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Ratbarf wrote:

GW has never lowered prices,

They lowered them in 2007 in Canada because we could simply walk across the border to the states and buy them 30% off at retail. At discount it was more like 45% what we had to pay here. It was atrocious. Now we pay about 5-7% more I think when you take the exchange rate into play. Though thats the only time I have ever seen them lower prices, and that really ticked off my not so FLGS because he had to sell stuff at a lower price than when he bought it.

I only buy Flames of War from my FLGS cause hes a douche... I get all of my GW stuff from the GW store that is about an hour and a half from my house.

Sounds like a moron and a crappy businessman. If a price goes down then it doesn't matter because it will cost you less to replace the item. You'll also, most likely, experience increased sales due to the price decrease.

Extravagantly easily. GW has effectively priced me out of the market for new purchases. Despite loving the models, I have no desire to spend unconscionable amounts on valkyries/Vendettas.

On the positive this may help me to get off my butt this summer and start ebaying some of this stuff, now that I have a half decent camera.

Everything costs more. This is part of life. I remember, back in the day, buying two gnome minis in a blister for $.75.

I also remember when you could buy a decent car for $5k. The cost of a Chevy Cavalier doubled between my first and second of them.

My gas costs more. My electrical bill is higher. My wife's college tuition is up. I got a new shirt the other day and it cost $50. The price of concert tickets is at least 150% over where it was in 1990.

At the end of the day, prices go up. It's how it works. Either you still want to do something, or you don't. I still enjoy modeling. I still enjoy getting together with my friends and having a few beers while shooting each other's men off the table. So for me, the price change is an inconvenience, but no more so than all of the other price increases that the world is throwing out.

I hear the 'time goes by so prices must increase' and simply don't get it, the profit margin on tin (and plastic) soldiers is already massive, the price increase is large and at a time when many companies are freezing or reducing price.

I would have been very happy to build several armies and spend a considerable amount, over time, but the amount being asked for individual minis and boxes is too high and demonstrates a brazen greed and indifference bordering on hostility towards the customer base by this company.

They do not deserve your custom.

H.B.M.C. wrote:For those of us who never buy GW at retail, and always buy from discounters? Who cares... I'll still be getting 30% off.

I'll play devils advocate. 30% off 100 dollars is certainly better than 30% off 120 dollars.. but otherwise, I agree with your point..

two_heads_talking wrote:I'll play devils advocate. 30% off 100 dollars is certainly better than 30% off 120 dollars.. but otherwise, I agree with your point..

I don't know who's advocate I am, but I'm just going to point out that 30% off $120 *is* better than 30% off $100.... its a $36 discount, rather than a $30 one....

Of course its the 70% that's left that's worse...

Redbeard wrote:Everything costs more. This is part of life. I remember, back in the day, buying two gnome minis in a blister for $.75.

I also remember when you could buy a decent car for $5k. The cost of a Chevy Cavalier doubled between my first and second of them.

My gas costs more. My electrical bill is higher. My wife's college tuition is up. I got a new shirt the other day and it cost $50. The price of concert tickets is at least 150% over where it was in 1990.

At the end of the day, prices go up. It's how it works. Either you still want to do something, or you don't. I still enjoy modeling. I still enjoy getting together with my friends and having a few beers while shooting each other's men off the table. So for me, the price change is an inconvenience, but no more so than all of the other price increases that the world is throwing out.

If you compare the rate of inflation versus the rate of price increases over the past 20 years from GW you'll be less inclined to defend their ludicrous business strategy (gas, especially in the US, and college tuition are the most notable exceptions).

Lets take a Greater Demon as an example. When you look at the inflation between 2000 or so when it came out now, your looking at inflation (roughly 4%) compounded over 8-9 years. That ends up being about a 40% price growth from when it came out. The price of tin is up by 20%, from where it was relative to now. That said a model that debuted in the $30-$35 range now being $60 isn't far fetched. Annoying but not far fetched.

Danny Internets wrote:
If you compare the rate of inflation versus the rate of price increases over the past 20 years from GW you'll be less inclined to defend their ludicrous business strategy.

I do not have sufficient data to declare their business strategy ludicrous. I'm not defending it. I'm not supporting it. I don't have the appropriate information to make that decision.

Consider this. They raise prices, they still sell things. I don't know the volume of their sales, do you? There are three possible things that happen though.

1) They raised prices, and people bought less. Well, if the data supports this, then they probably did make a mistake.

2) They raised prices, and their claim that their market was inelastic is true, and they sold the same amount. In this case, was it ludicrous to raise prices? Perhaps they under-priced their products initially.

3) They raised prices, and due to popular, yet costly, expansions such as Apocalypse and War of the Ring (which are all designed to get people to buy more models than they need to play the base games), they actually saw increased sales... Which would obviously mean that the market is inelastic, that they had under-priced things before, and that really, all that is needed to drive their games is removing the artificial limits on how many a person "needs"...

My guess is that case three is what actually happened. That is entirely a guess, mind you, like I said, I don't have the data. But, reading about the success of the Apocalypse expansion, and the fact that they then replicated the concept for Lord of the Rings, I'd say that any damage done to sales volume due to price increases was undone by the Apocalypse expansion.

The people running GW aren't idiots. They might not behave in a manner best suited to your interests, but this is a publicly traded company run by suits, not a fly-by-night shop run by college dropouts. They have the data, and they can see the trends. They gain nothing by driving people away from their company. That doesn't mean they cannot make mistakes, but I think that the only ludicrous thing here is that bystanders without data are criticizing their business plan.

By way of reference (and, it might be a chicken/egg problem), I buy miniatures from other companies. The companies out there that make minis of similar quality to GW charge roughly the same. Freebooter miniatures sell their character figs for about the same price as GW (and have a similar quality level). I have looked for model tanks from plastic-kit companies, and they're not significantly cheaper than GW's tanks. It could be that these companies follow GW's lead in setting prices... or it could be that it's a price that the market, as a whole, is willing to pay.

Osbad wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:I'll play devils advocate. 30% off 100 dollars is certainly better than 30% off 120 dollars.. but otherwise, I agree with your point..

I don't know who's advocate I am, but I'm just going to point out that 30% off $120 *is* better than 30% off $100.... its a $36 discount, rather than a $30 one....

Of course its the 70% that's left that's worse...

I disagree , even though we all know 30% is 30% hence it should be the same , its still not.

Higher amounts should be benefiting from bulk type of sales , so if anything higher price should be offering more discounts.

Im with Osbad for this one :3

How am I coping?

I'm playing Warmachine/Hordes and at-43 now.

simple - they are also better games than 40k anywho


What sucks about GW's business plan is this.

Lets keep releasing a better codex that will smash! To increase sales!
Its a never ending cycle that repeats.

I'm using it as an excuse to buy minis now that I won't be getting around to doing anything with for months

- Salvage

Sadly, I'm a tool, and I will continue to spend money on GW products. In fact, in reaction to this price increase, I just purchased the Assault on Black Reach box set that I have postponed in buying for a while. And it is likely that I will continue to pick up bits and pieces here and there for my existing armies, even though I paint them as a snail's pace. Part of the collector's syndrome, I guess.

And will I continue to pick up Rules and Codeces and Black Library Novels, because I have the compulsive need to "keep up" and I generally like the fluff, especially stuff written by Dan Abnett. And I sure as hell will be picking up a Space Hulk box set when it comes out...or two...or three.

But on average, I don't spend more than $30 a month on GW (Space Hulk will be an obvious exception to this).

It has been like this for me since around 2004 when GW made me reconsider my buying habits. You see, during this period, 3rd Edition was in full swing, and I was regularly purchasing whole armies at a time, a lot of times on impulse. So it was during this particular price increase (2004) that I did what many people are doing now...I made a conscious decision to limit my spending on GW. I knew I couldn't quit...I had invested over a decade of my life into the universe, the miniatures, and the great times I've had playing GW games. And I still wanted to be able to be a part of the hobby and play the games. But instead of spending thousands a year on GW, I slowly cut back, first by increasing my secondary market acquisitions, such as through eBay and Bartertown, and then ultimately by simply buying less.

So this particular price increase (2009) won't affect me much. But that's because GW already broke the back of this camel in 2004. As for when GW will reach the next threshold and force me to consider quitting their products entirely, I'm not sure. I'm sincerely hoping that this trend does not continue, however, because it is getting to the point where I can, in all seriousness, ask myself if their products are, indeed, truly worth it. I have always acknowledged that GW's products are "expensive", but there was always an inherent "value" to their products. Now...it's getting to the point where I am not sure anymore.

Im not buying anything.. cause its expensive. But honestly the Valk would have to be $50 Australian for me to even consider it. Rather then the laugable $96.

EDIT: I will still buy rule books and as much as it pains me codexes that take my fancy. but $42 for a codex is alot. So it would really have to take my fancy.

Osbad wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:I'll play devils advocate. 30% off 100 dollars is certainly better than 30% off 120 dollars.. but otherwise, I agree with your point..

I don't know who's advocate I am, but I'm just going to point out that 30% off $120 *is* better than 30% off $100.... its a $36 discount, rather than a $30 one....

Of course its the 70% that's left that's worse...

70 dollars is definately better than 84 dollars which is what I'm referring to.. it all depends on how you decided to skew the numbers..

Osbad wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:I'll play devils advocate. 30% off 100 dollars is certainly better than 30% off 120 dollars.. but otherwise, I agree with your point..

I don't know who's advocate I am, but I'm just going to point out that 30% off $120 *is* better than 30% off $100.... its a $36 discount, rather than a $30 one....

Of course its the 70% that's left that's worse...

You're still spending more money.

I'll be buying plasticard and will be making my first tanks this summer. I'll look to other companies for demons.

I'll buy some molding and resin.

mortal888 wrote:I'll buy some molding and resin.

Me too. I have enough GW stuff as it is to use it as reference material to sculpting my own guardsmen. I should have some of my rapid prototyped parts soon.

For tanks I've started kit bashing... 1 GW tank + 1 ($10 Tank) = 2 GW-esque Tanks for $30/ea. Better than $50 or $60 (sooner than later) for each tank.

For the same price GW is charging, I can make something more unique and more immediately to my desire. I'll by the occaisional thing from them, but not as much.

karnaeya wrote:Im not buying anything.. cause its expensive. But honestly the Valk would have to be $50 Australian for me to even consider it. Rather then the laugable $96.

Would AUS$63.80 be a good compromise? That's a 33% discount.

I'm coping by trading older models and armies that I don't use anymore. I'm also doing some commission painting for a guy owns a store. I've managed to get enough from that to start two armies.

If I really want something (like the new IG codex) I just look for something that I won't be using for years out and just get rid of it. This has also helped me to focus on the stuff that I already have. I can probably speak for a lot of us in saying that we have too much "stuff" and we need to cut back a bit. I don't see any price cuts so I just need to be smarter when I do buy stuff.

I'm painting what I already have and purchasing used/previously owned models to supplement what I'm missing. Fortunately, I've got most of what I need, but I still make bits purchases from online retailers.

Also, I make do using GW's models.

Was on the forgeworld site last night and the sad fact is that in Australia to buy cadians retail and buy the most excellent kolony heads from pig iron metal is almost on a par with buying Death korps of Kreig models....

Redbeard wrote:
Consider this. They raise prices, they still sell things. I don't know the volume of their sales, do you? There are three possible things that happen though.

1) They raised prices, and people bought less. Well, if the data supports this, then they probably did make a mistake.

2) They raised prices, and their claim that their market was inelastic is true, and they sold the same amount. In this case, was it ludicrous to raise prices? Perhaps they under-priced their products initially.

3) They raised prices, and due to popular, yet costly, expansions such as Apocalypse and War of the Ring (which are all designed to get people to buy more models than they need to play the base games), they actually saw increased sales... Which would obviously mean that the market is inelastic, that they had under-priced things before, and that really, all that is needed to drive their games is removing the artificial limits on how many a person "needs"...

I think you missed a fourth possibility:

4) They raised prices, slashed every last bit of their hobby support in the form of bitz ordering, Games Days, GTs, Independent retailer support, and White Dwarf, and (naturally) saw an increased profit, not necessarily an increase in sales.

That's neither original nor brilliant, IMO. This is a hobby, it's not just a retail product that someone picks up in Walmart or some other big box store. I think hobbyists have longer memories than your average consumer, and GW will have problems winning back their customer base the longer this level of neglect continues.

I love the game, I hate the way I'm treated for my loyalty and passion for the hobby.

the_Armyman wrote:
4) They raised prices, slashed every last bit of their hobby support in the form of bitz ordering, Games Days, GTs, Independent retailer support

Well, considering the fact that I'm getting 3x the support for my stores and events than I ever have before, I'd argue against the idea that GW cut any support for Independent Retailers.

when i was on 40k forums thay said occasionally theres a decrease too.
so is there hope?

garret wrote:when i was on 40k forums thay said occasionally theres a decrease too.
so is there hope?

I still say not a chance in hell, but if you want to hold your breath and wait for it be my guest.

the_Armyman wrote:
I think you missed a fourth possibility:

4) They raised prices, slashed every last bit of their hobby support in the form of bitz ordering, Games Days, GTs, Independent retailer support, and White Dwarf, and (naturally) saw an increased profit, not necessarily an increase in sales.

I didn't miss anything. I didn't talk about profits at all, just sales. Sales can only have done one of three things: gone up, stayed even, or gone down.

This is a hobby, it's not just a retail product that someone picks up in Walmart or some other big box store. I think hobbyists have longer memories than your average consumer, and GW will have problems winning back their customer base the longer this level of neglect continues.

I love the game, I hate the way I'm treated for my loyalty and passion for the hobby.

Well, again, do you have any data? What if these price increases are legitimately the only way the company is staying solvent? What if the options are pay more, or lose GW forever? Unless you have insider information on their finances, you don't know that this isn't the case. I'm not defending them, because I too do not know. I am, however, giving them the benefit of the doubt. These are tough economic times for many companies. And, like I said before, this isn't some fly-by-night operation run by college dropouts. I'm willing to make the assumption that whatever they're doing, it is based on what is best for the company, the shareholders, and the employees. We're customers, and they're a business. And, while they may not be a faceless company like walmart, at the end of the day, their main duty is to stay in business. If they fail in that, then there is no more GW hobby, at all.

Given the increases in prices everywhere else, I don't think they're being unreasonable.

I am always slightly puzzled when people start complaining about the price of the hobby. It isn't that I think the hobby is inexpensive, because its not, nor do I think that we get a product that has a monetary value similar to what we pay, because we don't. We buy little men, paint them, and play a game with them. If anything this entire endeavor consumes time and money, and leaves us with something worth little of either.

Nothing about the figures, unless you are a superb painter or find the right buyer, will make you back the money you spent, so what do people mean "worth it" when they start talking about a box of figures being worth $22 but not $25? Is fun a measurable commodity, and is that the basis they are basing their worth on? Is there some other intangible at work that I haven't considered? How is this concept worth constructed? It seems like people are playing a semantical game with a word everyone likes to say they know the meaning of, but in this context it seems a bit unclear.

At the end of the day, I dont think it could ever be "worth it" in a strictly monetary sense, which leaves me to consider how I deem it worth it. I do it because I enjoy it, which is also why I think everyone else in the hobby does it. How do I put a price tag on enjoyment? I don't, and I don't think I could. I've seen others compare the hobby to other things they enjoy, and though they often find it less expensive, I am apprehensive of such comparisons, because this is one of the few things I enjoy doing that costs money, aside from eating, so a personal comparison of this sort seems pointless. As long as I can afford the enjoyment, as those with a hobby budget clearly can, I will do what I enjoy, even if the prices mean I get fewer toys to play with. So, I guess I am part of the inelastic spending trend. So long as I can afford it, Ill be buying warhammer.

Redbeard wrote:
Well, again, do you have any data? What if these price increases are legitimately the only way the company is staying solvent? What if the options are pay more, or lose GW forever? Unless you have insider information on their finances, you don't know that this isn't the case. I'm not defending them, because I too do not know. I am, however, giving them the benefit of the doubt. These are tough economic times for many companies. And, like I said before, this isn't some fly-by-night operation run by college dropouts. I'm willing to make the assumption that whatever they're doing, it is based on what is best for the company, the shareholders, and the employees. We're customers, and they're a business. And, while they may not be a faceless company like walmart, at the end of the day, their main duty is to stay in business. If they fail in that, then there is no more GW hobby, at all.

Given the increases in prices everywhere else, I don't think they're being unreasonable.

GW is a public company and posts their sales figures you guys know right? Going by memory their sales have been dropping year over year for at least several years now. I could be wrong, look it up.

Meh.

I run a fixed budget.

If GW charges more, but I still get a fair value, I buy less.

If GW charges too much, and I don't get a fair value, I don't buy.

I have stopped buying GW before, and I can do it again.