Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

God Of Yams wrote:

Demogerg wrote:I wish I could take assassins as Space Wolves,
Eversor + wolf scouts using OBEL with meltabombs = lol

and i definately like the vindicare marksman ability, or even Telion in a scout squad for that matter.

You know you can take them with space wolves, right? As long as you pay for the Inquisitor Lord as well...

Oh, no you didn't! You corrected Demogerg on a SW issue.... That's like Correcting Madoff on how to run a Ponzi Scheme, or Correcting me on a Rules issue :3

Space Wolves CANNOT take Inquisitor Lords, because Allies may not Fill Compulsory Slots. All a Space Wolves HQ slots are Compulsory, because we follow our own special rules, and do not use the FoC for HQ.

Don't be so hasty in presuming that a vindicare can just pick something and take it off the table. A lot of HQs are unvulnerable to instant death.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which codex is a vindicare assassin in? Could someone PM me? I'm headed out for the 4th and won't be able to check the forums for a few days. I looked through IG and space marine and didn't find it.

Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters

Vindi gets the nod from me, as it reminds me of Joe Pineapples!

Dashofpepper wrote:Don't be so hasty in presuming that a vindicare can just pick something and take it off the table. A lot of HQs are unvulnerable to instant death.

So? Nothing the Vindicare uses does Instant Death. He has an AP2 Sniper Rifle and 3 Special Rounds. 1 Ignores Invul Saves, 1 Wounds on a 2+ and one causes 2 Wounds.

Gwar! wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Don't be so hasty in presuming that a vindicare can just pick something and take it off the table. A lot of HQs are unvulnerable to instant death.

So? Nothing the Vindicare uses does Instant Death. He has an AP2 Sniper Rifle and 3 Special Rounds. 1 Ignores Invul Saves, 1 Wounds on a 2+ and one causes 2 Wounds.

Not sure if you're just trolling to boost your post count or something, but my post was in response to the poster previous to me who noted that the vindicare assassin could basically nominate a model on the table and take it off via a sniper round.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Don't be so hasty in presuming that a vindicare can just pick something and take it off the table. A lot of HQs are unvulnerable to instant death.

So? Nothing the Vindicare uses does Instant Death. He has an AP2 Sniper Rifle and 3 Special Rounds. 1 Ignores Invul Saves, 1 Wounds on a 2+ and one causes 2 Wounds.

Not sure if you're just trolling to boost your post count or something, but my post was in response to the poster previous to me who noted that the vindicare assassin could basically nominate a model on the table and take it off via a sniper round.

Yes, he was referring to the Hit/Wound on 2 Round. If the Character has only 1 wound left because of previous attacks, that is pretty much guaranteed to take them off.

I thought the Vindi wounded on a 4+ Gwar.

Or are you talking about using the Special round in tandem with targeting a hero with one wound and hitting/wounding on a 2+?

BrotherStynier wrote:I thought the Vindi wounded on a 4+ Gwar.

Or are you talking about using the Special round in tandem with targeting a hero with one wound and hitting/wounding on a 2+?

Yes, I am. You can of course use the previous 2 rounds to attempt to pick him off normally.

Ok I was just double checking for some reason.

You could use the 2 wounds round one turn then the wounds on a 2 too finish the Target off next turn provided he took the two wounds from the Turbo Penetrator(?)

makes me sad that space wolves can't take assassins, I remember the good ole days with codex assassins.

Anyways I'm still a huge calladus fan from an IG perspective. Sure she's an almost guaranteed kill point, but then again she is one of the easiest ways to counter many of those things that really put the hurt on IG from range. Got a unit of broadsides in the corner killing your tanks, oh look they die in CC. Warwalkers, not a problem. Heck she can potentially take out landraiders, battlewagons and vehicle squadrons with her shredder if you get lucky. It is AP 1 so a 6 still wrecks a vehicle. Sure she made be a little hard to use effectively, but I think she is well worth it. Not to mention word in your ear is awesome.

I think the vindicare is actually one of the worst assassins.

He looks cool and has some neat rules, but if you start mathhammering you get really disappointing results.

For instance, he is actually very unlikely to ever kill enemy HQs. He wounds on a +4 and only shoots once per turn, so that means you need 9 game turns to kill a 3W model with a 4+ invulnerable save. You can bump that down to 7 or 8 turns by using his special ammo, but that still isn't a good average at all.

His anti-vehicle ammo is sort of lame too. 3d6 for armor penetration only comes out to 9 or 10 on average.

Keep in mind he can also be splattered easily by pretty much any heavy weapon that bothers to shoot at him.

The Callidus and Eversor are both better. The Callidus is far superior at killing HQ models if that is what you want to do. It can deep strike anywhere with no scatter and assault that same turn. It also has a weapon that ignores armor and invulnerable saves. Now THAT is how you kill those pesky HQ guys.

Mike Leon wrote:I think the vindicare is actually one of the worst assassins.

He looks cool and has some neat rules, but if you start mathhammering you get really disappointing results.

For instance, he is actually very unlikely to ever kill enemy HQs. He wounds on a +4 and only shoots once per turn, so that means you need 9 game turns to kill a 3W model with a 4+ invulnerable save. You can bump that down to 7 or 8 turns by using his special ammo, but that still isn't a good average at all.

His anti-vehicle ammo is sort of lame too. 3d6 for armor penetration only comes out to 9 or 10 on average.

Keep in mind he can also be splattered easily by pretty much any heavy weapon that bothers to shoot at him.

The Callidus and Eversor are both better. The Callidus is far superior at killing HQ models if that is what you want to do. It can deep strike anywhere with no scatter and assault that same turn. It also has a weapon that ignores armor and invulnerable saves. Now THAT is how you kill those pesky HQ guys.

The trick to using hte vindicare is not to drop HQs, but to nuder the special weapons, heavy weapons, powerfists, etc from rank and file squads that are threatening your army.

If i was running nilla marines i might take a vindicare and telion in a land raider list and use them just to kill melta troops, "oh you have 2 guys with melta that will be in range next turn to blast my land raider? Well im going to shoot him with telion, and the other one with my vindicare, have fun dealing with AV14 now."

in my eyes there are only 2 real options here.

callidus is very good at being annoying, facing psykers or not she can move a unit before the game starts, she can appear anywhere and she is pretty good in CC.

i always shoot for the eversor though, pure mindless mayhem with the skull mask man.

culexus is nice, but really only if you are facing a psyker heavy army or an army that intensely depends on it's high leadership. Might be useful as a counter to MystInq??? Nah, I dont think so. But bears contemplation.

Vindicare is nice if you use it right. Also, has a better chance than eversor or culexus of having enemy in it's SOI (being ranged weapon oriented, that's a "duh.")

Callidus is annoying, and can force the enemy to dedicate forces to wiping her ass out. She can be decently dual purpose in that you can send her after hard targets in CC with the ctan phase sword, or do some crowd control with the neural shredder. Of course she becomes a one-use wonder, so make sure you get the points back and don't get too attached, eh?

Death Cult Assasins! Best distraction EVA!!!

And once in a while they actually do something to, and pay for thier cheap points (40pts).

Mekboy wrote:Nope, you get to choose the facing of a tank you move. I remember this, because in apoc once someone bought a warlord, and we took 4 callidus assassins. 1 turn later, and the titan stood no more.

Uhhhmmm, that would be a special Apoc rule only available if you take the assassin formation and a certain number of Callidus assassins. It is not a 40K rule useable in a game with a single callidus assassin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dumplingman wrote:makes me sad that space wolves can't take assassins, I remember the good ole days with codex assassins.

Anyways I'm still a huge calladus fan from an IG perspective. Sure she's an almost guaranteed kill point, but then again she is one of the easiest ways to counter many of those things that really put the hurt on IG from range. Got a unit of broadsides in the corner killing your tanks, oh look they die in CC. Warwalkers, not a problem. Heck she can potentially take out landraiders, battlewagons and vehicle squadrons with her shredder if you get lucky. It is AP 1 so a 6 still wrecks a vehicle. Sure she made be a little hard to use effectively, but I think she is well worth it. Not to mention word in your ear is awesome.

That would be true except that the Neural Shredder is an automatic -4 to the die roll............ So a 6 becomes Weapon Destroyed (6-4+1=3) , unless the vehicle is open-topped as well, then it's immobilized.

WH FAQ:
Q. With the new vehicle damage table, how does
the neural shredder work against vehicles?
A. As there isn’t a Glancing Hits table anymore,
simply roll on the vehicle damage table, at -4.

This is something my friend figured out early on, after the PBS got announced. If you reduce their Leadership, then you shoot them with a the Calladus' Neural Shredder, you can wound 2+ and instant death things that shouldn't be instant deathed. Nothing that has Eternal Warrior, but things that are T6 and over.

Yep. Did you know that the Eldar Avatar does not have Eternal Warrior.....................?

My Greater Daemon doesn't either. It also doesn't let my Plague Marines get FnP, Cover or Armor saves. FML, yeh?

Eversor is simple to use and always seems to earn his points back, so I like him.

Eversor was my first assasin, and holds a dear place in my heart for the sheer carnage he can wreak. However, at least in the old days, he became a MANDOTORY target for the enemy. On the one hand that has its own advantages, but on the other I just dont like using an assasin as a flak magnet.

Mike Leon wrote:I think the vindicare is actually one of the worst assassins.

He looks cool and has some neat rules, but if you start mathhammering you get really disappointing results.

For instance, he is actually very unlikely to ever kill enemy HQs. He wounds on a +4 and only shoots once per turn, so that means you need 9 game turns to kill a 3W model with a 4+ invulnerable save. You can bump that down to 7 or 8 turns by using his special ammo, but that still isn't a good average at all.

HQs aren't what you want to kill-- you should usually be looking to pick off unit leaders, special and heavy weapons, and so on. Multiwound models, except Ork Nobs leading Boyz squads, are generally bad targets for a Vindicare, turbo-penetrator aside. In one game, for example, my Vindicare killed an enemy Rhino with his turbo-penetrator (four Chaos guys died in the blast thanks to very poor saves on my opponent's part), picked off an Aspiring Champion w/ plasma pistol and power sword (Hellfire), delivered the final wound to an injured Obliterator (Shield-Breaker), and sniped a plasma gunner out of another Chaos Marine squad (standard). That assassin easily earned his points back, and had a great psychological effect on the enemy as well-- even though he never pinned any enemy units, my opponent was (rightfully) bewildered at having one of his tanks destroyed and his flank attack halted by a sniper that he didn't even consider a threat!

Mike Leon wrote:His anti-vehicle ammo is sort of lame too. 3d6 for armor penetration only comes out to 9 or 10 on average.

The turbo-penetrator round isn't just 3d6, though- it's 3+3d6, and every d6 potentially counts for Rending. So the "average" roll on 3d6, 10.5 (3.5*3), yields an AP of 13.5, or a penetrating hit on most vehicles. Further, you have a roughly 42% chance of rending, which inflicts an additional d3 penetration. The turbo-penetrator round is in fact an extraordinarily powerful anti-tank weapon.

Mike Leon wrote:Keep in mind he can also be splattered easily by pretty much any heavy weapon that bothers to shoot at him.

Well, like all Assassins, the Vindicare has a 4+ invulnerable save, and thus always has at least some chance to survive, even against heavy weapons. Further, his stealth suit makes it very unlikely that a heavy weapon will in fact be able to target him, at least not from long distance-- since he's a sniper, long distance is where he likes to stay.

Im trying to decide which one to. It will probably be callidus for the rules or vindicare for coolness (although he cant kill a farseer :p)

No!
You get two Death-Cult Assassins! And points are dead cheap!

callidus ftw


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

God Of Yams wrote:

Demogerg wrote:I wish I could take assassins as Space Wolves,
Eversor + wolf scouts using OBEL with meltabombs = lol

and i definately like the vindicare marksman ability, or even Telion in a scout squad for that matter.

You know you can take them with space wolves, right? As long as you pay for the Inquisitor Lord as well...

Oh, no you didn't! You corrected Demogerg on a SW issue.... That's like Correcting Madoff on how to run a Ponzi Scheme, or Correcting me on a Rules issue :3

Space Wolves CANNOT take Inquisitor Lords, because Allies may not Fill Compulsory Slots. All a Space Wolves HQ slots are Compulsory, because we follow our own special rules, and do not use the FoC for HQ.

GWAR is like 100% right(i just wanna be on that list)!!!

Personally my favourite is the Eversor, as he is the only assassin with melta-bombs, he can have a potential 10 power attacks on the charge, he always wounds on 4+, and when he dies, he blows up!!! Plus he is the cheapest in points and has such a cool model.

An odd tactic ive used before with the Vindicare is to shoot my own troops out of combat, so that the now unengaged enemy can now be shot in the same phase, and because they're all bunched up from the combat, they make a perfect target for Ordinance blasts

Hmm...this is very interesting when it comes to ignoring targets. I didn't know that you could target your own units...maybe shooting that damned mistress out of a repentia squad might actually make them good?

Anyway, I was wondering about shooting models that are inside of vehicles. Sure, they'd get a 4+ cover save, but it's always nice to deal with units in an interesting way. *Invokes Gwar* Is this allowed using the Vindicare's rules?

Valkyrie wrote:Personally my favourite is the Eversor, as he is the only assassin with melta-bombs, he can have a potential 10 power attacks on the charge, he always wounds on 4+, and when he dies, he blows up!!! Plus he is the cheapest in points and has such a cool model.

Wrong! Again, for any one of these guys you could get 2-3 death-cult assasins! Pawnage with powerswords!

Death Cult Assassins aren't as points efficient as the Eversor because they don't have the extra charge range. Also, they won't shred MCs because they lack the Neuro Gauntlet.