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Have people found any success playing part-mech and part-foot slogging in their armies?

I have, with black templars.

huge 20 man squads that slog. And then units in LRC as the mechanized element

Orks do it all the time. IG is the only hard counter with cover ignoring blasts and PBS.

What about Nidz with dakka fexes? What about mech SM or Lash spam? Or daemonic hordes? There are plenty of armies that can counter horde orks.

G

1. There are no vehicles in the Tyranid codex. You must have the 2013 version.

2. Nobody's even talking about horde Orks.

I am just listing armies that can beat orks, doesn't necessarily have to be mechanized. You have a tendency to over generalize and go OT when all else fails it seems.

G

orchewer wrote:Have people found any success playing part-mech and part-foot slogging in their armies?

My comments are in response to this quote. Try to stay on topic.

Nice try at the old switcheroo.

I figure that Mech vets with lascannons and plasma guns, maybe with Bastonne, would make really good objective holders. They can pillbox in their Chimera and can hold off MEQs and vehicles until the footsloggers move up.

Bastonne would be great because of his ability to issue orders. With BiD! he can help the squad fend off heavy vehicles and MCs. Harker may also be an option if you don't want Chimeras because he gives Infiltrate and Stealth and comes packing a Relentless heavy bolter.

Mahu wrote:There is a growing shift in the 40k Metagame that has started to make me ponder certain ideas.

Ever since the Guard hit the tables, people have been going more and more mechanized (not that this wasn't a trend to begin with). And why wouldn't you?

You wouldn't do it when the so-called "metagame" comes around again and your Mech list faces down the barrels of more autocannon, twin-linked autocannon, ordered autocannon, hidden, covered, painted and converted autocannon than is funny.

A Mech list without mobility is not going to impress anyone.

Of course, Chimeras do not only transport but help increase the resilience of Guardsmen. I am not sure whether those 65 points spent on another squad might not increase resilience just as much though.

Shotgun wrote:Orks and bugs will still be hard pressed to overwhelm mech gaurd. 65 points gets you 9 36" shots, and you still can get a HB from the unit -in- the transport. That's alot of dakka.

Only until you do the math. It'll kill about 2 Orks behind a KFF. Orks will be upon you in 3 turns, and that is marching up the field.

ifyouseekamy wrote:As an IG player who started a few months before the 5E dex, even I can tell how the meta has changed.

In 4e, Guard were about bringing massed infantry platoons and only using up the minimum 2 troops choices

Really? I thought people used lots of Vets back then?

In 5e, it's all about massed blobs of platoon guard,

Can't say I agree with you on orders but how is blobbed platoon guard an indication or proof of a trend to mechanize?

Khornatedemon wrote:
Orks and nids really dont have the answer to mech. Stealers and the one winged tyrant you can take dont do squat against a competent player. Most mech armies pack enough melta's, flamers, and bolters to counter both of those. I was playing nids at the start of 5th and started getting spanked by mech armies, especially those of the vulkan and lash variety. Orks can kill transports in CC sure, but unless they are packing boarding planks and vehicles once they do that they are exposed. I can make a wall of rhinos that pretty much makes sure your never able to completely surround my tanks and once you pop them your eating bolters and flamers, and orks dont like flamers.

I don't see why that would even be an issue. That wall of Rhinos means a multi-charge on all of them with possibly just a single mob. Mechanized is AV 10 (barring Land Raider spam), and that means you better stay out of charge range. Staying out of charge range means your opponent controls where you can safely go, and that isn't anywhere near the objectives. Without your transports, you won't get there, defeating one of the purposes of Mech. Making a wall and approaching is often hindered by terrain or damage.

Even if you fire all those flamers and bolters afterwards, I don't see what good that would do as long as the other mobs sit snugly on their objectives. And you're probably only firing once.

bigtmac68 wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think my horde CC Orks may actually be more viable now. Everyone around here is expecting to face mech lists, so they're going to be disappointed when they realise that meltaguns do squat to a mob of Slugga boyz.

No but my 4 big pie plates, 18 Flamers/Hvy Flamers, 4 plasma cannons and up to 200 shots per turn of infantry weapons do quite well.

In 2500 points, perhaps. In games below 2k, it will be much more difficult to pack enough of everything.

sourclams wrote:
2. Nobody's even talking about horde Orks.

Yes, we are. I just replied to some remarks about them.

Like the rest of you have been saying I agree that Mech is the current trend in 5th. On the other hand I think the reason the meta game is getting more skewed towards this type of playing is directly related to codex release dates and the context of the dexs. Armies with very competitive mech lists been the first ones to come out. So everyone is jumping on the bandweapon. Furthermore, the IG is the first of a whole new slew of dexs which are designed to be fully functional in apoc/planet strike games. (IMO) The inclusion of squadrons for tanks and valks and such allows them to integrate into these types of games easier. Unfortunately for those of us who play in normal 40k it allows for great levels of exploitation. IG gets 9 tanks where everyone else gets a max of 3. Also the armies that are traditionally good at killing mech haven't been updated yet. Once armies like necrons, nids, eldar and dark eldar are redone, I think things will change again hopefully to a more balanced metagame.

Horde CC Orks are probably not the answer to mech Guard. My 1750 list rocks 10 flamer templates, 10 plasma cannons, a big blast ignoring cover, 2 more fast moving big blasts, and a wall of armor to hide and protect all of it.

I'm a big fan of my opponent putting a horde army of any kind of the table across from me.

Caffran don't forget about the trusty manticore a mech list's answer to all things horde related!

Lash and PSB are part of the reason that mech is popular right now.

dietrich wrote:Lash and PSB are part of the reason that mech is popular right now.

The other part is how resilient vehicles are in the 5th edition rules, and the fewer penalties for passengers embarked. For example, they are no longer automatically "pinned" when their vehicle is destroyed. This is huge, because in CC, a unit is not locked after combat with a vehicle. If the attackers destroy a vehicle, the passengers bail out and blaze away at the attackers, who can do nothing but take it in the face.

Armies that rely on only CC to destroy vehicles have a tough time with this.

This thread has been reported. Lets avoid personal attacks and stay to the subject please gents and ladies.

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:

sourclams wrote:
2. Nobody's even talking about horde Orks.

Yes, we are. I just replied to some remarks about them.

Your replies are at least 1 codex behind the times. Horde Orks get squashed by Mech Guard. There's simply far too many templates for a footslogging CC horde to deal with, and the PBS simply nails the coffin shut.

I wonder if this means seeing more forgeworld titans, (warhounds of course.) I might even invest in one, maybe put on a double barreled turbo laser and a plasma blastgun. i mean, is that legal in a non-apocalypse game? it sure as hell seems worth the 640 pts.

crazypsyko666 wrote:I wonder if this means seeing more forgeworld titans, (warhounds of course.) I might even invest in one, maybe put on a double barreled turbo laser and a plasma blastgun. i mean, is that legal in a non-apocalypse game? it sure as hell seems worth the 640 pts.

In a word: NO!

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think my horde CC Orks may actually be more viable now. Everyone around here is expecting to face mech lists, so they're going to be disappointed when they realise that meltaguns do squat to a mob of Slugga boyz.

I have to agree, a mech list facing a 180 ork boyz list with nob bikers and stormboyz dropping in the rear areas denies transport movement. Tank shocking a 30 Boyz mob with another 30 Boyz mob near is dumb since the unit moves out of the way and then assaults. Even if the transport moved full the number of attacks will do something if not destroy the transport. 180 Ork infantry rush supported by Stormboyz and Nob Bikers and the Profit leading will crush most mech and anti-mech lists. IG Pie plates of death, there is only so much they can do in two turns and if you stormboyz and nob bikers they will have to make the choice to target the nobz and stormboys which will chew threw most armor while 180 orks charge up the front with a sure thing second round 12 inch movement.

If all else fails throw bodies at the situation.

Good mech lists these days have all the answers to horde armies built into them by nature. Mech IG has boat loads of blast weapons, cover ignoring blasts, and flamer templates. Mech marines (Vulkan especially) have lots of flamer templates and decent resilience in CC. Mech Eldar brings a fair few high ROF weapons, as well as very resilient and fast moving jetcouncils that boast lots of attacks and heavy flamer templates. Mech Chaos functions much in the same way as Mech Marines, except it also gets Lash. All of these lists have anti-horde built into them simply by being what they are.

Horde armies are hard pressed for answers to the majority of this.

Alpharius wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:I wonder if this means seeing more forgeworld titans, (warhounds of course.) I might even invest in one, maybe put on a double barreled turbo laser and a plasma blastgun. i mean, is that legal in a non-apocalypse game? it sure as hell seems worth the 640 pts.

In a word: NO!

would it be stupid to say they should allow ONE warhound in smaller games?
(counting as multiple heavy weapons choices)

The problem with Horde anything in the current Metagame is the amount of ignore cover templates that permeate the game now.

Assault Marines with Jump Packs used to be viable before the IG Dex. I had reasonably good success with using Rhinos and Land Raiders to shield them and their speed meant I could move them forward with the rest of the army and charge when needed.

First game I played against the new Guard a Colussus shell landed on target on that unit on turn two and wiped all but 2 off the table. Assault Marines went from a mildly competitive option to a "fun" only option. Had the same experience with Devestators.

You just can't deny the massive amount of protection a relatively cheap tank provides.

Yes, the number of templates and pie plates that ignore cover saves is difficult ot over come. However the issue is that they must either concentrate the shots on wiping out a unit or spread the damage out. But once you kill one unit another one comes right behind it and once you have them in CC that is where most Mech falls apart. Plus, most forget that massed infantry supported by hard hitting fast moving CC units such as Nob Bikers then the mob has a chance to cross the board.

Pipboy101 wrote:Yes, the number of templates and pie plates that ignore cover saves is difficult ot over come. However the issue is that they must either concentrate the shots on wiping out a unit or spread the damage out. But once you kill one unit another one comes right behind it and once you have them in CC that is where most Mech falls apart. Plus, most forget that massed infantry supported by hard hitting fast moving CC units such as Nob Bikers then the mob has a chance to cross the board.

Nob bikers are a thing of the past against IG.

PBS + a few lascannon shots or a pie plate or 2 will instakill 3 nobs and force a LD check at 2....say goodbye nobs and all their points.

Every Chimera now has a free Heavy Flamer built in, so large boys mobs are no problem either...especially if the passengers have a one or more template weapons, as well.

Storm boys will be able to pop one tank, then they die with their lousy save, since they will be stuck out in the open.

Horde orks really don't have a good answer to the new IG dex.

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:I wonder if this means seeing more forgeworld titans, (warhounds of course.) I might even invest in one, maybe put on a double barreled turbo laser and a plasma blastgun. i mean, is that legal in a non-apocalypse game? it sure as hell seems worth the 640 pts.

In a word: NO!

would it be stupid to say they should allow ONE warhound in smaller games?
(counting as multiple heavy weapons choices)

Base Forge World rules allow you to take one of their super-heavies as a 'second detachment' which reqires an army of 2000pts first. Which is 2640pt minimum, which is almost apoc anyway.

Of course, if your playing a kill-the-titan game, you can do whatever you and your opponent want.

You should run a squad of jump infantry with a meltagun and deep strike beside the Colussus.

G

Mahu wrote:The problem with Horde anything in the current Metagame is the amount of ignore cover templates that permeate the game now.

Assault Marines with Jump Packs used to be viable before the IG Dex. I had reasonably good success with using Rhinos and Land Raiders to shield them and their speed meant I could move them forward with the rest of the army and charge when needed.

First game I played against the new Guard a Colussus shell landed on target on that unit on turn two and wiped all but 2 off the table. Assault Marines went from a mildly competitive option to a "fun" only option. Had the same experience with Devestators.

You just can't deny the massive amount of protection a relatively cheap tank provides.

Green Blow Fly wrote:You should run a squad of jump infantry with a meltagun and deep strike beside the Colussus.

G

The Colossus is going in the corner most of the time and any respectable player will have enough brains to castle it and not let you get in melta range, even if you land on target. And if he has Mystics, well, that squad is as good as dead.

Duh?

Mars.Techpriest wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:I wonder if this means seeing more forgeworld titans, (warhounds of course.) I might even invest in one, maybe put on a double barreled turbo laser and a plasma blastgun. i mean, is that legal in a non-apocalypse game? it sure as hell seems worth the 640 pts.

In a word: NO!

would it be stupid to say they should allow ONE warhound in smaller games?
(counting as multiple heavy weapons choices)

Base Forge World rules allow you to take one of their super-heavies as a 'second detachment' which reqires an army of 2000pts first. Which is 2640pt minimum, which is almost apoc anyway.

Of course, if your playing a kill-the-titan game, you can do whatever you and your opponent want.

yeah, but that's kinda the problem i have with it. if it could be used in smaller games, say.... 1500 point games NOT adding their cost into the mix, so NOT a 2140 point game, and count as multiple heavy weapons options, it would be at least a somewhat valid alternative to having a million tanks. and in smaller games, the minimum range would balance it out considerably due to having less board space, (possibly, I've never tried it, mostly speculation.)

I mean, at the very worst it'll become the turret from hell, but on a medium sized board it could have some useful applications without being overpowering considering the point values. that's almost three land raiders. maybe they add an extra point charge for having it in an army that's less than 2000 points? this is all just sort of speculation, but it could add variety to the game, and i've always liked the idea of one titan instead of massive amounts of tanks.

Also: wouldn't this just be the perfect setup for them to make an adeptus mechanicus army? lol