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I don't get why they can't just be more like the SM codex, where by picking vertain HQ choices it changes you armies Chapter Tactics, meaning they act like a different chapter . . . but it would have to be more extreme than what they are atm. So basically having 1 codex that includes all the chapters/legions . . . no idea whether this would work though.

And I'm looking forward to Chaos Dwarfs, if FW do it they will be even more awesome models, but expensive and the rules won't be as good . . . but if GW do it the models will only be good . . . the rules will be well written, and everything will be cheaper . . . Oh yeah and if GW do it they will sell more as they will actually be available in stores . . .

brassangel wrote:This would be the single dumbest idea they've ever had.

Been around much?

Chaos Dwarves? Yawn.
I thought we'd be getting something new and exciting, not the recycling of a minis line that we haven't seen in 10 years.

Daggermaw wrote:Chaos Dwarves? Yawn.
I thought we'd be getting something new and exciting, not the recycling of a minis line that we haven't seen in 10 years.

given the attention span of the young folk that gw likes to target, 10 years is practically forever

it's forever for me . . . . And I'm not 10

Meh. If they do chaos dwarves I might play Fantasy again. Probably not, though.

fellblade wrote:The owner of my FLGS told me a rumor: 8th edition Fantasy is closer than we think, and every army book will be released simultaneously, Ravening-Hordes style (rather like what they did in WotR)- and it will include Chaos Dwarfs. Future releases of the army books will not have any new or extra rules, just added artwork & background.

I take this rumor with a grain of salt, but I cannot help but think that maybe, just maybe, this would be a way to deal with the power-creep inherent in the current system.

So, IOW, WFB is taking a page from WotR, with all armies and rules in the main book? It's a good idea for army balance and tournament play, but then WFB is going to need an Armies book update to release every year to constantly tweak and patch things...

But instantly invalidating all Army Books, and pretty much consigning future Army Books to Black Library puff pieces with pretty pictures? I can't really see that, as I don't think those books sell so well. I don't think that Fluff and painting guides encourage minis sales like Army Books.

OTOH, this would be consistent with sidelining WFB in favor of WotR (and especially 40k), so hmm...

Great. Just great. Now we have a game with two kinds of Dorf and a game with no Dorfs at all. Wonderful.

...Plastic valhallans sound like the bomb-diggity though.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:No I see his point. The whole of human history offers such rich grounds for exploration that GW is foolish to focus on varients of their fantasy armies.

Oh give me a fething break.

When GW does more Imperial armies in 40K people bitch. When GW does too few human armies in Fantasy people bitch.

Actually, as of late, if GW does anythin, people bitch.. Hell GW should do nothing, at least then, they could say they earned the bitch out they got.. lol

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if CD's went to forgeworld..

You say if GW did nothing people people wouldn't bitch . . . but they would, they would bitch about things not being updated. You can't please everyone.

Do we really need a whole new redone chaos dwarf army? can't they just make it a white dwarf army list and tell people to put spikes and skulls on regular dwarves?

I think having new models and list would bring more interest to the army, whereas with it being a WD army it wouldn't get the same support (look at Blood Angels for example) without a big release you don't get the word out to everyone about the new army, and not everyone has the chance to get the rules.

There wasn't any need for Ogre Kingdoms, but they still released then as an army. I fully expect them to release another army every edition.

I collect Ogres . . . my first and currently only WFB army . . . and no there wasn't any need, other than to add another dimension to the game. They are the minimalist army, small amount of expensive troops. They are like no other army.

Chaos Dwarfs also add another dimension, we get to see more of the fact that not all Dwarfs are nice little miners, some are evil twisted individuals who relish in causing pain to others =]

I was just being silly. I'm sure it'll be a great army. if the models are good enough, i may be tempted to convert some into squats!

Great now if and when I start playing fantasy its gonna be between Dark Elves, Tomb Kings, and Chaos Dwarves.

I don't like this idea at all. I accept that there are evil or corrupted dwarfs out there, but adding this army would add almost nothing to the "dimensionality" of the original Warhammer universe. Dwarfs are dwarfs. The models are there, and you can do what you want to them to make whatever "breed" of dwarf throng you want through army structure and color scheme. Same goes for whatever sort of dwarf you can come up with, including (and not limited to) mountain dwarfs, piedmont dwarfs, agricultural dwarfs, aquatic dwarfs, and yes, chaos dwarfs.

In short, if you're that desperate for a chaos dwarf army, just paint your dwarfs to look chaotic, make whatever minor conversions you see fit, and make a few fluffy house rules for the army. There's no need for a new model line or rulebook.

If it's new "Middle Eastern dimensionality" you're looking for, models from Araby would cover any number of themes from the Middle East that one can conceive, including Sumeria, Babylon, Assyria, Anatolia, Carthage, and the Hellenistic Era.

I like the Messopotamian feel that the old chaos dwarves had. There's got to be a way to incorporate that into the current grimdark of WHFB.

Tk421 wrote:If it's new "Middle Eastern dimensionality" ... Hellenistic Era...

Ok, Dwarven Hoplites might be *just* what the doctor ordered.

I think the ancient Babylonian influence is one that they would definitely profit from exploring.

@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I, for one, will welcome our new (old?) big hatted masters...

And that crazy big red bull too

Oshova wrote:You say if GW did nothing people people wouldn't bitch . . . but they would, they would bitch about things not being updated. You can't please everyone.

If you are replying to me, please reread what I wrote. I didn't say people wouldn't bitch, I said that GW could actually say they earned the bitch session..

What makes Chaos Dwarfs so different from the Dwarfs is why they should be made as an army. They would have to be careful to make them have a range of playing styles that are not entirely the same as an existing army.

The biggest unique factor will be their evil/daemonic industry theme, which sets them apart from all other warhammer armies and adds another facet to the background as a whole.

Oshova wrote:@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I'm saying that it could be done (and I'm certain that it was done by some before those lines came out). I'm also saying that if you want CD's that badly, make your own from the existing dwarf model line instead of whining about GW.

As for the argument concerning Elven and Eldar factions, the lines between those three main types of elf had already been established in other mythos as being in the norm, each with very distinct differences:

High-elfs are often associated with Tolkien's Middle Earth.
Wood-elfs embrace the traditional fantasy concept of the "elven ranger".
Dark-elfs are derived from Scandinavian, Eddic, and Germanic mythologies, where they are known as Svartálfar (literally Norse for "black elf").

This opened up the games to all fans of elfs and not just one exclusively. By including the three common variants of the elves, everyone can collect the elf race that is most appealing.

That is not the same as introducing chaos dwarfs.

Except, Chaos Dwarves go back a long time, to early WFB.

This isn't GW pulling something brand new out of some random orifice.

I guess the point I want to make is that they should come out with CDs wit another race simultaneously, both drawing from Middle Eastern cultures. If they did CDs in conjunction with, say, nomads of Araby, I think they'd find a more stable market.

Still not thrilled with the CD idea, but to each his/her own.

Tk421 wrote:

Oshova wrote:@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I'm saying that it could be done (and I'm certain that it was done by some before those lines came out). I'm also saying that if you want CD's that badly, make your own from the existing dwarf model line instead of whining about GW.

That is not the same as introducing chaos dwarfs.

But CD are not just Dwarves with pointy hats.
They had a lot of cheap hobgobs, options for Black Orcs, Lammasu and Bull Centaurs. And an interesting magic lore.
You cannot make the classic Chaos Dwarf army with the Dwarf army boook.
Tho the Ravening Hordes (6ed?) list is still usable.
On Podhammer, they mentioned one of the top guys in Aus was running them a few months back.

Grimstonefire wrote:
The biggest unique factor will be their evil/daemonic industry theme, which sets them apart from all other warhammer armies and adds another facet to the background as a whole.

x2. I want to see Chaos Dwarfs done largely because I'm curious where GW is going to take this particular angle. We've seen what they've done combining chaos with technology in 40k (Obliterators, Defiler, that other thing with the torso). Evil Mesopotamians with hobgoblin slaves and daemonic war machines is far more interesting and relevant (to the "main" Warhammer world) than Araby is likely to be. The fact that they are short in stature and Movement 3 is more of an afterthought.