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Broken Loose wrote:
Last time I used a Broodlord, I was fighting Necrons.

Remember that "you must attempt to get into base contact" rule?

So I assaulted 20 warriors and a Res Orb lord with a full BL + 11 Stealers. Tendrils on the BL, Acid Maw on the stealers, carapace and toxin sacs for everybody.

Well, he placed his units in such a way that 1 or 2 of my stealers had to enter difficult terrain. I made the roll, but hello Initiative 1.

Independent Character to closest model: Broodlord ends up face to face with the Lord.

I'm curious about this, a little more clarification please? Maybe I'll make a new thread. Are you saying that your opponent required you to enter difficult terrain while assaulting him because he had 1 model in difficult terrain on the edge of the fight?

EDIT:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/254820.page

New thread!

HurricaneGirl wrote:My Broodlord doesn't have as much trouble because I don't put him out front. I usually have him Outflank and my opponent is trying to deal with the other 48 stealers on the board to worry about him.

It's rather safe to say that if your opponent can avoid 48 genestealers, he can avoid 10 more genestealers moving at 2/3rds the speed. Especially since you have to announce outflankers at the beginning of the game and any player worth his salt knows how to stay 19 inches from the edges (or block the edges with vehicles) while fighting stealer shock.

JD21290 wrote:Just a thought here, but why does everyone keep saying to use dreads? due to having amazing initiative stealers + lord will allways hit a dread 1st.

Because we're competent at math and actually familiar with the rules of the units being discussed?

Dreadnoughts are excellent flank security versus geanstealer assaults, particularly Ironclads who're even more unlikely to be hurt by them (and can carry dual heavy flamers for inflicting massive casualties on them).

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:Because we're competent at math and actually familiar with the rules of the units being discussed?

Dreadnoughts are excellent flank security versus geanstealer assaults, particularly Ironclads who're even more unlikely to be hurt by them (and can carry dual heavy flamers for inflicting massive casualties on them).

The Heavy Flamer is pretty important here. It is, in my opinion, the most underrated weapon in 40k. The problem with the Broodlord is since he's 6"/6" without Fleet, his only way to force assault without getting shot first is by having another unit tying up the target. Otherwise, he has to deal with at least one round of shooting. And a Heavy Flamer vs. 'stealers turns it into a barbecue pretty efficiently.

60 attacks from Genestealers against Ironclad.
First 40 hit, then another 13 due to re-roll.
Of 53, about 9 roll 6 on armour penetration.
Then 3 roll 5 or 6 on D3 to do Glancing hit.
That's on average 2 stunned and 1 shaken.
Broodlord can't do anything if he doesn't have rending claws (can't have or too stupid to have)
So yep. Ironclad Dreadnought is pretty much the best thing you can do to wall those Genestealers. Not to mention the fact that Ironclad Dreadnought can fire two heavy flamers and then charge in which case they will have even less with to hit.

I thought the Broodlord came with rending claws automatically?

Hello, Leman Russ.

BOOM.

Asking what can beat genestealers in CC is like asking what do you need to make ice beat fire...

Genestealers are CC monsters, in all respects. They attack first most times, get a buttload of attacks, and they rend! The only times I've seen a retinue of GS's get taken down with ease was by Abaddon (who killed the entire squad in one combat with his termi retinue). Tack in a broodlord and even abaddon would be hard pressed to win, especially if they make the lord initiative 7!

Genestealers are so good in CC because the suffer from an accute case of "genestealer syndrome" meaning that the are amazing in cc, point for point one of the best (so are banshees, but they have genesteler syndome too.) and the die like flies to any type of shooting imaginable. Go ahead, let them om-nom that guardsman squad. the rest of 'em will be double tapped to high hell. 5th was a double edged sword, it gave them a cover save all the time, (if you are smart enough) and gave them outflank (I think) but they can no longer tear through an entire army (in one turn. )

One heavy flamer will entirely ruin a Genestealer squad, upgraded or not. Thats what everyone takes on their chimeras these days, so I hear.

Zid wrote:Asking what can beat genestealers in CC is like asking what do you need to make ice beat fire...

Genestealers are CC monsters, in all respects. They attack first most times, get a buttload of attacks, and they rend! The only times I've seen a retinue of GS's get taken down with ease was by Abaddon (who killed the entire squad in one combat with his termi retinue). Tack in a broodlord and even abaddon would be hard pressed to win, especially if they make the lord initiative 7!

Maybe if you're playing 4th edition.

God, you sound like a White Dwarf article describing genestealers. "They have 2 attacks, which is twice as many as the Space Marine (click here to check out our beautiful Space Marine model line)! At 16 points a piece, that's amazing! What's more, their close combat attacks rend, which makes them capable of taking down any opponent no matter the situation! And you get 8 of them for $34.99! How can you go wrong? Order today!"

Initiative 6 doesn't matter if your best wargear denies your ability to take grenades. Rending doesn't matter when you have only 2 attacks for a minimum of 16 points, especially now that rending is roughly half as effective as it was before. I'm not saying rending and I6 are a waste, but genestealers have crap armor, a severe lack of attacks, and a huge overcosting problem. The only reason why they're so successful is because they're better than the rest of the crap in the Tyranid codex (especially given that they're the only self-scoring units in the ENTIRE ARMY).

Try Bassies. Two for a lower point cost. One takes out half the retinue and the other smashes in the bl face. two turns and assuming the shots don't land in mississippi most of the retinue is dead, the bl is hurting badly, and there is still space between you and your now bloodied and tenderized tyranid.

nyyman wrote:60 attacks from Genestealers against Ironclad.
First 40 hit, then another 13 due to re-roll.
Of 53, about 9 roll 6 on armour penetration.
Then 3 roll 5 or 6 on D3 to do Glancing hit.
That's on average 2 stunned and 1 shaken.
Broodlord can't do anything if he doesn't have rending claws (can't have or too stupid to have)
So yep. Ironclad Dreadnought is pretty much the best thing you can do to wall those Genestealers. Not to mention the fact that Ironclad Dreadnought can fire two heavy flamers and then charge in which case they will have even less with to hit.

Yep, although you forgot to make them cry by taking frag assault launchers and costing them the charge attack...additionally for the cost of that many stealers + broodlord, you can eek out two ironclads...

Jack