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This is slightly OT but since the stealers are his reuitine can you allocate attacks to the broodlord? Wouldn't they be distributed like normal?

tiekwando wrote:This is slightly OT but since the stealers are his reuitine can you allocate attacks to the broodlord? Wouldn't they be distributed like normal?

If it is truly a retinue in its old meaning the broodlord counts as an upgrade character. This means you can allocate attacks in close combat against him (just like any sergeant or exarch etc.)

Wyche Dracite with agonizer leading a unit of wyches with succubus + agonizer and goblet of spite pwns Broodlord + stealers. I have done it on a number of occasions.

I've only played against a brood lord once in a big game at a GW store. Everyone could pick one unit to infiltrate, it could be anything. So one minute I'm minding my own business next thing I know a brood and his stealers are on top of my SM Command Squad (I hadn't finished building my Rhinos yet) and in CC. Not fun. It took out the Command Squad and all but one of an assault squad before taking the thing down.

The BL cannot be targeted seperately, as the BL is an upgrade character since it has a retinue. But neither are the GS scoring (and for the same reason), as was suggested - they are an HQ retinue.

One of the funniest things I have done with one recently was to infiltrate them into a bunker on my opponents side.

ok that was what i thought.
Necron Destroyers= anti broodlord
ok so its about assault, well nothing in necrons can win so i just either try to kill it before it gets to me or i let it sweep a squad and then kill if after, both ways work pretty well though.

SeerCouncil
Fortuned Avatar
Banshees + Doom
Yriel bomb...preferably Fortuned

Eldar have 4 great answers to the Broodlord + retinue....not counting all their shooting

DE Witches with Syberite and combat drugs for striking first will also own the Broodlord.

It seems like the space Elves are best against him.

I don't have the codex to recall all the stats, but how do you think an Avatar of Khaine would do?

Cheese Elemental wrote:Honestly, it's far easier to get a Dakka Predator and shoot them. They only have a 4+ save!

QFT

gardeth wrote:Wyche Dracite with agonizer leading a unit of wyches with succubus + agonizer and goblet of spite pwns Broodlord + stealers. I have done it on a number of occasions.

QFT this is probably the best way to take down Genestealers w/Broodlord or without in CC out of all the options; maybe doomed genestealers with fortuned banshees/seer councils.

9 Banshees w/ exarch + executioner
doom

they should get charge (have fleet)

banshees kill 7.5 exarch kills 1.3 so 9

2 GS + BL kill 5. loose by 4, both GS die.

BL kills 3, Banshees 1 wound, maybe run otherwise...

BL kills the rest, has 2 wounds left and its tyranids turn so he can kill a few more off another squad, fortune doesnt do much, it may save one banshee in the first round, which could mean another wound on the BL, but you have to be lucky.

So banshees do a good job of killing the reutine but cannot finish the job, they are also over a hundred points less. Also if they can shoot before charging they kill 2 or 4 depending on extended carapace or not and then they will win

Just a thought here, but why does everyone keep saying to use dreads? due to having amazing initiative stealers + lord will allways hit a dread 1st.

stealers get rending to help kill dreads, broodlords get a nice strength and act as MC's when attacking vehicles.

throwing a dread at them means losing a dread in a single turn and not even slowing them down.


Either shoot them to pieces quickly, or assault them with a high initiative unit.

If shooting then any rapid fire small arms, blast or template weapons will do the job fine.

Demon version of whip then breath of chaos via 3 flamers?

tiekwando wrote:9 Banshees w/ exarch + executioner
doom

they should get charge (have fleet)

banshees kill 7.5 exarch kills 1.3 so 9

2 GS + BL kill 5. loose by 4, both GS die.

BL kills 3, Banshees 1 wound, maybe run otherwise...

BL kills the rest, has 2 wounds left and its tyranids turn so he can kill a few more off another squad, fortune doesnt do much, it may save one banshee in the first round, which could mean another wound on the BL, but you have to be lucky.

So banshees do a good job of killing the reutine but cannot finish the job, they are also over a hundred points less. Also if they can shoot before charging they kill 2 or 4 depending on extended carapace or not and then they will win

Toss in Jain-Zar just for fun?

Demon version of whip then breath of chaos via 3 flamers?

You mean pavane mate?
its somewhat short ranged and requires a herald aswell.
Also, flamers are pretty fragile and points heavy

for a cheaper way even a unit of horrors could do the job, all it needs is massed small arms fire, even flashlights would do it

JD21290 wrote:Just a thought here, but why does everyone keep saying to use dreads? due to having amazing initiative stealers + lord will allways hit a dread 1st.

stealers get rending to help kill dreads, broodlords get a nice strength and act as MC's when attacking vehicles.

Er, where do BLs get count as MC vs. vehicles? Maybe I'm just missing something obvious as I don't think I've ever managed to let a Broodlord actually get to assault with any of my stuff, but I'm not seeing it in the unit entry.

'stealer rending took a huge hit with the 5e Rending nerf; if you had, say, an Ironclad dread in assault with them, they'd need to hit, then roll a 6 for armor pen, then roll a 3 (on a D3) for rending to glance -- 8/9 to hit (assuming hitting on rerollable 3s), 1/6 to rend, 1/3 to glance, 1/3 to actually do something to the dread is an average of 60 attacks to actually hurt it -- which is more than an entire retinue on the charge.

Of course, the problem is the dread doesn't get terribly many attacks to start with, but the really scary part is that since you don't have Fleet, you're just as fast as the dread and have no reliable way to not be vaporized by the (frequently carried) Heavy Flamer before said assault happens.

An Ironclad Dreadnought with two Heavy Flamers in a Drop Pod is 180 points, and against that you're pretty much screwed.

Lowinor: Havent read the nid dex in a while, but im sure that the BL ignores saves and acts as a MC when fighting against AV, ill have to try and dig it out to confirm it.

Stealers may have been nerfed somewhat by the new rending, but 60 attacks to hurt it?
You make that sound allmost impossible.
40 attacks on the charge covers most of that, the dread will harly dent them (3 dead stealers) mean 7 left to attack back, giving 21 attacks in return.

Theres your 60 attacks simply from the stealers, not including what the BL can do aswell.

said ironclad would be dropping into the field, leaving it stood still until it gets a chance to move.
not only would stealers and BL get to assault it, but near by units wouldnt keep away. (lets face it, if you have a fex striding up the field you dont ignore a dread toasting your units)

sniperjolly wrote:
Toss in Jain-Zar just for fun?

I had left her out, but statistically she and a unit of banshees would kill all the stealers in the first round plus the broodlord. It gets even better if they can shoot first. Yirel wouldn't be as good as he goes simultaneously, even though he wounds on 2+ and ignores armor.

The banshee squad, even though it is wiped out in subsequent turns, has a 50/50 chance of killing the whole unit for a lot less then the cost of the nids. If the points were evened out by adding Jain-Zar, or an bike autarch with lance, then the banshees would win with minimal casualties. As all the banshees, Exarch and Jain-Zar are I10, you can choose to resolve the aspect warriors attacks first. This wipes out the genestealers and leaves the broodlord to face the Exarch and Phoenix Lord all on his own.

Of course, if I knew I was facing Nids, I probably wouldn't have banshees or a phoenix lord in my eldar army, but I wouldn't be rushing into hand to hand with the broodlord anyway.

tiekwando wrote:ok that was what i thought.
Necron Destroyers= anti broodlord
ok so its about assault, well nothing in necrons can win so i just either try to kill it before it gets to me or i let it sweep a squad and then kill if after, both ways work pretty well though.

Last time I used a Broodlord, I was fighting Necrons.

Remember that "you must attempt to get into base contact" rule?

So I assaulted 20 warriors and a Res Orb lord with a full BL + 11 Stealers. Tendrils on the BL, Acid Maw on the stealers, carapace and toxin sacs for everybody.

Well, he placed his units in such a way that 1 or 2 of my stealers had to enter difficult terrain. I made the roll, but hello Initiative 1.

Independent Character to closest model: Broodlord ends up face to face with the Lord. Staff of Light takes off a wound and wipes 2 stealers. 20 necron warriors take out 7 genestealers. 2 genestealers kill 2 necrons because 1 rend and 3+ armor save. BL knocks out 3 warriors.

The 2 genestealers and BL take 5 no retreats. 2 on the boss (roll a 2 and a 1), 3 on the schlubs (3, 3, 6).

Then 4 of those 5 warriors got back up the next turn.

I haven't used a Broodlord since.

JD21290 wrote:Lowinor: Havent read the nid dex in a while, but im sure that the BL ignores saves and acts as a MC when fighting against AV, ill have to try and dig it out to confirm it.

Stealers may have been nerfed somewhat by the new rending, but 60 attacks to hurt it?
You make that sound allmost impossible.
40 attacks on the charge covers most of that, the dread will harly dent them (3 dead stealers) mean 7 left to attack back, giving 21 attacks in return.

Theres your 60 attacks simply from the stealers, not including what the BL can do aswell.

said ironclad would be dropping into the field, leaving it stood still until it gets a chance to move.
not only would stealers and BL get to assault it, but near by units wouldnt keep away. (lets face it, if you have a fex striding up the field you dont ignore a dread toasting your units)

"Inhuman Strength. So powerful is the Broodlord that all wounds caused by it ignore armor saves in the same manner as power weapons." Page 36. Nothing about 2D6 armor penetration.

60 attacks to hurt the dread sounds about right.

You need to hit the dread.
You need to rend.
You need the rend roll to be high enough to not be wasted.
And technically, you need to destroy weapon twice plus immobilize it PLUS destroy weapon/immobilize it AGAIN because dreads can't "lose" combat in the case that you glance it. If you penetrate it (not possible on AV13) then you have a 1 in 3 chance of killing it. 3*3*6/8*9 = 60.75 attacks to kill an AV12 dreadnought.

Just backing up statements made about Wyches.
On a purely unit to unit compareson in combat you could get
a Drachite with agoniser and a 9 man wych squad with a succubus with agoniser. Wych while expensive comes out at about two thirds as much as the BL squad already posted.
Thats a squad that hits at the same Initiative as the genies (and has a 1/6 chance of striking first), a 4+ invunerable save and halfs the oponents WS when striking at them. Oh and stops scything talons from working. Woo I've just neutered your genies.

I charged genies + a carnifex with just 6 wyches + a Heamo in my last game and although they were wiped out they managed to reduce the carni to two wounds making him a perfect target for my roving reaver jetbikes with blasters to one two punch next turn and reduced the genie squad to just a single one all on his lonesome.

Broken Loose wrote: Vitriol, hate, malice, Truth

I like you. You'll do well here.


Personally I just walk away from the stupid thing and then once I'm finished dealing with the enemy army I turn around and gun him down.

Yeah, a single attack from a stealer only has a 3.7% chance to glance a dread and two-thirds of those options don't do deal damage so that's a 1.23% chance per attack to even start dealing damage to it so you need 81 attacks per weapon destroyed or immobilized result and 325 to kill it from stealers alone. The broodlord with his maximum strength of six can't even hurt an Ironclad.

Did you factor in rending?

Just for fun I went against my brother's Broodlord and I could only take one HQ model.

I chose Sammy in speeder from my Dark Angles army.
This was under 4 ed rules and before the DA codex came out too.

My brother "retired" him to the shelf since then.

If a Broodlord took toxin sacs, he would either roll a 6 for his attacks and rend, or do absolutely nothing. He needs to hit and roll 6's on his armor pen to do anything. Granted, if he does rend he's more likely to pen then glance, but he isn't likely to get that rend result anyway. If the normal genestealers take toxin sacs, they would have to hit, rend and then roll either a 5 or 6 to penetrate. But then your genestealers are 19 or 20 (can't remember right this second) points each before extended carapace, talons, tendrils, etc.

I missed rending in the Broodlord, but the fact stands that the Ironclad wouldn't be in dire straits especially if he flamed before moving in.

While the Broodlord isn't the best HQ choice in the game, I still have fun with him. To answer the original post; If you are in close combat with a Broodlord (or any Tyranid really) then you are in the wrong part of town. That's their strength. I will admit that Lysander has given me the most trouble to date.

My Broodlord doesn't have as much trouble because I don't put him out front. I usually have him Outflank and my opponent is trying to deal with the other 48 stealers on the board to worry about him.

I pop em left and right with my TH/SS termies. a 10 man squad of them is about the same points as a BL and 11 fully upgraded stealers.

HurricaneGirl wrote:While the Broodlord isn't the best HQ choice in the game, I still have fun with him. To answer the original post; If you are in close combat with a Broodlord (or any Tyranid really) then you are in the wrong part of town. That's their strength. I will admit that Lysander has given me the most trouble to date.

My Broodlord doesn't have as much trouble because I don't put him out front. I usually have him Outflank and my opponent is trying to deal with the other 48 stealers on the board to worry about him.

Thats not entirely true. Their are plenty of Tyranid units that either have no business in close combat or are easy to ruin there. Any kind of gaunts attacked by any sort of competent assault unit is a disaster for the Tyranids because they will lose the combat, then lose several models as the Hive Mind tells them to die in shame for No Retreat!. Most anything Orky(besides Grots), and many MEQ assault units will easily pull this off.

Warriors are fairly overcosted for what is essentially an expensive Genestealer with an extra wound and lower I and WS in combat if you give it the CC upgrades.

Tyrants and Guard are generally powerful in CC, but they have things they need to be wary of like large squads of ubiquitous Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield assault terminators, large Mobs of Nobz with powerklaws, other Genestealers, etc. Carnifexes usually aren't going to see combat, and if they do it will be with something the enemy has prepared for it, considering that it can't fleet.

The Broodlord can be very nasty, but the point still stands that the far easier and more effective option is simply shooting the stupid thing.

a squad of 10 thunder hammer/storm shield terminators with Lysander will put a definite end to his day trust me, I've done it with only 5 terminators and lysander