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Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Slaves RAI vs RAW.

The rulebook entry for the 'slave explosion' says d3, st3 hits for front rank then 1 per rank after that.... but in the latest White Dwarf the guy who wrote the book explained that it was rank bonus only.

Fool should have had someone else read the book. We picked up on it immediately on reading, the insanity of the way it is written and planned 20 long conga lines of slaves....

Remember WD is written ~6months before it hits the shelves. This is ample time for tweaks to be made here and there in the army book.

And the final draft for the army book/codex is sent off at least 5 months before release to the printers.

I know this because the tyranid codex has been at the printers for the last month.


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Also if what you says is true (not arguing your point, just the stupidity of the writer) then he has deliberately gone and changed a perfectly acceptable, well written and well thoughtout/balanced rule to a ridiculous piece of rubbish.

I tell my writing students to have others read their writing before submitting it, and it makes me sad when they don't. When a multi-million dollar corporation (that I send waaay too much money to) does the same...

as you see no one listens to thier teachers.


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as you see no one listens to thier teachers
jk

IM GOING WITH AN ESHIN/SKYRE BUILD AND WITH 4 UNITS OF CLANRATS 3 NIGHTRUNNERS AND 2 DOOMWHEELS 5 JEZZIALS AND A BELL ILL JUST HAFT TO CHARGE CHARGE CHARGE.

plaugerat wrote:IM GOING WITH AN ESHIN/SKYRE BUILD AND WITH 4 UNITS OF CLANRATS 3 NIGHTRUNNERS AND 2 DOOMWHEELS 5 JEZZIALS AND A BELL ILL JUST HAFT TO CHARGE CHARGE CHARGE.

Turn your caps off.

I've been espousing the Abomination as pretty broken, but to tell you the truth, when you look at the comp of the army with magic defense, there are definately ways around it. Enemy takes Lore of Fire, lore of Tzeentch - basically anything flaming and it can be in trouble. Skaven magic defense is really around either A. Taking a Grey Seer for the LvL 4 caster and defense, followed up by either some plague priests or engineers for the extra dispel dice or B. Going magic light and carrying a couple scrolls to give you enough time to get into combat (basically on turn 3ish).
That gives a caster 2-3 turns to fireball/magic the abomination to death - needing 5s to wound it, as long as you get the spell off (fiery blast being especially nasty), you can realistically put 2-3 wounds a turn on that thing.
Throw in some of the additional stuff with flaming attacks, flaming shooty stuff - opponents just can't let the abomination get into combat is all. I watched a Slann list this weekend kill an abomination by turn 2 - pretty nasty.

What I got from the rule is that any one point suffered by the Abom from flames prevents insures its death.

ZF-

If you mean flaming attacks don't allow a regen save, then yeah

Or specifically, if the Abomination incurs a flaming hit, it can't use the 'come back to life' rule or whatever its called.

LunaHound wrote:
Probably 30 jezzails to make up for the nerfed rattling gun -_-

That one.

Platuan4th wrote:

plaugerat wrote:IM GOING WITH AN ESHIN/SKYRE BUILD AND WITH 4 UNITS OF CLANRATS 3 NIGHTRUNNERS AND 2 DOOMWHEELS 5 JEZZIALS AND A BELL ILL JUST HAFT TO CHARGE CHARGE CHARGE.

Turn your caps off.

Plat, he spelled his own username wrong, I don't think he knows how to turn caps lock off.

Hello - finally i'm back at Dakka.

Long story of being away, but hey it's good.

I just read on this thread that Skaven have no magic defense?

I don't think that this is entirely correct.

I've recently seen a veteran skaven player (who owns a legit 13,000 point army of the little buggers) completely dominate every magic phase and wipe out every army he's faced in 2000 points since the book came out.

His answer: Many many Plague Priests with the ubiquitous Dispel Scrolls.

His army at 2000 pts is basically Clan Pestilens with a ton of Plague Monks, Priests, Slaves, Catapults, Censer Bearers and Skrolk.

He sends in the slaves as suicide rat bombers and then lets the Monks and other units mop up.

He's had three armies that have troubled him:

Ogres - hard to wound and take down.
WoC - Damned Armour and Toughness.
Orcs - Horde like tough guys.

I must admit that Pestilens is my fave Clan, but I might end up doing a Ratzilla list with Throt, a ton of Rat Ogres, some Slaves, Swarms and other Moulder goodies plus two HPA.


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The same veteran player is thinking of taking Queek and a ton of Stormvermin as core choices.

I question his sanity, but could it work?

How viable is a rat ogre heavy list? I have a buddy who's working on skaven and loves the rat ogre models and has about 16 of them so far. Can they be used effectively? I remember lots of people saying Rat Ogres were terrible choices in the last two army books, but has something changed this time around?

put it this way bbb, if the rat ogres get into combat they have a ok chance of winning it, but not great. its the getting to the combat thats the problem. they are Real easy to kill by shooting, still 16 would give me pause. try it and see.

also, does anyone know the base size for the hell pit abomination? I was thinking about scratchbuilding one for my friend, but wasn't sure how big it should be. I'm guessing chariot sized base and hydra sized monster.

I asked a friend (the same veteran player) about the Ratzilla possibility and he said he would add the following key things to the list...

Vermin Lord/Throt/Warlord on Bonebreaker.

Take the Vermin Lord for a very large threatening unit that can beat face and has some good magic, probably only in large games. Take Throt if you want a lot of Rat Ogres. Take the Warlord on Bonebreaker in a Deathstar Unit of Rat Ogres - tool him up, wind him up and let him go.

Slaves.

Large units of them to soak up fire, block LOS for the Rat Ogres and create Tarpits.

Rat Swarms.

Tarpits.

Rat Ogres.

As many as you can field. These things are strong in combat and can bring down nearly anything with their high strength and high number of attacks. Downside is WS:3 and they have no armour save, but if you can saturate the battlefield with Rat Ogre units you can create a big headache for your opponent.

Hell Pit Abomination.

Nasty pieces of work these. They will attract a lot of firepower, usually away from your Rat Ogres, which is not a bad thing as that means your Rat Ogre's may make it into combat. My friend has two converted up using the Warhammer Giant and a load of Rat Ogre and spare Skaven bits.

Well thats his two cents anyways.

You know noone at our store had noticed that part about flaming attacks negating the Abomination coming back rule. Interesting.
As far as magic defense - I'm not sure how taking tons of plague priests really answers that - I mean, you can only have 4 max in a 2000 game and if he's running Skrolk, your looking at 7 dispel dice max. You could take a couple scrolls in your priests, but maxing out at 3 leaves you without a BSB as well. Matter of preference really I guess - I just like to be able to reroll my break tests.

As far as the abomination base size - I've asked the same question myself (along with the warlitter base size) - the general consensus seems to be a chariot (as it's a big monster), but due to there isn't a model, and it's a monster, some folks have said 50mm x 50mm. I'm leaning towards chariot base.

Mattbranb wrote:As far as the abomination base size - I've asked the same question myself (along with the warlitter base size) - the general consensus seems to be a chariot (as it's a big monster), but due to there isn't a model, and it's a monster, some folks have said 50mm x 50mm. I'm leaning towards chariot base.

at first I thought it was a 50x50, but the image in the book makes it look like it's a melding of skaven machinery and beast and it causes impact hits, so those together would sound like a chariot base to me, but I'd really like a clear ruling before I try to build anything.

I'm building my abomination on a 50x50. If there is ever a ruling saying it should be on the larger base, I can always transplant it.

Im making mine on chariot base , it can barely fit that atm too hmm...

Anyways , larger monsters ( including FW ) are often mounted on chariot size bases , so cant really go wrong.

Going 50x50 with mine. Yea, it's harder to tag with stone throwers and such, but it also doesn't have a 100mm flank that could be used to nab more hits when the abomination decides to do the splash attak that crushes everybody in base.

Also, my conversion fits better on a square than a rectangle

- Salvage

50X100 for me, i cant fit it on anything smaller, and if it comes to a question on base size its easy to just say it can be attacked the full length, but i only count the front half. here i wont have a problem in any of hte tournaments.

We should use valkyrie flight stands to minimize the base size if its an issue >.>

Abomination screams chariot base to me. All big monsters of its ilk are on chariot bases this days - see also Stegadon, Hydra, Dragon & Giant.

Giant is not on a chariot base.

It is on 50x75.


I wish they would standardise monster base sizes.

But for the skaven 'pushed' machines I'm perfectly happy with a 20mm basis for sizing to allow ease of ranking.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
I wish they would standardise monster base sizes.

But for the skaven 'pushed' machines I'm perfectly happy with a 20mm basis for sizing to allow ease of ranking.

Seemed to me 50x50 was the standard for large target monsters, but then that damn (sexy) dragon came out and messed things up

Is the bell/furnace actually on a 60x100 base? The pics in the armybook look like it, and if so, good on you Dub, that's pretty handy.

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:
Is the bell/furnace actually on a 60x100 base? The pics in the armybook look like it, and if so, good on you Dub, that's pretty handy.

Yes, it takes up the space of 15 models, so that would be 3 20mm bases by 5 20mm bases.

Ive an old bell so looks like good times for a bit of basing and conversion. (never built the thing)
As a side note. any idea if there is an official FAQ/Erratta for the army book?
And has any one managed to count the spelling mistakes and errors in the book? (Hell i can spell better than this, and thats a very disapointing and above all scrary as hell thought.


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Oh and i'll be trying the new army out next week. looks like Warlord, bsb, X2 plague preists.

and nothing but inf, with a tooled up set of globers and many small units of giant rats for interfearance.

Hawkins wrote:
And has any one managed to count the spelling mistakes and errors in the book? (Hell i can spell better than this, and thats a very disapointing and above all scrary as hell thought.

Cool, a new word...

Scrary: defn To mock somebody else's inadequacies whilst make the same error.

Sorry Hawkins, I jest I know everybody makes mistakes writing their posts. And yes, GW desperately need to do some proof reading.

EDIT - Lol, spotted a gramatical error on my post. Oh dear!