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Here is what made White Dwarf a great magazine back in the day:

detailed batreps/
Detailed army lists and exciting battles that were not fabricated. I will always remember the one where it all came down to a grot versus a Space Marine biker and the grot won.

Chapter Approved/
New rules and special units for armies. I understand now that they are fully corporatized they have lost that flexibility BUT Jervis is not filling that gap. You are not going to find rules to play Cypher again anytime soon.

Background/
They used to have exciting articles about various armies' background.

Like people say, it used to be a magazine for the hobbyist but now it is a Rag to sell product. They should just mail out a catalog each month.

G

OT but egads, those old metal and plastic 2nd edition 'nid warriors were crap looking. Best looking minis for 'nids in second were the Hive Tyrant and the Screamer Killers.

And the Lictor was awesome. And the H-Gaunts were cool (even if the models were a BITCH to make stand up).

HI all.
The answer is in the small print...(under the issue number...)

WD used to be ' Games Workshops Monthly Gaming Supplement & Citadel Minatures Cataloge.'

Plenty of room for game devs and enthusiasts to talk about useful hobby related items in interesting articles.(Mike Walkers WH articles were exellent IMO. .)

Then WD became 'Games Workshops Monthly Citadel Minatures Cataloge.'

This limits articles to ' OUR STUFF IS GREAT, BUY OUR STUFF, ESPECIALY THE NEW STUFF!'

My favorite Jervis Ramble was the 'We made some great games so I am going to try to generate some interest in them.But they are now removed from stores and called 'specialist games'.(To stop kiddies buying them ,as they might detract from core game sales) .So I cant say they are better than the core games, ramble.

Why buy WD when you can get lots more softer toilet paper for ther same price?

TTFN
Lanrak.

Ok here we go:

1) Total lack of new background you used to get 3 pages long stories about characters when a new model came out.

2) Relating to the above, lack of text in general, stop filling pages and with pictures and write something!

3) Terrain articles, and I mean proper how to articles not, heres all the cool stuff we made one that their using these days

4) Silly stuff, Catachan Barking Toad anyone?

I think I can see what I'm liking NQ so much these days..

I can't find the first one I'm afraid, but here's the second J-Files from WD 197 (May 1996).

Back when JJ used to like Tournaments...

dannnnnnnnny wrote:I am enjoying the irony in the article being named Standard Bearer yet it seems that if anything the article is decreasing moral in the troops.

The Standard Bearer should increase the moral in the troops.
But the opposite seems to be the case.

JJ does not need to be removed...

They need some balance by having other articles each month on the same or similar topics with dissenting views, so it seems like there is actually some sort of valid thought and debate being given to the hobby.

I think WD is ok, better than it was.....2004-2007

The masterclass painting segments are great and very useful.

The other content is fairly uneven in usefulness or interest on a month by month basis, but its really good when they find some great, converted painted army and throw that in.

Sometimes the issue is worth it, sometimes not.

Battle reports and standard bearer are ok too, on a case by case basis.

When the issue co-incides with big product release it adds to the thrills of retail anticipation....

But the real good thing about WD is that its relatively cheap. So you can go to your local store for a look in and say hi to the crew and buy something and feel like a customer.

To actually put out money on some models is always painful, so the act of buying WD gives a way of participating in retail thrill without wallet pain.

It is pretty cheap just to look at what's new, look at what's happening and check if you can find any reason to be inspired and go paint and convert something. So as a catalyst for creativity its a useful buy.

OTG.

Saying it is "OK", and then looking at the price and buying it, is a special kind of fail.

I regularly buy WD mainly because I want to be kept informed about newer releases and painting stuff.
Not sure if the price is fair.

Aww, i used to love white dwarf, full of modeling tips and background stpries.
Anyone remember the one when a new Tyranid codex was released (i forget the edition) and most of the book was filled with a single story depicting the fall of an imperial world, from genestealer ambushes to the rippers eating everything. I think it ended with a guadsmen hiding in a fox hole and blowing his own brains out.

H.B.M.C. wrote:There we go. Thank you Puma.

Dude, those things were fit only for melting down, casting into bullets, and returning to the designer at as painful a speed as possible. Now someone ding me for internet toughguyhyperbole.

wuestenfux wrote:I regularly buy WD mainly because I want to be kept informed about newer releases and painting stuff.
Not sure if the price is fair.

On this one, seriously not trying to be an ass, but that's like paying to flip to their website. I did it for Dakka, but for GW.com? methinks feth NOT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fifty wrote:JJ does not need to be removed....

You remember how Old Yeller ended? You remember why it ended that way? Chew on that for a bit, see what you come up with. Not that I am advocating a terminal response, but it's a metaphor, alright?

Fifty wrote:They need some balance by having other articles each month on the same or similar topics with dissenting views, so it seems like there is actually some sort of valid thought and debate being given to the hobby.

while there's some good ideas in there, the stopped around your bit on dissenting views and possibly picked up again afterward. Dissenting views, and the reasonings behind the fact that they will never fething be seen in WD, are one of the penultimate reasons as to why sites like dakka are so important. Even other forums and sites that some frown upon and slag off (admittedly some really DO warm up the kiddie pool) are even further yings to the WD WTF.

wuestenfux wrote:I regularly buy WD mainly because I want to be kept informed about newer releases and painting stuff.
Not sure if the price is fair.


On this one, seriously not trying to be an ass, but that's like paying to flip to their website. I did it for Dakka, but for GW.com? methinks feth NOT.

I'll do my best to keep GW alive and kickin'.

Fifty wrote:JJ does not need to be removed....

You remember how Old Yeller ended? You remember why it ended that way? Chew on that for a bit, see what you come up with. Not that I am advocating a terminal response, but it's a metaphor, alright?

Never seen old yeller...

But I agree we'll never see any views other than JJ's. Thing is, if we want a wish list, a valid discussion on the pages of WD is only as impossible as the likelihood of JJ being removed altother. The removal of JJ and the addition of opposing viewpoints are equally unlikely.

Is JJ the chief designer (if there is something like this at GW)?

I doubt we will ever see much in the way of opposing views in the mag at all. It's a GW ad, at the end of the day. The only view it will logical purvey is "Buy more stuff now."

Exactly.

GW's main market and main audience for WD are the junior teen newbies for whom it is all new and exciting.

They don't know or care that much of the material is recycled because they haven't been around long enough to know. Also, their critical faculties are underdeveloped because they are young.

The only reason I buy WD is to see what the studio has done and not do it like them. Also, I read the back of the magazine to see what local tournies are being played since I do not have time to search on the internet for stuff in other states. I have to agree that a majority of the WD articles are just advertising for GW. There was an incident at the 2009 Adepticon awards on the Saturday Evening that sums it up perfectly. 11 PM at night after a full day of gaming which started at 8 AM the stupid GW sale rep droned on for almost 45 mins on the new stuff in the pipe from GW and BL which we all had seen three months earlier on Dakka and other sites. When he turned and said to the crowd, "You all do not seem to interested in this stuff." A lone gamer in the back of the room yelled at him, "WE HAVE THE INTERNET!" The GW sales rep spent a couple more mins and then turned the mic back over to the judges.

I have been buying WD since 1998 when I got back from Korea and enjoyed the articles with fluff and tutorials on the hobby. But when two pages are wasted on FW released which are three to six months old and the same pictures from the web site (which lately they have been posting alot and doing it horribly. Some pictures look like they just blew up thumbnails.) Well, I am done beating a dead horse.

Kilkrazy wrote:Exactly.

GW's main market and main audience for WD are the junior teen newbies for whom it is all new and exciting.

They don't know or care that much of the material is recycled because they haven't been around long enough to know. Also, their critical faculties are underdeveloped because they are young.

A fair point, but why is this the case? Surely a hobby this specialized should try and retain the core support it has created? It's a sad fact that WD has been relegated to a sort of promotional pamphlet; its longevity in peoples eyes is based on their age when they first bought the magazine.

The older players have much more of an income, so WD should cater for this. Instead, it is in a constant, circular flux. The lact of intelligent articles is an insult to those hobbyists who followed the magazine in their youth and this should not be the case.

A wide eyed newcomer to the hobby will find much more wide eyed wonder with an intelligent and original magazine than he will with one filled with pictures and adverts. Has WD never thought of upping its game to (gasp) increase readership through returning veterans?

grizgrin wrote:Dude, those things were fit only for melting down, casting into bullets, and returning to the designer at as painful a speed as possible. Now someone ding me for internet toughguyhyperbole.

Some people like nostalgia. Why else would I keep my Mk.I Land Raider?

God knows it's not because you can't afford the new one. You probably have 6.

The reason you still own a Mk1 LR is because they are not interested in keeping people in the hobby since you are less likely to buy a replacement. A stuck up soccer mom will throw $50 bucks at the FLGS if it means that her demon seed of a child will shut up and let her get drunk and make some bad choices with the UPS guy.

Kids and people starting out in the hobby make up a much larger share of the profit than older gamers with two or three older armies already. When a new toy comes out in your army you will by one or two. If it is just a newer version then most gamers might just pick up the box and then put it down because they can still play the one they have. A new player will buy one or more of everything because they have no clue at what works well or not. So, WD is geared toward new players that have just started or do not have much experence. That is why they only showcase the new army or the new uber unit since, "if it is in WD it has to be good." It is marketing 101.

Sidstyler wrote:God knows it's not because you can't afford the new one. You probably have 6.

*counts*

Two Chaos Land Raiders... two regular Loyalist Land Raiders, one old Crusader, one new Crusader, one Redeemer. Oddly the new Crusader I bought by accident. No really, by accident.

wuestenfux wrote:

dannnnnnnnny wrote:I am enjoying the irony in the article being named Standard Bearer yet it seems that if anything the article is decreasing moral in the troops.

The Standard Bearer should increase the moral in the troops.
But the opposite seems to be the case.

Morale refers to a group's inherent faith and belief in a cause or task.

Moral refers to principles of right and wrong.

Though I guess "moral" is sometimes used in a similar context as the first definition, except
then it's used as an adjective. "Moral victories," for instance, refer to intangible effects that
are simply perceived or felt.

However, if you want to say that Jervis is crushing your spirit, then you're talking about "morale."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niceas wrote:***warning*** Tangent ***warning***

For those of you who play Warmachine/Hordes, what do you think of No Quarter? Is it as reviled as White Dwarf?

Did somebody call for math?!

No Quarter is not Reviled. It's 7 dollars and it only releases every other month. The things
to look forward to in No Quarter are preview rules, painting/terrain articles, and the
background material for both the models and the IKRPG.

My favorite are their takes on providing background material.

The Gavyn Kyle files reveals the characters of the Iron Kingdoms through the eyes of
a master spy, Gavyn Kyle. Through interviews, stolen letters and copies of reports, he
prepares a dossier of a single Iron Kingdom character in his article (The Amon Ad-Raza
is a personal favorite. The reports were along the lines of "wtf this guy isn't wearing a
shirt and he's fighting warjacks!").

Guts and Gears is the other favorite. Sometimes they prepare cutaway artwork to
reveal the internal workings of the model in focus, they show alternate color schemes
on the model, tactics to use with that model, and in-depth backgrounds. It was in Guts
and Gears that I learned how Praetorian Swordsmen earned the double swords- they
defeated another Swordsman and take their blade as part of their reward and promotion
to the Praetorians.

Pendrake Encounters is okay, but I don't RPG much. Mostly the article was good for
laughs as the Cygnaran avoided danger but his assistants never made it out alive
when exploring and cataloging monsters.

I don't know if this can continue indefinitely (much like their model release schedule), but
it's well worth the seven dollars to read any text scripted by their lead writer, Douglas
Seacat.

Perhaps if the "Veteran" gamer crowd put their money where their mouths are, Citadel Journal might still be around today.

Get rid of Standard bearer, and get rid of Jervis completely. Standard Bearer is just propaganda. Jervis makes some appaling changes, then rambles for three or four pages in White Dwarf, trying to justify these changes and convince people not to get pissed off. Which, personally, just makes me more annoyed.
Remember the Blood Angles article? Where he tried to convince us that being hit with the bland-hammer was a good thing? Appallingly obvious double-speak. Jervis, black is not white just because you say it is. Give us back Chapter Approved, PLEASE, so those four pages can be spent fixing things instead of making excuses.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Perhaps if the "Veteran" gamer crowd put their money where their mouths are, Citadel Journal might still be around today.

I did, it isn't.

@George, unfortunately, one veteran gamer coughing up for CJ is nothing. GW needs enough vets to pony up so CJ generates an operating profit.
____

Samus666 wrote:Standard Bearer is just propaganda.

Really?

You don't say!

Next, you'll be telling us that WD is nothing more than a marketing rag that GW manages to convince the naive to pay money for...