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Pit an Eversor against 3 Death Cult Assassins?
Eversor gets 4 or 5. Death Cult assasins get anywhere between 12 to 15, power weapon attacks. I think Death Cult Assasins win. (Also Fearless)

Well...

First off, for the same points of an Eversor, you can only take 2.5 DCA (actually, slighly less). Second, you gave the DCA the charge when the Eversor charges farther for the same base movement.

Eversor has the following advantages:
- Bolt Pistol
- 12" charge
- +d6 attacks when charging
- T4 (vs T3)
- Sv4++ (vs Sv5++)
As the Eversor has the charge advantage, he will likely dictate the conditions of engagement and get the charge.


First, the Eversor shoots (twice) for 1.6 hits, wounding ~1, doing 0.6 wounds. So it's now more like 1 Eversor vs 2 DCA. When the Eversor charges, he will get 4+d6 attacks (7.5 attacks), hitting with ~4, wounding 2.5 times, for 2 wounds, killing 1 DCA. The 2 DCA would simul with 3A each, or 6 attacks, hitting ~3, wounding ~1.5 times, for 0.75 wound. The Everor did 2 wounds in HtH, taking 1, so the remaining DCA probably loses another wound due to being Fearless. At the first round, Eversor scored 60+ VPs, giving up ~40 VPs.

Second round, Eversor has 4 attacks, 2 hit, 1.3 wounds, killing the DCA. The DCA simuls with 3A, hitting 1.5, wounding 0.75, for 0.4 wounds - not quite killing the Eversor in return.

On net, the Eversor outperforms the DCA on a point-for-point basis.


But really, the roles are different. The Eversor is best used to hunt high-T MCs like Wraithlords, Carnifexes - things that DCA have zero chance against. Also, the Eversor runs hot or cold due to the +d6A on the charge, where the DCA are a little bit more consistent.

That said, when I take an Elite Assassin for my IG, it's always an Eversor, even though I have the models to field 3 DCA if I wanted to.

I've used both Callidus and Vindicare in past battles. Nothing recent. I'd have to say that both have done some impressive things in the past.

I've used the Callidus to move an opponents troops to the point where she can kill off my target unit, and not worry about getting killed off my a big baddie around.

For the Vindicare, I usually used him to pick of specialty troops (melta, missle launcher, etc). One game my friends and I organized, it was 1 Vindicare vs 1 IG Command HQ and 2 squads. Object was to assassinate the HQ commander. The best part was we made it where a ref observed and my opponent had to guess where the Vindicare was. I'd take the shot w/the ref watching, then move him. Interesting game.

I'd say if I'm going against Orks and IG-> I'd take a Callidus. SM and CSM ->Vindicare.

Love em both tho. Never played w/Eversor....

Oh, I've fielded Callidus, and she's not terrible, but very situational.

The Vindicare, I think I only fielded him once.

But now that there's one can field huge numbers of Psykers via PBS, I might field my Culexus...

@JohnHwangDD: DCA are only 40points each, and get 4 attacks, 3 base and 1 for additional weapon. 8 attacks (I'm assuming he vs 2 DCA at same time) Vs his 6-7 or so. Makes it fairly even. (whoops, just realised they only get 4 if they charge).

Don't know if combi-weapons count as additional close combat weapons.

Hang on.
1) DCA charge: 8 attacks, 4 hit, 2 wound. 1 save failed.
Eversor, 3-4 attacks. 2 hit. 1-2 wound. 1 save failed. (Probably) so it's a tie.

2) Eversor Charge: 'bout 7 attacks. 3-4 hit. 2-3 wound. 2 failed saves (or so). 1 dead.
DCA, 6 attakcs, 3 hit, 1-2 wound. 1 fail.
Eversor wins, another wound lost by DCA (both have to take a wound)

I'd say very close if the DCA charge (as Eversor only has 2 wounds and could easily die next phase), but DCA would mostly be pawned if they get charged.

As we all know though, calculating the dice never works out in real life. All too often I have heard "Right, I'm rolling 6 die so at least 1 should be a six..." followed by a clatter of dice, then a loud groan.

First off, you need a copy of C: DH (p.25) or C: WH (p.32). I have both, and in my copies, DCA have only A2 on the statline with 2 CCWs for a total of 3 attacks each (4 when charging).

Eversor has a PW and a Neuro-Gauntlet (CCW) for HtH, so he has A3+1 = 4 attacks before his bonus d6 attacks for charging. So he should have 7 or 8 attacks when charging.

When you give the DCA the best case of charging, and they only draw the first round, that's not very impressive, because the next round, they don't have charge bonus.

But where things really would show a difference would be against Plague Marines or some other tough HtH unit. You take either unit because you need a countercharger, and the Eversor just does a better job for the points.

That is why Eversor is "better" when you can only take one Elite Assassin.

When playing Apoc, the Assassin temple is pretty awesome...

Also, (IIRC) Eversor WS 5, DCA WS 4, Eversor hits on a 3+. ANd, isn't there an Init difference, I5 vs I4, so the Eversor is probably not going to be receiving all their attacks....?

Kitzz wrote:Hmm...this is very interesting when it comes to ignoring targets. I didn't know that you could target your own units...maybe shooting that damned mistress out of a repentia squad might actually make them good?

Anyway, I was wondering about shooting models that are inside of vehicles. Sure, they'd get a 4+ cover save, but it's always nice to deal with units in an interesting way. *Invokes Gwar* Is this allowed using the Vindicare's rules?

If you can shoot at models in vehicles then due to a special rule their 4+ save becomes a 5+ but that would be pretty cool i'll have to wait for Gwar to reply to make sure.

don_mondo wrote:Also, (IIRC) Eversor WS 5, DCA WS 4, Eversor hits on a 3+. ANd, isn't there an Init difference, I5 vs I4, so the Eversor is probably not going to be receiving all their attacks....?

Both are WS 5 and Init 5. The only difference is the eversor has +1 attack and a 4+ invo rather than a 5+. If my calculation were correct, then (If it came down to a war of attrition) the Eversor would lose (if charged) as he can't give a wound for everyone he takes.
He has 2 wounds.
2 DCA have 4 wounds (together).

First off, the Eversor takes fewer wounds because:
- he's T4, not T3
- he has a S4 gun that always double-taps, in addition to being able to fight
- he charges farther, so he usually gets the charge bonus while denying the enemy their charge bonus

Secondly, as your numbers show above, the Eversor should draw the first round of combat when he is charged, which is not at all the same as losing.

I think the most important issue here, is to use whichever one John doesn't. We're here to be right people, not to determine a tactical advatange.

This thread has gone off topic a bit....

RxGhost wrote:I think the most important issue here, is to use whichever one John doesn't. We're here to be right people, not to determine a tactical advatange.

In that case, take the Culexus, as that's the only one I haven't fielded to date.

(for the record, I've fielded DCA in the past)

Gwar! wrote:

God Of Yams wrote:

Demogerg wrote:I wish I could take assassins as Space Wolves,
Eversor + wolf scouts using OBEL with meltabombs = lol

and i definately like the vindicare marksman ability, or even Telion in a scout squad for that matter.

You know you can take them with space wolves, right? As long as you pay for the Inquisitor Lord as well...

Oh, no you didn't! You corrected Demogerg on a SW issue.... That's like Correcting Madoff on how to run a Ponzi Scheme, or Correcting me on a Rules issue :3

Space Wolves CANNOT take Inquisitor Lords, because Allies may not Fill Compulsory Slots. All a Space Wolves HQ slots are Compulsory, because we follow our own special rules, and do not use the FoC for HQ.

Ahh but Gwar you can take a normal Inquisitor. He takes an elites slot. NOT, mind you, an HQ slot.

Cryonicleech wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

God Of Yams wrote:

Demogerg wrote:I wish I could take assassins as Space Wolves,
Eversor + wolf scouts using OBEL with meltabombs = lol

and i definately like the vindicare marksman ability, or even Telion in a scout squad for that matter.

You know you can take them with space wolves, right? As long as you pay for the Inquisitor Lord as well...

Oh, no you didn't! You corrected Demogerg on a SW issue.... That's like Correcting Madoff on how to run a Ponzi Scheme, or Correcting me on a Rules issue :3

Space Wolves CANNOT take Inquisitor Lords, because Allies may not Fill Compulsory Slots. All a Space Wolves HQ slots are Compulsory, because we follow our own special rules, and do not use the FoC for HQ.

Ahh but Gwar you can take a normal Inquisitor. He takes an elites slot. NOT, mind you, an HQ slot.

Well, looking at the wording, Gwar is still technically right...

He only said SW couldn't take Inquisitor Lords and not that they couldn't take assassins.

At least I was almost right originally, that's a start...sort of...

He's right that he cannot take anything actually.

Inquisitors are elites choices, and you're only allowed 1 elites choice for allies. My bad.

Ah, but according to this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/246870.page You can take both Witch Hunter and Daemonhunter allies. It seems to be stretching the rules a little bit, but if that's true then it doesn't matter what faction they're a part of, as long as it's an inquisitor. Take a Witch hunter inquisitor and a Daemonhunter assassin.

However, even if that's legal, it seems like a dick move.

Excellent then!

God Of Yams wrote:Ah, but according to this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/246870.page You can take both Witch Hunter and Daemonhunter allies. It seems to be stretching the rules a little bit, but if that's true then it doesn't matter what faction they're a part of, as long as it's an inquisitor. Take a Witch hunter inquisitor and a Daemonhunter assassin.

However, even if that's legal, it seems like a dick move.

That is a very good point..... I think I might have to try that....
heh heh heh....

@JohnDwangDD: I don't like cculexus either. However, Eversor is T4, right? DCA are ST4, but only T3, I did take that into account while calculatting. (And rember, 2 DCA are slightly less than the points worth of an Eversor. I am simply saying that they are more cost effective. (and cool...well, sort of...in fact all but the Culexus and Vindicare with pistol are cool models).