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Redemption wrote:How about races like Tyranids defending? Do they suddenly get Lascannon turrets or do they have some race-specific defensive buildings/weaponry?

The suggestions are that you can modify buildings, and use weapons from your army. Or make tyranid spore chimneys that count as bunkers and shoot devourers. Or something else crazy and neat. You don't have to stick to the IG buildings, but it's suggested you use them as templates for the power level.

So an orky fortress with heavy shooters and a turret mounted longrange zappy gun! Much better than stupid heavy bolters and lascannons. And automated guns shoot just as good as orks.

Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

Yes, and many armies are aided powerfully by the revised force org charts whereas others aren't effected at all. It's a scenario game, if you feel you are at a disadvantage voice your concern to the opponent. Or the game master, since both the apoc book and likely this one will suggest that some games or gamers may want an impartial hand guiding the game.

Scenario game. Not competitive. Issues like powerbuilds aren't supposed to be an issue because that is left up to the players.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Or you guys could realize that just like apocalypse its a scenario game, not designed for competitive play. Seriously.

Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Hehe your persistent pessimism to anything that is new, different or just not yours may already put you as the laughing stock of this community so dont worry too much give it a try. I would love to see you write some battle reports.. I think it would make for good reading as each turn is described as being the worst ever and how you are doomed to fail until you roll the dice and you win! It would be very liberating im sure.

On topic: I look forward to seeing APocalypse style planet strikes. Seeing pods dropping all over with Ironclads and superheavy fortifications. Like having the Star Wars Ion Cannon on Hoth dropping 10" plates all over deep strikers because the mystics are tuned in to the world around. A lot of room for new types of datasheets.

Agamemnon2 wrote:
On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Doesn't the attacker get 6 elite and 6 fast attack? If so that's a possible 18 valkryie/vendetta's, come on now if that doesn't sound cool I don't know what is. Add to that Storm Trooper squads coming out of the sky and that's an impressive visual.

To be realistic tho. I actually like the idea of being able to field my 6 vendetta's/valkryies all as independent units instead of squadrons. And Storm Troopers seem to be made for the assault role for guard. For thematic games I'm really liking the idea.

Agamemnon2 wrote: Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

Looks like a nice supplement, but maybe I will just get the buildings.

Greets
Schepp himself

Now I've got a reason to finish my Ork terrain.
And build a table for it of course

Agamemnon2 wrote: Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

3 units of Psykers in 3 units of Valks / Vendettas isn't bad, especially if you grab a DH Assassin or GKTs. Toss in some Hellhounds and you're golden.
____

Warmaster wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Doesn't the attacker get 6 elite and 6 fast attack? If so that's a possible 18 valkryie/vendetta's,

Add to that Storm Trooper squads coming out of the sky and that's an impressive visual.

To be realistic tho. I actually like the idea of being able to field my 6 vendetta's/valkryies all as independent units instead of squadrons.

And Storm Troopers seem to be made for the assault role for guard. For thematic games I'm really liking the idea.

Yup, 6 Elite and and 6 Fast attacking. But no way am I dropping the better part of a grand on Valks & Vendettas!

6 squads Stormtroopers? I'd laugh 6x at Epic Fail:

Realistically, that'll be 3 Valks/Vendettas, 2 Hellhounds, and a couple Sentinels, so I won't need such heavy use of Squadroning.

IG Storms are fail, though if they were 10, even 12 pts, they'd be OK.
____

Schepp himself wrote: Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

The only thing worse than fielding 16-pt Storms are 40-pt Ogryns!

God damn it, don't suck the fun out of everything, it's just a scenario so play it.

I wonder what a "balanced" number of automated weapons per fortification would be. This will probably call for a house rule.

For defensive weapons, blast weapons do seem like a good idea. Are MLs allowed?

On a separate note, with the landing pad being so badass, I think I know what my next Eldar terrain project is going to be...

mikhaila wrote: Walmork and Tacogork will be more than sketches on the walls of my cell.

ROFLMAO. mikhaila, thanks for posting this review!

BrookM wrote:God damn it, don't suck the fun out of everything, it's just a scenario so play it.

Relax, it's not a big deal. If the scenario says to bring Storms & Ogryns, I'd do my best, even though I don't have any Ogryns, and don't intend on buying any...

Actually, I'm not buying anything extra for Planetstrike because I already bought for the year and have plenty enough stuff.

@Agamemnon2

Your initial reaction to the ruleset is natural, but if you just follow the line of thinking a bit more, you can come to a very happy conclusion. I'll do it from a guard perspective because I know its what you play, and I fancy myself a guard player as well.

First, guard as the attacker. Two months ago you may have been right, but its no coincidence that valkyries just came out. Valkyries loaded with veterans supported by astropaths make for a devastating attacker force. They don't have a focus on close combat. but with rocket pod valks and trip lascannon vendies, carrying trip meltagun and sometimes heavy flamer toting BS4 7 point guardsmen, you are going to lay an instantaneous hurtin' bomb on your opponent. Its fluffy, its fun, and its totally competitive.

Second, defending against termie assaults. Ok first off. If you don't take shrike, you'll need to actually land within 6" of a unit. As we have already seen with zagstruk and with vanguard veterans, this 'ability' is novel unless its combined with a locator beacon/teleport homer. If you took shrike, great, your chances at a first turn assault are increased. IG on the ground or IG mechanized don't really care that you've got a first turn assault, you will either be fed a 75 point line squad or a 55 point chimera, you'll win, consolidate in the open (won't be able to sweeping advance the line squad, who can GBITF and plasma you next turn) and then the rest of the army, including the 6 slots filled with leman russes, will open up on your terminators and you'll scoop them.

Now, assault terminators can and will be a competitive choice for an attacker. But if the attacker doesn't also take support for these units, then they are going to land, kill something (if their scatter was lucky) or mishap, then get shot to bits. Not to mention that as they deep strike they will all be shot by all of the automated guns that the defender gets that are on deep strike overwatch.

It's waaaay to early to pick a winning side, as far as i can tell, being the defender has more advantages, but much more responsibility, He gets to take all the defensive structures, but also has to protect them. The attacker doesn't have any responsibilities other than being able to maneuver rather quickly. But is also faced with a defender that set up the entire battlefield, and is defending a carefully planned structure. With 6 heavy support slots.


I can't wait. Heading to my LGS after work and hoping they've gotten their black box... then i'm going to drink it all in.

Every Imperial Guard player facing Assault Terminators is going to laugh, because they're *all* going to be fielding Inquisitor Lord w/ 3 Mystics in some vehicle near *squadrons* of Demolishers / Medusas / Executioners / Meltahounds / Vendettas.

That said, massed autogun BS2 Plasma Cannons would be pretty funny...

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

And some armies (read IG) are really good at defending. Sounds like a great scenario to me.

But what do I know, I'm just a naive optimist who is happy that GW is expanding the scope of the game, offering new scenarios for me to play, and giving me really cool terrain to play with.

Shep wrote:@Agamemnon2]First, guard as the attacker. Two months ago you may have been right, but its no coincidence that valkyries just came out.

I don't think there's any way "Guard as attacker" will be a close game unless your opponent goes really easy on you. The major advantages of being a Planetstrike attacker (extra elite slots, assault on the turn you land) are largely wasted on Guard. Valkyries are good, but they're not good enough.

That said, it seems to me that Planetstike's lack of balance will actually help ensure that players are more willing to allow handicaps. if I want to change things up and try a game on offense I would expect significant concessions from my opponent in exchange for me playing the attacker; if he's unwilling to bend the rules to make a more fair match, then we probably should just go back to "stock" 40k, which at least has some rudimentary level of balance.

Funny. One would think that planetstrike was made for selling Valyries.

But, since it's not supposed to be very competive, I could finally build my Ork Walkairr

Schepp himself wrote:Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

I'm actually one of the few people who could do that right off the bat, I can field 630 points of Ogryns (three five-man squads). Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero), Valkyries (none of these either), Psykers (no, nor these) or a Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Mystics (I own three Inquisitors, but no Mystics). I also can't field veterans with plasma guns (I don't own enough plasmagun models) or meltas (ditto). Aside from those deficits, I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Funny. One would think that planetstrike was made for selling Valyries.

Actually it was made to sell drop pods. I only need 8-10 more, and a second job

Dave47 wrote:I don't think there's any way "Guard as attacker" will be a close game unless your opponent goes really easy on you. The major advantages of being a Planetstrike attacker (extra elite slots, assault on the turn you land) are largely wasted on Guard. Valkyries are good, but they're not good enough.

what basis do you have for this? The games are still at set point values. Having 6 fast attack and 6 elites is not really going to come up for everyone. Being able to run 12 valkyries in squadrons no bigger than two is devastating. Since double astropath alpha strike IG is a completely viable competitive force even using the standard FOC, and we haven't even seen what attacker stratagems IG has access to.

how about i take the 4 point stratagem that lets me deep strike vehicles and i take 12 devildogs with heavy flamers. Along with my two astropaths. I don't think I'll need you to "take it easy" on me if I'm going to be deepstriking 12 meltacannons automatically on my first reserves roll.

Dave47 wrote:That said, it seems to me that Planetstike's lack of balance...

We've seen one review from an anonymous internet poster and planetstrike has been declared 'unbalanced'? Let's all just play some games first, before coming to that conclusion. In looking at the rumors, I have already seen some very powerful combos, but I'm also quick to see how many counters are already built in to codecies or in the defenders options in planetstrike. I'm sure every attacker will be pushing for first turn assaults in the first few weeks of the game, while every defender starts spamming overwatching guns to counter the short range DS spam. And then a shrewd attacker will realize that if you start farther back (or don't deep strike) then you can marginalize the spamming of the anti-DS guns. All of the new combos are there, but i haven't heard anyone talk about anything uncounterable yet.

Agamemnon2 wrote:[I can field 630 points of Ogryns (three five-man squads).

Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero), Valkyries (none of these either), Psykers (no, nor these) or a Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Mystics (I own three Inquisitors, but no Mystics). I also can't field veterans with plasma guns (I don't own enough plasmagun models) or meltas (ditto).

Aside from those deficits, I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

Well, I guess that explains your Win/Loss ratio...

I, on the other hand, have nearly a half-dozen Russes, a couple Bassies, 3 brand-new Valks, Inquisitor & Mystics, along with shedloads of formerly-droppable Plasma & Meltas supported by Hellhounds & Chimeras. I have no Ogryns nor Ratlings whatsoever, and all of my Storms are Inquisitional.

Naturally, I have done OK fielding Guard.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

windswept313 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Ok so my answer to this is i put up some BS2 Plasma Cannons. Im sure more of these will hit with a direct hit or even the scatter more so than if i fire a BS2 Heavy bolter at a termy. Making the assumption that just because attacker get this or that or Defender cant assault... blah blah blah... your forgetting so many things or just being cynical. All those Termies drop on the board your so afraid of and they assault on first turn... well looks like they are assaulting through alot of cover. They dont have frags so they are gonna get hit alot. That orbital Bombardment may scatter back on you. I like the fact that at initial glance it looks like the game is giving us a new way to play.. i surely am not going to count myself out of the game if im a defender.. Thats why i play this game to come up with lists and strategies that overcome big odds.

Well, congratulations to you, you're squarely in GW's target audience: a naive optimist.

LOL..The sky is falling..The sky is falling. Everything is horrible. Nothing will be good. I won't even give it a chance to have a possibility of having any redeeming qualities, and I will come to this conclusion before I ever see it or play it.

EDIT: I am looking forward to what this will add to game play. Sure looks like it could be a lot of fun. Plus, all the new terrain is very nice. My bank account won't think so.

Deep striking Guard with demo charges sound like a pretty good/hilarious way to ruin a defender's day.

Just throwing that out there to quell all the "IG can't attack" naysayers a little.

Can we get some images of the new artwork in the book? That's good stuff.

Wow, now I'll be able to use that big-ass fortress that I built (as soon as I paint it...)!! Looks cool, and it's open enough that we could just balance it out more with house-rules and game-specific changes(ex. if 'Nids want to defend and IG attack, something must be done to balance it out a bit).

Sounds awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident.

If you only play for fun, just shut the heck up! Leave all of us ""naive optimists" alone please.

Well I think it sounds great. Can't wait to get my hands on the book and, more importantly, the new terrain!!!

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

I was created (born) for this! Attack, defend, makes no difference to me. When it comes to fortifications, Iron Warriors are second to none.

SUCK IT DORN!

Your iron won't save you from the sons of russ.

Hey, anyone notic on the Chaos vs Guard page near the back, the Godseed or somthin. Look closely at the daemon prince, hes not the metal one! Hes got powered armor, a different torso than the warriors one, and looks incredible!!! I cant wait for the plastic 40k prince now..

Perturabo's Chosen wrote:IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

I was created (born) for this! Attack, defend, makes no difference to me. When it comes to fortifications, Iron Warriors are second to none.

SUCK IT DORN!

Where is your special codex now?

I could play two games of planetstrike as defenders and still have extra heavy support left over.

On a more serious note, Planetstrike games look more to be the sort played in gaming groups/ between friends, not as pickup games or in tournaments. They look to be more focus on rule #1 than any of the other rules: HAVE FUN!

Agamemnon2 wrote:Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero) I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

I have never ever heard of IG without their main famous tanks o_o ( even if they are hideously ugly )

what exactly do you fill the army with? like 600 guardsmen?