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Where are you going for semi's?

Might get to play against some nurgle if you are coming to Cleveland TN.

SsevenN wrote:I have. The trapped rule specificaly EXCLUDES the unit that was engaged in CC with the falling back unit. As in that unit cannot 'trap' the falling back unit. The BRB SPECIFICALLY says that the previously engaged unit has 'missed their chance'.

OTHER units can trap big d but he falls back in any direction he chooses, and his average fall back will be 7" which means you would need to pack an entire 14" diameter bubble with units that were NOT engaged in CC with big D the turn he misdirects.

Good luck

That is what I have been saying you - you surround him with another unit. It's easy to form up a 7" corridor around him with daemonic hordes and I have done it more than once.

Clay Williams wrote:Where are you going for semi's?

Might get to play against some nurgle if you are coming to Cleveland TN.

There's actually a local store in Atlanta that is getting to host the semi's this year, so we'll be there in all probability.

deleted.

SsevenN wrote:I have. The trapped rule specificaly EXCLUDES the unit that was engaged in CC with the falling back unit. As in that unit cannot 'trap' the falling back unit. The BRB SPECIFICALLY says that the previously engaged unit has 'missed their chance'.

OTHER units can trap big d but he falls back in any direction he chooses, and his average fall back will be 7" which means you would need to pack an entire 14" diameter bubble with units that were NOT engaged in CC with big D the turn he misdirects.

Good luck



That is what I have been saying you - you surround him with another unit. It's easy to form up a 7" corridor around him with daemonic hordes and I have done it more than once.

If you are piling this many units around big D to trap him in, then he is doing his job and tying up a large portion of your army.

Bah it only takes a few Plauge Bearers to wreak Big D's fun. Thats why I never leave home with less than 60.

Well, See you in the finals then?

Yeah plague swords still rock. Necrons don't like daemons.

I actually had a big long reply written out, but thought better of it. I was the guy playing the Daemons. I am not going to waste a bunch of time arguing with a theoryhammer40k player who doesnt understand simple math.

Nice try though.



Clay

Clay Williams wrote:Bah it only takes a few Plauge Bearers to wreak Big D's fun. Thats why I never leave home with less than 60.

Well, See you in the finals then?

Yeah, I had big D charge 13 plague bearers to lock them in place for a turn... completely forgetting they had poisoned weapons and could hurt me. I whiffed all of my attacks, then they immediately proceeded to cut off the Deceiver's head. The explosion got some, at least.

And hopefully! Has the location of the finals been announced yet? I've been lazy and haven't been keeping track.

Last I heard it was chicago this time. That isnt 2 terribly bad. Unfortunatly I am the only one from my gaming group who got a spot in the semi's due to work or other things.

I guess if I make the finals again this year I will start looking around for someone to carpool with.

Ugh, that's actually pretty far from Atlanta for a 2nd trip in a year. Of course, I haven't even qualified yet, so I may not have a choice!

We need as many southerners up there as possible.

I guess all this talk of daemons krumping necrons has me confused. They are my best matchup. I massacre them every time, even when good players play them. Their saves just aren't good enough. Maybe it's the nature of my list, but that's what happens.

Yeah I will agree the Khorn and Tzeench demons would have it rough against necrons. Nurgle though has an easier time of it with thier 5 toughness and FNP.

Even more so with Fateweaver... that is three saves per wound on average.

As long as you can keep Fateweaver safe from the Deceiver who will kill him in 1 close combat phase......Fateweaver is weak against the Deceiver.....



Clay

X is weak against the Deceiver, where X is anything.

Krootman wrote:Why is his farseer even in combat, he should be able to wrap around the deceaver with bikes so that his farseer doesn't see combat. (Assuming other units don't add on)

I'm a bit confused as to how this is accomplished. Don't you have to move ICs into b2b before any other members of the unit? Those bikes that are around the deceaver have to be 1" away so there should be a spot around him somewhere for the farseer to fit in, right?

X is weak against the Deceiver, where X is anything.

Truth

There are lots of ways to kill C'tan that cost much less such as snipers, plague bearers, Skulltaker, GKGM, etc. You must also consider the Y which is greater than the star god.

Have you ever faced the Deceiver? From what you write here, it seems you don't even know his rules.


Snipers, yes, they could kill him. But it isn't as easy as it was in 4th edition, when they hit on 2s.

Plaguebearers, and Skulltaker? No chance. Not because they can't roll the right dice and kill him in CC, but because a good player will NEVER let you into CC with those models. They charge, he leaves combat, they roll no dice. Is that clear enough for you? It's a power, it's called Misdirect. When you charge, he rolls 2d6, and moves OUT OF COMBAT. So Skulltaker doesnt get to fight, neither do the Plaguebearers, unless the Necron player wants to.



Stop playing theoryhammer40k, and go find someone who can play this list, and then show us a battrep. Heck, come down to Atlanta and play our resident Necron pro, thats a matchup I would love to hear about.


Noone is saying the army is tops, or can smash anything it comes into contact with, what we are saying, is that it's not easymode like you make it out to be.



Clay

If Big D can't assault then what good he is versus an opponent that knows how to counter him? And how do you know I have not played your pro?

Now I am beginning to question your reading comprehension. What I said was, YOU CANT ASSAULT HIM. I never said he couldnt assault you. He is going to choose which units he wants to assault.

Maybe you have, but based on your assumptions about how his list plays, I seriously doubt it, at least not against his Necrons.



Clay

A good opponent will not let you choose what you get to assault. It sounds like you have been racking up wins clubbing baby seals.

Wait, 3 of the 4 ways you gave to kill Big D, all involved you getting into CC with him, which clearly, if you knew the rules, you can't. Yet now you counter with the statement above about good players not letting you get into cc?

Thats what I have been telling you for a couple of posts now, thanks for making my point. Your counters to Big D, aren't going to work, except MAYBE the Snipers, and thats assuming again, that the Necron is an idiot and just stands there and lets you do it.




Clay

skipdog172 wrote:

Krootman wrote:Why is his farseer even in combat, he should be able to wrap around the deceaver with bikes so that his farseer doesn't see combat. (Assuming other units don't add on)

I'm a bit confused as to how this is accomplished. Don't you have to move ICs into b2b before any other members of the unit? Those bikes that are around the deceaver have to be 1" away so there should be a spot around him somewhere for the farseer to fit in, right?

Well your right, but vs something that is a lot slower then you (the deceiver) you can move in such a way that it will be physically impossible to get the seer into contact with the deceiver if he chooses to charge it. (especially if you take a bigger squad of jet bikes) Now im not saying this will always be the case but if you position right you should be able to keep the farseer out of combat.

As for the deceiver, hes a pretty powerful character that has a lot of nifty tricks, most notably being to pick what he fights in cc. However if you know what your doing it should not be much of a stretch to keep things it wants to charge out of its range, if you have poped monos or you know the necron player needs to move his warriors threw them you can set up some units in a way where he cant actually move to get into combat with something he wants to fight.

Now some people would say "then deceiver has done his job by tieing up a large part of your army. I would argue that depending on the mission and the deployment your actually tieing up the deceiver from attacking combat heavy units that warriors have no chance vs and that can pop monos in cc. Of course we could argue back and 4th about this but thats not my point. My point is that while hes a monster alot of the higher tier armies commanded by cleaver players should be able to keep him from doing what the cron player wants him to do.

ICs only need to move first during pile-in and defenders react moves, not in an assault move. It's pretty easily to manipulate things to keep a character out of combat if you don't want him fighting as long as you have a big enough unit.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:
A good opponent will not let you choose what you get to assault. It sounds like you have been racking up wins clubbing baby seals.

Your lack of understanding is unsettling. Go read the Necron Codex and you will see what we are talking about. The Deciever leaves combat 2D6 inches in YOUR turn and then gets to move and assault in his own turn. Creating on average a 19 inch assault bubble. That's quite a distance to avoid.

Well, not to insult the C'Tan (I play the NB), a good way to kill them is to use the Chaos psychic power that turns a model into a Chaos Spawn. End of story.

You have to get very close to spawn a star god and then your opponent has to roll a 6. It's not something I would count on to eliminate him but I've seen it happen more than once.

I always love a great battle versus Necrons so it's just my competitive nature to pick on Necron players. I don't mean to be a jerk and apologize from coming across briskly. I have played Necrons myself and have to say it's still a strong army in the hands of a good general. That said taking only two troop choices is very risky in Ard Boyz. I know you can recycle the heck out of them but over the course of the game they can be worn down. If they do get caught in an assault an entire unit can go bye bye real quick. The list presented here was very strong back in 4th edition and it has all the key ingredients for success back in the day. Destroyers are just plain sick and they have always been a thorn in my side when I fight against them. Personally I would trade the star god for a Lord with a couple of Spyders to extend their WBB bubble. That is just me though.

I have fought against Necrons many times and many of those games were versus very good players. I think I have only lost once to Necrons. That doesn't mean I think the race is rubbish, to me it simply means I understand them very well in my opinion. I certainly respect anyone who has stuck with them and is still having a lot of success. You have to admit they got hit hard with the nerf bat with the advent of 5th edition and their new FAQ. It doesn't mean they are stinking it up on the tables by any means. It's just that they were inherently much stronger prior to 5th edition. In fact Kirby won the 1st Ard Boyz with Necrons against a tri holo falcon army in the finals. That is a living testament to what the army could do.

Now about star gods, certainly they are still right strong and I prefer the Nightbringer... He is as old school as it gets and I appreciate that immensely. He is more expensive and there is a reason for that. What I like best about the Deceiver is the ability to redeploy. That is very powerful in it's own right and I often see people playing not take full advantage against. You can start your whole army in reserve so that has weakened the ability to redeploy. If you are playing against the Big D you have to be aware of that power and plan accordingly. You have to play your whole army against Necrons in general to be successful. I know how to counter the Big D and those tactics of mine have not changed over time... The little tricks up my proverbial sleeve still work well for me.