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I like BA to be disciplined, with Assault Marine Troops as their differentiator from Blue Scouts vs. Dark Termies & Bikes.

I don't like it.., BA includes 2 assault squads per battle company just like almost everyone else..
Why change? I just dont get it.

If I wanted to play 2 Assault squads per company, I'd play blue marines.

Perhaps GW should simply kill the BA Codex for you?

Well then your just gonna have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.
Becuase BA has two squads per battle company and thats that

Not any more, they don't.

Bla_Ze wrote:Well then your just gonna have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.
Becuase BA has two squads per battle company and thats that

Never seen a BA Company Organisation Chart. Seen the Smurfs one plently of times, but there is no reason that the BA would follow it and in fact every reason (the Red Thirst, Death Company) that they wouldn't.

Bla_Ze wrote:Well then your just gonna have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.
Becuase BA has two squads per battle company and thats that

RULE #1 ALERT.

Seriously, follow it.

Flashman wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:Well then your just gonna have to bend over and take it up the tail pipe.
Becuase BA has two squads per battle company and thats that

Never seen a BA Company Organisation Chart. Seen the Smurfs one plently of times, but there is no reason that the BA would follow it and in fact every reason (the Red Thirst, Death Company) that they wouldn't.

EXACTLY.

Not that im trying to be rude. But why post if you have no idea? Anyway there is one, and i have it.

And the only major differance with a pure codex chapter is the addition of a 11th company.
(Death company)

Edit: My bad, the DC company is not a formal company but a ad-hoc formation. so calling it 11th company is incorrect.

Bla_Ze wrote:Not that im trying to be rude. But why post if you have no idea? Anyway there is one, and i have it.

And the only major differance with a pure codex chapter is the addition of a 11th company.
(Death company)

Happy to stand corrected. Was it in the 3rd Edition Codex? Because I didn't get that one.

It was in the 2ed "Angels of Death" book. (my Favorite by the way) Not sure if there was anything in the 3ed one.

Ah 2nd Edition... happy days

Getting back on topic...

BA and DA complement each other quite well and we all hate the 4th Ed Dark Angels Codex, so why not have another stab at Angels of Death?

If they wanted a "For Profit" reason, it would give the Dark Angel Vets kit another boost.

Blood Angels have a very unique chapter and are as unique as Space Wolves. I like the current PDF codex. Here are all the unique units only available to Blood Angels:

++HQ++
Dante
Corbulo
Lemartes
Honorguard

++Elites++
Furisio dreadnaught, Death Company & Venerable upgrades
Death Company
Veteran Assault Squad

++Heavy Support++
Baal predator

Rhinos and the Baal predator come with overcharged engines built in.

To say this army is under the category of astartes is just plain wrong.

Blood Angels is a unique flavor indeed (some pun intended)
Thats why i fell in love with the army, and i still am.

Now it seems alot of you are mostly intrested in the gameplay aspect. I could care less, for me its all about the fluff.

No doubt about it, BA is indeed a codex chapter.
And i think it would be sad to break away from that.

Great, go play your boring blue marines painted red, and leave us guys with lots of JP infantry alone.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Great, go play your boring blue marines painted red, and leave us guys with lots of JP infantry alone.

Why are you so insistent that they arnt and astartes army, He is right they are organised like everyone almost everyone else. In both codexes that have been sold they've shown the break down like the normal space marine chapter one. They make take assault marine choices as troops to show how BA are more likely to make them part of standard mission deployment. If you happen to field more then two, just paint up the others as reserve company markings. Any of the Vets are from the 1st company, and so if you actually field a 9 squad force thats actually still within astartes force line ups. You could be Tycho's third fielding your two squads a loaned squad from say the 2nd company, Dante has issued you three vetran squads from the first and 3 more from the reserve 8th throw in a basic jump comander with honour guard and a chaplain and Death company all with the jump packs and your fully mobile.
But if you wanted to field 4 tact and two assault guess what you still have three slots open for fast attack speeders or bikes. I love playing with lots of infantry and his choice to like the similar set up as a strict astartes if ligit thats why they give you the options. I until the scouts got nutered used to field 30 of them as troops and then tool up my Amarines this actually was very effective because alot of effort then is put into killing 2 Vet ass squad and a ten man honour guard. That let the scouts cause alot of damage. Sadly that codex was turned into this new one and while I understand the downsizing of the honourguards abilities and trying again to get DC working better, the scouts thing is just dumb. In the end I look at it like each company captain has his own tastes to the way he fields his troops and plans for a mission. Thats the point of having your own army, its yours do as you will. If you really need to make your own reasoning to why your force is the way it is, good on you. If you want to do the blandest army of tactical bolters and devistators you can. Dont argue composition choices thats idividual preference.

Oh and I this is the original layout in armies of death


I dont have a digital copy of the next version but I think it had even more detail. Ive seen it more then once, I think even the CODEX ASTARTES issues had one printed up, and I cant remember if the armageddon codex ever had a force statement of the BA but you get the picture.

I have Angels of Death, along with C: BA so I'm aware of their old history.

However, making BA into red blue marines with only a Fluff difference is pointless. OTOH, if blue Marines had a Trait that allowed for JP Troops, then I'd be glad to play as red blue marines and not bother with BA at all.

In that case, BA can be Squatted, removing an unnecessary MEQ Codex, and unnecessary SM Codex and allowing for something truly flavorful like LatD or AdMech.

If that happens, that'll make BA my 4th dead army, starting with DE, then DoW, then Kroot, and next BA.

Go me!

BA = KEWL!!!

In thier dex (I think) it actually says thier thirst for combat is so great they have a lot more assualt marinz squads than usual, and that they super-charge thier vehichles to get into close combat/front lines quicker.

Bla_Ze wrote:And the only major differance with a pure codex chapter is the addition of a 11th company.
(Death company)

There is no 11th company.

DC are not a permanent unit, assembled like any other. The amount of BA that fall to the Black Rage is an unknown amount, thus a temporary squad is assembled shortly before battle when the signs of the BR appear. Those that are unfortunate enough to survive the battle are locked up in, "The tower of the Lost", their fate unknown.

There is absolutely NO reason why BA should not have an altered force organization, since they do not follow the treaties of Roboute Guilliman. Might as well yell at the White Scars for taking too many bikes if you follow that logic. You can point to old organization charts all you want, but realize that all the units had Furious Charge. FC is now, suddenly, gone so BA are being reconcepted on how they are specializing in assault (something they've always been).

So, trade furious charge for assault squad as troops. Whether that stays or goes is unknown. I'd like to know where the Sanguinary High Priests went off to- they all magically disappeared.

Hopes:

Assaults stay troop.
Scouts become troop. (why the feth elites?)
the death comp. dread option stays.
fix the points on everything, most things if not all are more expensive
make DC a solid elite and remove the single unit limit
give DC back a power fist or some decent options (rending is nice though)


havent heard any news atall, which is a shame since they are the only marine army i like (other than legion of the damned)

JD21290 wrote:Hopes:

Scouts become troop. (why the feth elites?)
the death comp. dread option stays.
fix the points on everything, most things if not all are more expensive

I agree, there is no reason that raw recruits should be placed in "elites". "Hi! I'm a Terminator! And I'm a scout..." Huh. Yea... The only elite scouts are part of the Space Wolves, and those are full fledged marines.

And agreed again on the pricing. Many options are WAY too expensive to be worth it. 15pts a plasma pistol? HA HA!

In DA and BA, Scouts aren't recruits. They're full Marines.

Check their stats, if you don't believe me.

In UM, Scouts have lower stats, because they're less-experienced.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In DA and BA, Scouts aren't recruits. They're full Marines.

Check their stats, if you don't believe me.

In UM, Scouts have lower stats, because they're less-experienced.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's that simple.

DA/BA were holdouts of the older marine codex where ALL scouts had the higher stat line. UM changed/reconcepted many things about marines such as getting free ML/flamers for 10 man squads, weaker scouts, etc. It will be very interesting to see what they do with the other chapters now that weaker scouts exist in the 40k. I foresee the other chapters getting weaker scouts (those that are NOT full marines) being moved to troops, while full marines that take on an infiltrating roll will be elites. However, there should be a clear distinction between the two.

Moopy wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:And the only major differance with a pure codex chapter is the addition of a 11th company.
(Death company)
Edit: My bad, the DC company is not a formal company but a ad-hoc formation. so calling it 11th company is incorrect.

There is no 11th company.

DC are not a permanent unit, assembled like any other. The amount of BA that fall to the Black Rage is an unknown amount, thus a temporary squad is assembled shortly before battle when the signs of the BR appear. Those that are unfortunate enough to survive the battle are locked up in, "The tower of the Lost", their fate unknown.

There is absolutely NO reason why BA should not have an altered force organization, since they do not follow the treaties of Roboute Guilliman. Might as well yell at the White Scars for taking too many bikes if you follow that logic. You can point to old organization charts all you want, but realize that all the units had Furious Charge. FC is now, suddenly, gone so BA are being reconcepted on how they are specializing in assault (something they've always been).

So, trade furious charge for assault squad as troops. Whether that stays or goes is unknown. I'd like to know where the Sanguinary High Priests went off to- they all magically disappeared.

If you are gonna right me, please read MY post and not a quote so you actually see what it says.
And im sorry Proud astartes would NEVER change their ancient chapter traditions just like that. So how about NO?

I was talking to a black shirt last weekend and he told me that the next few codexes are going to be marine updates. BA being one of them.

Bla_Ze wrote:

If you are gonna right me, please read MY post and not a quote so you actually see what it says.

Considering I quoted you, yes, I did read it. Then again people who are wrong footed retort dismissively with, "You didn't read my post!"

Unless you go back and change the original post, then I'm not responsible for revisionist history.

Considering i edited my post 2009/07/31 20:33:46
and you "quoted" it 2009/08/01 23:33:09.
You should have had enough time seeing the edit.

But to claim i backtracked after being righted by you?
What a joke.

Riiiiiiggghhtt... of course it must be like that. OF COURSE IT MUST!

You posted
I responded
You changed

That's the end of it.

Warseer is that way. =====>

Bye.

I see you didin't actually read both out posts. Since they both say when posted and edited. Its proof enough.
Hence your first mistake.

My First post 2009/07/31 20:15:42
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/31 20:33:46

Your First post: 2009/08/01 23:33:09

Since this is what 27 hours later if im not mistaken, how could i have changed my post?

Edit: Sorry guys for hogging the thread

Yes.. you are mistaken, and your Appeal to Pity (Fallacy) is pretty transparent. Obviously our stamps are not set the same. When I read your post it was before you edited it. Do I go about changing peoples posts to misquote them? Take look in my past post history. Find none? Oh... my my my.

Why you can't accept that is beyond me. : /

Anyways this has gotten to the point of retardation. If someone posts something about BA I'd like to talk about then I'll pick it up there.

never mind.