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Considering that Warwick's signature is no doubt copy-pasted rather than actually being signed, I'd say the sleeve is the better deal.

Kanluwen wrote:

It's nowhere near that price point.

It's two and 1/5ths Basilisks for the Minotaur, alongside of the Earthshakers being twin-linked, and having two structure points rather than just the standardized vehicle.

Ah, well my memory sucks, but I knew it was more than 2 Basilisks.

Still stupidly overcosted, especially since you only have to take out a single gun, instead of two, to disable it.

All the Malcador and Macharius variants are stupidly overpriced, though, so it's not a shocker.

I'm pretty sure the ForgeWorld team has no idea how the game works on a competitive level, and are afraid of making overpowered monsters, so they just jack up the points costs on everything to an arbitrary level so they don't have to worry about balance issues. The old Hydra was a good example of this. But then you get something that slips through the cracks and is just awesome, like the Salamander Command vehicle (and from the sound of it, Hector Rex).

H.B.M.C. wrote:Considering that Warwick's signature is no doubt copy-pasted rather than actually being signed, I'd say the sleeve is the better deal.

It is a real sig in what looks like ball point pen ink. You can feel an indention into the paper on it. It is very illegible though, and as my girlfriend,who used to go signature hunting put it, very forge-able.

40kenthusiast wrote:
An'grath and Big Green are unchanged.
Blight Drones are great, I'd play them in a Chaos Daemon army without hesitation. A fast skimmer that has good long range options is just what the doctor ordered.
Blood Slaughterers are...interesting. I can see potential, but I think I'd ultimately break down on the side of the grinder. Rage is just so crippling. Maybe test out a list with a squadron of them just to see what they can do.
Khornate Prince (executioner) is wretched, but his fluff is awesome.
Mammon is amazing, auto-include in my Daemon army. t7, 5 wounds? Rawk!
Nurgle Sorcerer guy is good value for points if you are going all Nurgle, he beats basic Nurgle warptime sorcerer due to having FNP. Good to go next to Typhon for the all FNP army. That said, he pales next to Lash Sorcerer.
Nurgle Guard army is similar to Khorne guard army. I think Khorne guard does better (Zerks better able to make use of dreadclaws), but no flies on Nurguard. Both lists need to be updated to be 5th edition Guard style.

Agreed on most points, although the slaughters do have the potential to have more armour on the table than soul grinders. The ranged attack option is probably crap though, as BS1 means that they're hitting so infrequently, you have to wonder why you're not fleeting.

Blight Drones do rock. A large blast on a fast platform should be able to get good shots off. Mammon also has a serious template attack. Wounding on 2s and AP3 means he could rack up the tally in a hurry.

TobyDog wrote:
Story wise I don't think many want spoilers...
LMK if you do, I finished it last weekend.

I'd like to get the story spoilers, I'm not planning on purchasing this book but I do have Vraks Part 1 and would be interested to see how the story ended.

Where do the daemon engines reside in lists (CSM or CD)?

Agamemnon2 wrote:FW is starting to give C.S. Goto a run for his money in the writing-by-idiots competition

Ben Counter and his box of crayons thinks this is funny.

Agamemnon2 wrote:FW is starting to give C.S. Goto a run for his money in the writing-by-idiots competition

God I hope you're kidding...

If he's not, then he has terrible reading comprehension.

Well, the thing about this stuff is that it's really only used in close knit casual play groups. Simply change costs, or more like, adjust some abilities. Would the manticore be better at two shots, twin linked, primary weapon at the same cost?

Minotaur, Pol. There's nothing wrong with the Manticore.

It would be better as two shots, Twin-Linked. Or, if it acted like a battery in Apoc, where you fired the first shot, and then the second shot could automatically hit where the first shot landed without rolling scatter.

And you make it around 230-250 points.

Oops, my bad.

My point is, You could halve the things cost and it would still only be a little better than a basilisk (which isn't exactly the best pound for pound unit in the game, although much better in Apoc)

This is true of all of FW's 2 structure point Super-Heavies.

The basic Machairus is horrible. 335 points w/sponson HBs. A single Battlecannon with a 7" blast, a TL-Heavy Stubber and 2 HBs. For 340 points you can get two Leman Russes - that's 2 Battlecannons with 5" blasts and 6 Heavy Bolters. So 5 points more, for over double the firepower, and they're two separate targets.

In a one-on-one fight, the 250 point Landraider will beat the Macharius. And the Macharius is slower, its armour is worse, it cannot tranpsort models, its weapons have terrible arcs of fire. The basic Macharius is worth 250 at most. Probably less as it is less than 1.5 Russes in power.

The Vanquisher Macharius is 375 (385 w/HB Sponsons) is slightly better as it can fire both regular Battlecanon rounds and AT-rounds (Twin-Linked!), but, again, it's worth 100 points more than it should be.

And then the Vulcan Macharius? Oh god... 405 points!!! The Baneblade is only 95 more points FFS, and is infinitely better armed, better protected and more generally useful.

It only gets worse with the Malcadors where the basic Malcador has fewer guns than a Russ yet costs 25 points more than a Land Raider. And it has worse armour, is slower than just about every tank bar the Monolith, suffers more damage to its rear and cannot transport troops.

These super-heavies are not good tanks and are worth in the mid-200's at absolute most.

H.B.M.C. wrote:These super-heavies are not good tanks and are worth in the mid-200's at absolute most.

Precisely, and the fact that FW either doesn't understand this, or doesn't care, is what makes them a bunch of spineless cretins. They clearly treat rules-writing as a necessary evil just so more people will buy their glossy fluff books. They're the opposite end of the spectrum from the obnoxious list-optimizing, rules-lawyering twits everyone hates playing against.

Well that's one way of putting it. Spinelessness would imply some level of knoweldge that they're doing wrong however, and I don't think they do know what they're doing wrong. I think Warwick et al. are just clueless.

Remember Aggy - never attribute to malice (or in this case, spinelessness) what you can attribute to being a complete dumbfeth.

I'd like to believe it's neither stupidity or malice, and just trying to make it so that it isn't appealing to anything outside of scenario play.

But then, you have to wonder WTF they're thinking.

Hmm, having read the background I find it well, not bad or horrible, but rather meh I guess.

... just trying to make it so that it isn't appealing to anything outside of scenario play.

How does that make any sense? Why would you want your products to be less appealing to everyone?

It's also hilarious since so many of FW's published Vraks scenarios can't be played as-is without investing thousands of pounds into their models.... oh wait.

Makes perfect sense after all.