BloodofOrks wrote:I'm sorry, but I don't think the quality has changed. Just the aesthetic. Listen to Neutral Milk Hotel's Aeroplane Over the Sea. Or Animal collective's Strawberry Jam, or just about anything from Of Montreal. I could name about fifty other bands from the last fifteen years to now who are worth listening to.

This calls for a Sister Wendy Quote: "Art changes, but it does not get any better."

With music though I think the quality does change. I know the bands you've mentioned, I've seen Animal Collective live, but I think we're in a musical down point at the moment. I belive in Tony Wilson's 'double helix' model of music. As one movement falls another rises, I think we're at that crosspoint now, with nothing hugely interesting about.

I tend to disagree. The Decemberist's latest album, The Hazards of Love, has some of the best lyrics of any album I've ever heard and the songs are so damn catchy. Mastodon's Crack the Skye is a great example of sludge metal turned prog rock. Music isn't in a slump, you just have to dig to find some of the gems.

Aeroplane Over the Sea is a genius album.

NEVER argue with dumb people.
They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

youbedead wrote:


One of the few modern artists I enjoy, it's more regea then rap though.

I forgot about them. I think they are pretty good.

Music is a matter of taste. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, or know it, doesn't make them stupid.

Da Boss wrote:Music is a matter of taste. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, or know it, doesn't make them stupid.

Maybe not personally. but some music is stupid.
Just now I'm listening to the local jazz station and they are playing some Rufus Harley.
Jazz and bagpipes is stupid.

Someone somewhere must like it.

I'm sure they do.

I still like Renaldo and the Loaf's "Music For Swinging Larvae". The music is still stupid after all these years.

Da Boss wrote:Music is a matter of taste. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, or know it, doesn't make them stupid.

When music, or any other art, is made without thought, and consumed without thought, both the artist and the consumer are stupid. Everything else is aesthetics, but what matters more than aesthetics?

I thought Plato said aesthetics didn't exist?

Greebynog wrote:

Da Boss wrote:Music is a matter of taste. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, or know it, doesn't make them stupid.

When music, or any other art, is made without thought, and consumed without thought, both the artist and the consumer are stupid. Everything else is aesthetics, but what matters more than aesthetics?

I strongly disagree.

Zip Napalm wrote:I thought Plato said aesthetics didn't exist?

Plato also frowned on humor. I wouldn't put too much trust in the ancient Greek's ideas about art. We've come a long way since then.

BloodofOrks wrote:

Zip Napalm wrote:I thought Plato said aesthetics didn't exist?

Plato also frowned on humor. I wouldn't put too much trust in the ancient Greek's ideas about art. We've come a long way since then.

So both us would be in Plato's doghouse, so to speak?

One would assume.