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**Frazzled**

Frazz, if the ZombiePocalypse happens I always have a spare bunker or two up here In Idaho for ya!

Spare bunker-check!

Do most American gun owners possess multiple firearms, or are the members here just a bit more "into" the whole scene than the average citizen ? From the TV shows etc I've seen \i'v got the impression that most people if they do own one tend to have a pistol or something tucked away in a draw/closet etc etc and don't have the veritable arsenals that some people here have.

I guess this would obviously vary from state to state or more likely from town/city to country and so on.

You answered it with this last sentence.
*there are many jurisdictions where firearms or types of firearms are defacto illegal (being overturned on a case by case basis now). Some cities are restrictive and some states are restrictive. Chicago its pretty much prohibited, whereas in Houston the police will give you one if they stop you and you aren’t suitably equipped (ok almost). Just as an aside, murder rates are way higher in Chicago.

*Cultural. It’s a deeply cultural thing. The South and West are steeped in the traditions of legal gun ownership. Not in the North (actually yes in the crime side, just not on the legal side). Its also a rural/urban thing. If you were raised country you have at least a shotgun or rifle. That’s just how it is.

**reds8n**

Hmm.. figured as much, the fact that so many were rifles was a bit of a give away, and makes sense from a huntin' perspective.

Incidentally does the ownership ( or lack thereof) affect your household insurance premiums ? Generally speaking anyway. I'm assuming that with this being a COns. right to etc etc, that they don't or aren't allowed to ask about such things with regards to your life insurance/similar ? I'm not sure whether it would/could push said premium up or down, just curious.

**Frazzled**

I've never heard it as an issue of discussion.

**Lordhat**

Frazzled wrote:A comrade has this.
Walther. the accuracy is ok but man its tiny. He literally just keeps it in his pocket:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=60492&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=44304&isFirearm=Y

My preference however would be a Beretta for the same weight/profile
http://www.beretta.com/Pistols-Carbines/Defence/Sub-Compact/Px4-Storm-Subcompact-Type-F/index.aspx?m=82&f=2&idv=18&id=855

Manly men however go Kimber.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ultracarry/stainless_ultra_carry_II/
Kicks like a mule though

My friend has limited run Kimber CDP (Basically the Ultracarry, but in their "Kimpro" finish). I wouldn't say it kicks like a mule, although it IS very 'snappy' in the hand.

**reds8n**

Ah well.

.. So if, through whatever sad state of affairs your visiting mate ( or buddy as I guess you'd say) was injured in some non fatal way in your house by/with your gun, would your insurance cover that, like your car insurance covers you for accidents etc if he sued ? Or is this a bit of a grey/never come up to your knowledge kind of thing ?

I'm just curious as your country has a .... reputation... for people being somewhat litigious in circumstances and I'd be surprised if someone somewhere hadn't tried this on. I have vague knowledge of people trying ( and failing) to sue gun manufacturers for deaths caused etc etc.

**Lordhat**

Several cities have sued the manufacturers.

http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS327US328&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=city+sues+guns+manufacturers

I think it's ludicrous though. Like suing automobile manufacturers because car crashes are a top killer in America.

**Frazzled**

Lordhat wrote:
Frazzled wrote:A comrade has this.
Walther. the accuracy is ok but man its tiny. He literally just keeps it in his pocket:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=60492&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=44304&isFirearm=Y

My preference however would be a Beretta for the same weight/profile
http://www.beretta.com/Pistols-Carbines/Defence/Sub-Compact/Px4-Storm-Subcompact-Type-F/index.aspx?m=82&f=2&idv=18&id=855

Manly men however go Kimber.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ultracarry/stainless_ultra_carry_II/
Kicks like a mule though

My friend has limited run Kimber CDP (Basically the Ultracarry, but in their "Kimpro" finish). I wouldn't say it kicks like a mule, although it IS very 'snappy' in the hand.

Me like the ultracarry with finger grips. Its as light as a Bersa/Walther, but makes really big holes and is painfully accurate (literally). Its nearly a competition level firearm, used for personal carry. Nice!

**Falconlance**

I see guns like martial arts. You have them to protect yourself and hope you never have to use them for such.
And then there are other people with different upbringings... who are more like to use them simply because they have them.

Its always nice when some ignorant f*ck goes off and loses his temper and shoots someone and causes more bullsh*t for the people who DON'T abuse their right to weaponry.

**youbedead**

Frazzled wrote:

Frazz, if the ZombiePocalypse happens I always have a spare bunker or two up here In Idaho for ya!

Spare bunker-check!

Do most American gun owners possess multiple firearms, or are the members here just a bit more "into" the whole scene than the average citizen ? From the TV shows etc I've seen \i'v got the impression that most people if they do own one tend to have a pistol or something tucked away in a draw/closet etc etc and don't have the veritable arsenals that some people here have.

I guess this would obviously vary from state to state or more likely from town/city to country and so on.

You answered it with this last sentence.
*there are many jurisdictions where firearms or types of firearms are defacto illegal (being overturned on a case by case basis now). Some cities are restrictive and some states are restrictive. Chicago its pretty much prohibited, whereas in Houston the police will give you one if they stop you and you aren’t suitably equipped (ok almost). Just as an aside, murder rates are way higher in Chicago.

*Cultural. It’s a deeply cultural thing. The South and West are steeped in the traditions of legal gun ownership. Not in the North (actually yes in the crime side, just not on the legal side). Its also a rural/urban thing. If you were raised country you have at least a shotgun or rifle. That’s just how it is.

So the police will actually give you one if they don't think well enough equipped.

**Frazzled**

Well, yea, of course. Going around Texas unarmed when there are jackalopes free ranging is incredibly dangerous. Usually only Yankees and Canadians make that mistake.

**Zad Fnark**

I perfer weapons from a more manly age:

One of my three trapdoor Springfields:

1898 Krag:

Fodder for these (.30-40 Krag, .45-70 Government, .50-70 Government):

**GMMStudios**

malfred wrote:

Haha sweet.

**SsevenN**

@ Zad Fnark

Good stuff.

I'm planning on getting a nice bolt action eventually.

**Frazzled**

Zad Fnark wrote:I perfer weapons from a more manly age:

One of my three trapdoor Springfields:

1898 Krag:

Fodder for these (.30-40 Krag, .45-70 Government, .50-70 Government):

I see the trapdoor. Ever shot it?
Ever shot a Spencer, Sharps Rifle, or Remington rolling block?

**Zad Fnark**

Frazzled wrote:
I see the trapdoor. Ever shot it?
Ever shot a Spencer, Sharps Rifle, or Remington rolling block?

I've shot two of the three trapdoors. The one pictured here is the model 1866. They were made in 1867 and converted from model 1863 muskets -- also know as the second Allin conversion. This shoots the .50-70.

My model 1884 shoots the venerable .45-70.

I was using black powder substituts for powder, but have had problems with tumbling bullets. I've been using pure lead, casting them. I've switched to smokeless powder (5744), and am now getting actual groups with them. My '66 has a nice shiny bore in it yet, and shoots well.

I have a repro Sharps carbine (Civil War), which I've taken out once. I made paper cartridges for it. Open the chamber, load the cartridge in, and close the chamber, cutting off the paper at the back. Insert cap and fire away. I was using black powder with this one, and after a few shots, was mucking up pretty good. I was rinsing the action with a water bottle between shots. I've made a bunch of new cartridges with a substitute, which should be cleaner.

My brother has a Rolling Block in .43 Egyptian. That was fun to bang away with.

Musket wise, I just have repos. I was looking for originals, but found I could get a better condition trapdoor for the price. All three of mine were had for between 650.00 and 800.00. My muskets are a model 1863 (.58 cal) and a rifled model 1842 (.69 cal). The minie for the '42 is a whopping 730 grains. In case you're wondering, there's very little kick to the muskets. The traps do kick some, but they're still nothing compared to your typical 12 guage.

I have an AR-15, but I've gotten fond of rifles where I don't have to chase after the cartridges after I shoot.

Before I die, I want a nice Burnside carbine. Need a few grand, though.

I've still spent more $$ on 40k and WHFB than all my guns, reloading, etc combined.

ZF-

**Frazzled**

You're running smokeless heh? Accuracy better but man the clouds of smoke are required!

Burnside hey? yea that'd be a pretty penny.

I have a thing for pre smokeless single shot breach loaders.

How about cap n ball revolvers? nothing some loving like the boom of a Colt Dragoon...

**Zad Fnark**

Frazzled wrote:You're running smokeless heh? Accuracy better but man the clouds of smoke are required!

Yeah I know, but I'd rather be accurate. I could use real BP in the cartridges and see how that works. I've just been chicken regarding cleanup.

I've used American Pioneer Powder and triple seven with lame results. 777 is very nasty on the cases if it isn't cleaned right away. A real ugly tarnish forms on them. With my Starline .50-70 cases running two bucks a pop, I want to keep them a while.

5744 is kinda meant for these old high capacity BP cartridges anyway, and the pressures are pretty tame, so I feel pretty safe with it. The trap gets a bit of a bum rap on its strength, but it was used successfully for testing the .30-40 at the time. I've read stories of guys trying to wreck the action with overstuffed rounds and it held up well.

ZF-

**Frazzled**

No thats cool. I'd just not be worrying about accuracy. I'd be looking for thw BOOM and lotsa smoke and a face that looks like a cartoon and bom went off in your face-with black powder.

Whats your accuracy at 200 yds with these things?

**Zad Fnark**

I've only gone from 50 yds, and then managed a 4 inch group with the '66. (thus far)

Neither my .45-75 rifles have very good bores. There are plenty out there with pristine bores, and I've heard of guys with BP rounds getting 3 inch groups at 200 yds. The model '84 and later rifles had what was called the Buffington sight, which looks almost like a slide rule-- very finely graduated sight. It even accounted for bullet drift from its spin. So, in theory, it'll do well enough. After Custer's demise, the Army put a high emphesis on long range shooting.

My old '66 does have a nice bore, though. I just need to tinker. If I ever make it out deer hunting someday, I would like to use it. A nice .50 cal 500 grain bullet should handle anything on the continent. It did do a number on the bison herds.

If you like long range, ever heard of Billy Dixon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_dixon

Here's a good site I frequent:

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com

ZF-

**Frazzled**

Cool.

**Zad Fnark**

Now that I'm home...

My smokeless .45-70 group, 50 yds:

And the .50-70, same distance:

<Edit> Surprised I could hotlink to my facebook gallery.

**Frazzled**

Coolio.

**SsevenN**

Well I don't shoot my rifles very much. Occasionally I'll shoot skeet with my Mossberg. But most of my Gun time/money goes into pistol shooting.

This is 15 yards, slowfire, isosceles stance. Target is a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of letter paper.