Heretic! Game One: Honoris Causa, ended: VICTORIA IMPERIALIS!

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**Valhallan42nd**

I would also like to delcare that if anyone wants to use a skull on me, please do so. I have nothing to hide.

**Thor665**

I'm sorry, I didn't realize when I pointed out things I thought you had done that were suspicious I was being divisive. I guess the lesson is I shouldn't point out anything suspicious you've done? Don't count on that lesson being learned.

I note you are including in your servo skull numbers the plan to shoot someone semi regularly ((every Game Day)) - why should we do this?

((OOC with the time limit in effect for the Heretics, shooting players seems to help them more then it helps us. Why do you think we should shoot anybody at this juncture?))

**Gornall**

Thor665 wrote:I note you are including in your servo skull numbers the plan to shoot someone semi regularly ((every Game Day)) - why should we do this?

((OOC with the time limit in effect for the Heretics, shooting players seems to help them more then it helps us. Why do you think we should shoot anybody at this juncture?))

OOC:: Because it's more fun that way!

**Gornall**

With the skulls, do you think it is worth it to simply target 4 seperate people with 4 different people getting reports back, or is it better to do a 4 person round-robin where each person getting a report back is also getting investigated? The first option provides more overall data to analyze, but the second would provide confirmation, and if we're lucky could force the heretics hands if we happen to target one of them.

I think the first option would probably be best, simply because we would have to believe anyone claiming their target is guilty. Anyone lying about that would be easily found out. The only way a lie would work is if a heretic was investigating another heretic. By making the deployment of skulls more random (rather than a fixed round-robin), I think it would be harder for them to coordinate/manipulate the votes needed to achieve that situation.

OOC:: Is there a way for us to vote to move to the next night phase rather?

**Thor665**

Gornall wrote:OOC:: Because it's more fun that way!

((OOC - I cannot find a fault in your logic sir, and would like to subscribe to your periodical.))

**Demogerg**

My suggestion is to set each skull on a different person, with a different person getting each result, only 1 person will be left without either a result or an inquiry, and simple deduction can then be used to locate the traitors in an efficient manner, using logic and reason as opposed to relying on stories and charisma.

just to throw some names out there (I am merely going down the list, if you want to change who investigates who, thats fine with me, albeit its Very suspicious)

Thor665 Investigated by Orkeosaurus

Gornall Investigate by BrotherStynier

Valhallan42nd Investigated by Demogerg

Mekboy Investigated by Lord-Loss

Arctik-Firangi the odd-man-out.

**Gornall**

That sounds like a reasonable idea. One thing I just thought of however, is that we do run the risk of the traitors finding out who the most devout among us are (OOC:: Any pro-town roles).

**Lord-Loss**

Doesnt it take over half of us to vote for a skull to be launched on someone?

Im all for this idea though.

**Thor665**

Lord-Loss wrote:Doesnt it take over half of us to vote for a skull to be launched on someone?

It does, and the final vote is who gets the investigating information.

Gornall wrote:One thing I just thought of however, is that we do run the risk of the traitors finding out who the most devout among us are (OOC:: Any pro-town roles).

That is a pretty solid potential risk since they do appear to find everything out about the person. We just have to be careful about who we use as investigators. On the same side it's a bit of cat and mouse about not wanting the skulls to give the heretics too much info ((OOC - via a power role being investigated and outed)). Perhaps we just make an agreement that any interesting information that suggests someone is more able to help us be kept quiet and they are simply reported as a regular crewman?

**Lord-Loss**

Wait, if one of the investigators were a traitor couldn't they claim the person they just investigated is a traitor, then get him shot?

**Thor665**

They could, but if we shoot that person and they're innocent then we would know the Investigator was guilty and could shoot them next time.

**Demogerg**

Lord-Loss wrote:Wait, if one of the investigators were a traitor couldn't they claim the person they just investigated is a traitor, then get him shot?

Exactly, and when said Innocent person is killed, and we all find out that he was innocent, then the person who Lied and claimed that the innocent person whas a traitor would be shot and killed.

**Gornall**

One thing I do not like is Demogerg simply stating what the ordering would be. While I understand that is the ordering on the roster, (speaking hypothetically here) if you were a traitor, you could have noticed that even with it's seemingly random nature, the ordering could benefit you and your accomplice. Could we come up with multiple options and draw straws/flip coins/other random process to pick one of the multiple orderings to prevent any one person from being in control?

**Orkeosaurus**

I've been thinking about it, and I've come to this conclusion: the loyal techpriests should declare themselves as such.

This means if two people declare themselves to be techpriests we know they're telling the truth. If four people declare themselves to be techpriests they will be set into two factions, and we will know one faction to be loyal and one to be heretical.

If only two people answer the call, they cannot be lynched, because we know they are loyal. Thus, they will be targeted by the heretics; this is a necessary evil, and the Omnissiah will remember their sacrifice. The advantage to this is it gives us a better chance to use the servo skulls. We have two options here.

Option 1: we won't let either techpriest use the skulls, because they are a good choice to be killed. Thus, the heretics will have to choose between letting both of the techpriests live or letting every person using a servo skull live.

Option 2: we let both of the techpriests have the skulls; we will probably have one survive, and we know he can be trusted to tell us the truth about who was investigated.

If the heretics decide to masquerade as loyal techpriests their goose is cooked. We'll shoot one of the four "techpriests", and if they're a heretic, shoot their partner next turn, if they're loyalist, we know who to kill the next two turns. We can then use the servo skulls to investigate the possibility of a third heretic.

The problem I see is that if we don't do this now, the heretics may kill a loyal techpriest, and that would allow a heretic to claim that he was his partner. The real partner wouldn't be able to garner any more proof than him.

Also, while reducing the number of (loyalist) people will increase the chances of the skull investigating a heretic if given to a loyalist, it will also increase the chances of a heretic getting the skull. For this reason, I'm more inclined to release them all today.

What do you guys think? If you have disagreements, please state them in a concise and logical manner, so as to avoid "snowing" my ideas in a manner which would prove them to be valid but too dangerous to you.

Also, please, let us discuss this further and agree, before the techpriests reveal themselves, or any voting is done concerning the servo skulls (or god forbid, the laspistol).

**Gornall**

I don't know if revealing themselves offers us with anything besides an easy target for the heretics. Remember, there is at LEAST two traitors among us. If there is a third, it would be likely they could kill both of the Techpriests in one night. However, with us using the skulls, it's possible that the Tech Priests could be revealed anyway. It's a tricky proposition any way you look at it.

**Thor665**

I agree, we should work this over to verify there are no potential loopholes to be exploited.

The techpriests coming forward seems a good idea overall. getting two confirmed loyalists who can self-verify is a difficult roadblock for any heretical scum amongst us. I also like the cut of option 2, as that way we can verify loyalist eyes only upon investigation reports which will provide us even more accurate information.

The only potential issue I see is that techpriests coming forward now puts a big target on them early - but I think as long as we get them using servo skulls anyway (which would put a big target on them no matter what) alleviates that as an issue - thoughts?

I'd also very much like to hear Valhallan come back and more fully discuss why it's such a bad idea to release right now. He seemed pretty stringent about that and more and more it's looking like immediate release is clearly the tactically more sound option. I want to know if he still feels this way, and if he doesn't; why?

**Gornall**

I do not like Option 2, as I think it makes it much easier for the heretics to eliminate the benefits of both the skulls and having two known loyalists in one fell swoop. By forcing them to kill people that are unknown (to us) in their loyalties (or risk the skulls revealing too much information), it will reduce the field of choices we have to make much faster than if the Tech Priests controlled the skulls (and were subsequently killed.

**Thor665**

Gornall wrote:Remember, there is at LEAST two traitors among us. If there is a third, it would be likely they could kill both of the Techpriests in one night.

That's a very good point that I hadn't thought of. If there are enough heretics they might just overpower the techpriests and rob us of both confirmed loyalists but also potentially two investigations.

**Orkeosaurus**

My understanding is the only way both techpriests could be killed would be for there to be two regular heretics and a possessed, or four regular heretics.

However one thing to note is that the heretics might target whichever techpriest's investigation they think is more damming.

**Thor665**

Orkeosaurus wrote:My understanding is the only way both techpriests could be killed would be for there to be two regular heretics and a possessed, or four regular heretics.

((OOC - You are correct - but it seems logical to suppose that if we get 3 heretics 1 will be possessed. I suspect (and hope, for the Imperium's sake) that we do not have 4 heretics onboard.))

However one thing to note is that the heretics might target whichever techpriest's investigation they think is more damming.

That is true, presuming they lack the ability to kill both at the same time.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Orkeosaurus wrote:My understanding is the only way both techpriests could be killed would be for there to be two regular heretics and a possessed, or four regular heretics.

However one thing to note is that the heretics might target whichever techpriest's investigation they think is more damming.

But still you wish to put both of our Techpriests into harms way with the hope that they can root out the heretics before they are both slain?

**Valhallan42nd**

If it saves the Glorious Titan, then I think the priests revealing themselves is a valid tactic.

**Thor665**

Valhallan42nd wrote:If it saves the Glorious Titan, then I think the priests revealing themselves is a valid tactic.

Along with that thought, Valhallan, it still begs the question of where you stand vis'a'vi the timing of a servo skull launch. Do you support a launch now ((Day 1)) with a Techpriest reveal? What about without one?

**Orkeosaurus**

BrotherStynier wrote:But still you wish to put both of our Techpriests into harms way with the hope that they can root out the heretics before they are both slain?

Eh, they're expendible.

The problem is that if one of the techpriests dies then we can't get two-way confirmation on who the two techpriests are. That means all it takes is for one genestealer to claim to be the techpriest; but if we find out he was lying we don't have a lead as to who the other genestealers are. That's why this plan will probably work best today, before anyone is lynched, if we go through with it.

**Gornall**

I think it is an interesting tactic... but I don't know if it is the best one. What does their coming out give us? What does it give our enemies? Yes, it allows us to KNOW who two innocents are early on, but they would simply be killed very soon, depriving us of that benefit. Would it be better for all of us to remain unaware of who the Tech Priests are, that way the heretics have to kill loyal people at random, allowing the Tech Priest to reveal themselves at a more opportune time, such as when one of them is in danger of being shot? That would allow us to know who likely culprits are as they were trying to shoot an innocent. Further, it is a ploy that the heretics cannot try, as if they did, the real Tech Priests could step forward after the herectics have placed themselves in the open. I think both methods have advantages and pitfalls that must be considered carefully.

**Gornall**

Orkeosaurus wrote: The problem is that if one of the techpriests dies then we can't get two-way confirmation on who the two techpriests are. That means all it takes is for one genestealer to claim to be the techpriest; but if we find out he was lying we don't have a lead as to who the other genestealers are. That's why this plan will probably work best today, before anyone is lynched, if we go through with it.

That is a very good point. To discredit the Tech Priests if they both revealed today would require both of the traitors. However, I am confused by what you mean by "genestealers"?

**Orkeosaurus**

Why... I merely hypothesize that the ultimate goal of this takeover is to destroy the Poseidon Complex on Gordela II. This would allow the traitors to procure the geneseed samples in cold storage there, which I fear they will use to their dastardly ends.

Hence the term "genestealer" (although I vaguely remember there being a type of alien with a similar nickname).

**Valhallan42nd**

Indeed Orkeosarus, this reminds me of a game we used to play on Gyphonne IV when I was a child. "Purge the Xenos Sympathizer"...

Of course, the stakes are much deadlier now.

**Manchu**

The day phase of Turn 1 has ended. Please PM night actions by 11:59PM two days hence. Seven turns will remain thereafter.

**Manchu**

Day Phase of Turn Two Begins

In alphabetical order:

Gornall
Stynier
Valhallan

have been wounded! Each has one remaining wound.

This day phase will end three days hence at 11:59PM EST. Good luck to all!