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Let me just say: I have no idea who Lady Gaga is, nor have I read anything in this thread. But I saw this and remembered this thread in OT.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
Albatross wrote:
I'm a musician with 13 years experience, as well as being a Singer/Songwriter, @sebster. Do I qualify to offer my opinion on whether she is good or bad? Oh, thanks!
You certainly can offer your opinion but it doesn't make it valid. I'm the same as you (14 years guitar/piano/vocal lessons and singer/songwriter and DIY local producer), but I don't think that my opinion is worth two farts in a pillow when it comes to people that have sold millions of albums. Apparently they are doing something right and I am not. If she's not talented then she has one helluva PR man (or woman).
"Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
I really have no opinion on Lady Gaga one way or the other, but I wanted to mention that there are plenty of great musicians you never hear of because they don't have a marketing team or PR people to push them to people. Conversely, there's plenty of artists who sell lots of records and who are considered by many to be poor musicians.
I think you are vastly underestimating the power of marketing, youngblood.
BlackDracoSLC wrote:"Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
Good is a relative term especially when applied to music. Is good equated with being technical? Or is it something more intangible as being able to determine how people (whatever the desired audience) will react to certain note combinations and rhythms?
Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
I really have no opinion on Lady Gaga one way or the other, but I wanted to mention that there are plenty of great musicians you never hear of because they don't have a marketing team or PR people to push them to people. Conversely, there's plenty of artists who sell lots of records and who are considered by many to be poor musicians.
I think you are vastly underestimating the power of marketing, youngblood.
please, tell us more about this mythical process oh wise one
BlackDracoSLC wrote:"Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
Good is a relative term especially when applied to music. Is good equated with being technical? Or is it something more intangible as being able to determine how people (whatever the desired audience) will react to certain note combinations and rhythms?
I thought the basics of this had already been covered. What lady GaGaGAG-cough cough spit... does is entertainment, not necessarily music focused nonetheless. She has created a brand in which she can sell more records by default. I would chime in further, that good, is not as relative term as some artists might think.
Whether or not something is appealing for whatever reason, does not make it good. I happen to like the sound of glass breaking, but looping the sound of glass breaking... does not make "good music". Experimental, most definitely, but not good. I can poop in a hand-bag, and call it art, and explain why it is art; but yes, it is still freaking poop in a handbag for everyone to see. The only reason it is art is because enough people "say so" (which is a psychological debate in itself), and art of this nature (music as well) is limited by this to an extreme degree. So in 5 years, she will be tossed into the pile, and a new persona will be branded, whether successful or not. Lady GaGa is not a particular amazing anything to me, but she is not much of a musician (at least in her current "form") either way.
Sensationalism sells, and in the music biz, it is entirely appropriate. But as they say, "If a tree falls in the forest, does it even freaking matter."
The best parallel I can draw with a graceful tone to mainstream music (well, garbage more often than not, but I think real garbage sounds better anyway) would be the rainforest. Lots of stuff happens there, but there are also a massive number of trees falling, and none of these trees really mattered. The spectacle was what mattered, the whole culture of music is what mattered. The crowd is what mattered, the music was an afterthought at best. Homogenized most definitely, and to a degree that makes it less than music, but more than a jingle.
If all mountains are but hills, how would anyone know the sky from the sea?
I would refer to the Tim and Eric awesome show, in which, there are about 30 seconds of statistical funny per season, the rest of which is really not that funny at all. Perhaps I am being hyperbolic, but the entire premise of that show is Hyperbole... and strange photoshopped images. Maybe I am a stickler for production, dunno really. I like aquateen hunger-force though, it just brings a real creativity with it, and skips the nonsense when needed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/19 19:48:09
Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
I really have no opinion on Lady Gaga one way or the other, but I wanted to mention that there are plenty of great musicians you never hear of because they don't have a marketing team or PR people to push them to people. Conversely, there's plenty of artists who sell lots of records and who are considered by many to be poor musicians.
I think you are vastly underestimating the power of marketing, youngblood.
please, tell us more about this mythical process oh wise one
I don't understand why you felt the need for a sarcastic one-liner, nor did I ever claim to be a master marketer myself. My comment was mostly directed at youngblood's equating her talent with her success. My point is that there are successful musicians/artists (which I suppose which would be best represented by record sales and the size of venues they play) that have less talent than the average musician yet manage to make more money either by being able to promote themselves or hiring someone else to do it.
And yes, I'm aware that 'good' is subjective when it comes to music, which is why I put quotes around the word good in my previous statement. My apologizes if that was confusing.
I guess my main point is that talent does not always equal success, and vice versa.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/19 20:36:02
BlackDracoSLC wrote:"Selling records" does not equal "Making 'good' music"
I really have no opinion on Lady Gaga one way or the other, but I wanted to mention that there are plenty of great musicians you never hear of because they don't have a marketing team or PR people to push them to people. Conversely, there's plenty of artists who sell lots of records and who are considered by many to be poor musicians.
I think you are vastly underestimating the power of marketing, youngblood.
And I think you're vastly underestimating the skill involved in marketing. You don't just get a pile of money for a marketing budget and watch the albums start moving out the door, you have to find a place in media, and keep people interested. Lady Gaga, so far, has done it quite well.
She's also done it with really stylised clothes and wacky productions, which if nothing else is a lot more interesting that virgin/whore routine that Britney mastered and so many starlets were following before Lady Gaga.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
For whatever it's worth, Michael Bolton on Lady Gaga:
“I was taking a break from production when my manager and the label tag-teamed me on the phone about writing with a young artist named Lady Gaga who I had never heard of – but they were raving about – they said that she was a huge fan of mine and wanted to write with me. When I met her in the studio later that night, I realized she was not only about to have a big hit record but Gaga was a superstar about to launch – her energy was so high and her focus excited me,” he added. “She reminded me of a young Madonna – with more exuberance and emphasis on the art rather than the marketing.”
Yeah, and Micheal Bolton only does it for the art. No doubt this chick is going to sell some records and make some cash, maybe more than I'll see in my life. That doesn't make her artistically relevant.
Ahh, Weird Al FTW....I CLAIM THIS THREAD IN THE NAME OF BLUE MEN BANGING ON PVC PIPES
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/22 08:47:53
Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:For whatever it's worth, Michael Bolton on Lady Gaga:
“I was taking a break from production when my manager and the label tag-teamed me on the phone about writing with a young artist named Lady Gaga who I had never heard of – but they were raving about – they said that she was a huge fan of mine and wanted to write with me. When I met her in the studio later that night, I realized she was not only about to have a big hit record but Gaga was a superstar about to launch – her energy was so high and her focus excited me,” he added. “She reminded me of a young Madonna – with more exuberance and emphasis on the art rather than the marketing.”
I know someone else that reminds me of someone else too!!! What are the odds of that one there right then with the timing what now?
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
, Hell 80's pop is actually pretty good.
2000 Points
