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**ubermosher**

Falconlance wrote:Heh, it looks like you guys scared all the Europeans out of the thread.

Hmmm... I thought it seemed less condescending and reproving.

**Clthomps**

I thought some of you might enjoy this:

http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

**jp400**

Falconlance wrote:Heh, it looks like you guys scared all the Europeans out of the thread.

In the Spirit Of Frazzled The Great....

**reds8n**

Falconlance wrote:Heh, it looks like you guys scared all the Europeans out of the thread.

No no, you continue to amuse us no end.

**Frazzled**

Clthomps wrote:I thought some of you might enjoy this:

http://www.mouseguns.com/compare.htm

Its funny because its true!

(Mosin is a dirt cheap Russian rifle from WWII, but actually designed at the turn of the 19th century)

Stuff you know if you have a Mosin Nagant
It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.
You can hit the farm from two counties over.
What's a mag?
What's a safety?
Your rifle has dog collars.
Your bayonet is longer than your leg.
You can knock down everyone else's target just from the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.
When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.
Recoil often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.
Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.
Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.
Your rifle won a pole vault event.
You paid $59.95.
You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.
You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.
Service Life, 100 years.
You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54r.
If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.
You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4.
After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor. THEN you watch "Enemy at the Gates."
After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for shishkabob.
Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but its buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.
Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.
You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Mosin.
Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the yard to sleep in.

**SsevenN**

Funny stuff frazzeld.

I still need a Mosin Nagant for my self......

**Clthomps**

If you have a C & R Licence then heres a good link for you:

http://ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IO&Product_Code=MOSI0020&Category_Code=Long+Guns

That I plan on buying one from there when my C&R FFR comes in.

**Frazzled**

Whats a C&R license?
I know a comrade with OS (original Soviet-they put the C in Comrade baby) and newer Finnish version.

**SsevenN**

Curio and relics license. Firearms manufactured before a certain date can be bought w/o a NCIS check, and shipped directly to your door.

I don't have my C&R either, firearms become an expensive habbut....

**Frazzled**

Oh, I've been precleared so thats not an issue, (woops if I owned any firearms...)

**SsevenN**

Ahh Frazz, being from Texas, I would hazzard a guess that you have your concealed carry license.

I haven't aquired mine yet, in New Mexico, you MUST carry the same calibre handgun you qualified for your license with.

With the hot summers, I'm a fan of 9mm, heck I would love the new Kahr p380 even..

But fall and winter I preffer my full size CZ 75 style frames in 10mm.

So I haven't found the perfect gun for the job yet.

**Frazzled**

I've heard good things about both. But CZ makes a high capacity 9mm too doesn't it? I'm just putting that out there.

**SsevenN**

Yeah, the 75 SP-01 I own comes with 18, yes that's right 18 round magazines! (that's in 9mm)

The thing is, winter means big coats, which is great for conceal. But the extra layers tend to have a signifigant affect on the terminal ballistics of lighter rounds. My 124 grn HSTs just don't reach the same penetration/expansion results when forced in to multiple layers of cloathing. That is where the Beefier rounds come in to play, you need a larger framed gun, no prob in winter!

So that's why I've been procrastinating.

Do I;

1) Get licensed w/ 9mm and have the portability and comfort in summer, but be forced to use less effective SD rounds in the winter.

1) Get licensed for .40/10mm, deal with 'printing' in the summer, more wieght, but also have a real show stopper calibre that will preform just as well in winter.

Either way it's not a big priority. And it gives me a valid excuse to continue purchasing different style handguns.

**Frazzled**

Th CZ has good weight and has been reviewed as being "Russian" in its sturdiness. And there are the others PMd on.

Go 9mm. You're clean all the way through. If you're worried about penetration Hornady (IIRC its Hornady) makes a hollowpoint round with a wax/plastic fill in designed specifically to go through heavy clothing.

Alternatively you can go oldshool and just have hardball ammunition. Finally, you could alternate between JHP and hardball in the clip. After all, you'd be double tapping anyway.

Too big of a pistol and you won't carry it, especially in the summer. Last I heard, Arizona can be a little, er warm...

**Envy89**

i need to join photobucket or something.... no pics of my actualy guns, but here i go.

Wasr-10 (AK-47)

scoped 306 butchered mauser

mossberg 500 pump... looks like the one on the bottom, longer berrel though.

9mm hi point

pimped out SKS... like the on top, but with REAL MAGS... not the fixed one

K98 Mauser... the stock on mine has no hole (i think its not a german stock) BUT, the gun itself has German WW2 markings on it.

M44 Mosin Nagant.... i CAN fire 5 rounds out of the thing without a jam, but i can never reload it using the stripper clips.

and a TT-33

**SsevenN**

Excellent collection there.

@Frazz

I will probably end up going w/ 9mm, probably my 75 SP-01 for winter and I might get a Kahr PM9 for summer, the CW9 I currently have is small, but not small enough heh.

**jp400**

If you like 9's why not go for a Walther P99 like mine? Shoots awsome with very controlable recoil.

**Frazzled**

A comrade has this.
Walther. the accuracy is ok but man its tiny. He literally just keeps it in his pocket:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=60492&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=44304&isFirearm=Y

My preference however would be a Beretta for the same weight/profile
http://www.beretta.com/Pistols-Carbines/Defence/Sub-Compact/Px4-Storm-Subcompact-Type-F/index.aspx?m=82&f=2&idv=18&id=855

Manly men however go Kimber.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ultracarry/stainless_ultra_carry_II/
Kicks like a mule though

**jp400**

Im actually in the process of bartering my way to a Kimber Custom .45....

Ultra tiny and ultra mule kick.

**Frazzled**

Well if you feel the need to buy me something:
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/customshop/gold_combat_stainless_II/

or this:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=38&productid=88

Come on, be nice to your local Mod.

**jp400**

If your good maybe for Christmas! lol

**Comrade Amadayeus**

This thread makes me want to graduate early, with all you guys and your guns, working as a weapons engineer will be quiet profitable...

**Clthomps**

Whats a C&R license?

As seven noted it's a Curio & relic Licence, also know as a type 3 FFL.

To be recognized by ATF as a C&R firearm, a firearm must fall into at least one of the following three categories:

Firearms which were manufactured more than 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

It cost $30 a for a three years, but the real hassle is doing all the paper work. Heres a website for it:

http://members.cox.net/cruffler/ffl.html

**Lordhat**

sebster wrote:

Yep, everything is risky. That's why it's also very risky to invest in nothing but stocks, or in nothing but your house, or whatever. By spreading out investments, a little in stocks, a little in housing, a little in collectables, you can reduce that risk considerably.

Look, I'm not saying don't do it, because if you love your collection, well then that's reason enough by itself. But if you really are looking at it as an investment, then I gotta say it's risky to have all your money tied up in one place.

There's ONE area that investing in guns beats all those other investments hands down: If EVERYTHING goes bad. If the stock market collapses entirely, and the NATION is out of work, being armed can get you anything you NEED (food, water, shelter). I'm not saying that 'the world will end entirely here we come Mad Max, but that fact is when the gak hits the fan people go stark raving nuts. Until the government regains control (Whatever one does) a gun will secure you the things other people will be rioting about not having. If the Zombiepocalypse comes, find the man with the guns. Even if you're in a major city, a gun will give you the ability to acquire what you need for yourself and your family, including safe passage into the rural areas where one could hunt one's own food.

If Anarchy did reign for long enough to foster a barter system then having an 'excess' of firearms would be very beneficial. Don't know how to hunt? Trade weaponry to someone who does in exchange for training.

Yes this is a very hypothetical situation, but it's definitely an example of how the right 'investments' are foolproof. Anything that can help guarantee you the basic necessities is by definition a safe investment.

**Cheese Elemental**

Zombie apocalypse? You're using that gak as an argument?

I mean, come on. A virus that turns people into mindless flesh-eaters?

You've been watching too many Romero movies.

**Lordhat**

And once again, Cheesemeister shows a lack of a sense of humor.

**jp400**

It would seem that the humor in your post was lost in the Void that is Cheese Elementals mind.

Oh Well.

*EDIT*
Beat me to it by mere seconds!

Besides, Id rather talk about zombies then bring Religion into every other topic like some people try to do.

*EDIT 2*
Know what, NVM.. Dont want to de-rail this thread into a religion war.

**Frazzled**

What, seeing as how Twilight is sweeping the world, I'm praying for Zombie Apocalypse. Only the zombies can save us from mangina vampires!

**jp400**

Viva La Zombie!

Frazz, if the ZombiePocalypse happens I always have a spare bunker or two up here In Idaho for ya!

**reds8n**

Do most American gun owners possess multiple firearms, or are the members here just a bit more "into" the whole scene than the average citizen ? From the TV shows etc I've seen \i'v got the impression that most people if they do own one tend to have a pistol or something tucked away in a draw/closet etc etc and don't have the veritable arsenals that some people here have.

I guess this would obviously vary from state to state or more likely from town/city to country and so on.