Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Notes being taken...

jp400
By the way... those army photos, I was in the army, and I NEVER saw a girl that cute in uniform.

I think they are sit-in models

::responded before I had read the thread::

I don't think the heads look bad- just a bit rough and very anime inspired. I would actually like to try painting them up before passing judgment. Two suggestions leap to mind- more defined bone structure and less prominent, more recessed eyes. The face is heavily defined by the underlying bone structure and that doesn't really seem to come through here, especially at the brow and cheeks. Likewise the eyes lie in a orb socket and here the seem to protrude too much.

It's a start, though, and I am glad to see it!

It is hard to sculpt faces, especially female faces.

I think what you guys do is great, and I'm actually working on getting an order together from you sometime soon (probably after new year). I tend to agree with everyone else that the heads initially leave something to be desired, however, I'm not sure they would turn out as terrible as some posters have thought. Is there any way you could perhaps hold one against an IG body so that we can see it more at a truescale rather than a zoomed in detail shot like what you've got going on now?

Concerning the individual heads you've posted,

Pictures 1-3, too dark to see good detail.

Picture 4: Face of left is a flat out no go. The face detail is good. Well defined brow and eyes, but I can't abide the haircut on that one, I can't get past what I'm seeing in the cheeks. Are those sideburns, ears, or what? Also, that one looks like it just ate something really sour as a result of it. If you were going for something gaunt, I'd not put any detail into that in sculpting and shadow it properly at a painting phase.

Face on the right has promise. I like the hair because its feminine yet still believable (not giant spiky anime ponytail). Eyes on that one are too far apart and too big. I also think that the brow is too flat, giving her too much forehead.

Picture 5: Left face. Same complaint about eyes and brow, otherwise I've no complaints about this one. Right picture: I had to start at this one for a second or two because I thought it got smushed, but I get that it's an eyepatch now. I think your string should be thinner, maybe flatter looking (hard to deal with when it's already .1 MM wide, I know) and should go around the head slightly lower. See GIS result for eyepatch, though I guess upon myself looking, I see them being worn higher on the face as well. Other than that, same complaint about the eyes.

Honestly, I don't think the haircuts are that bad. I find they're believable, which is why I play guard to begin with and not SPESS MARIENHS!!!!11one. I kind of feel overall as though they're standing there with an expressionless "zombie" look, which is being driven home with the mouths slightly agape. Maybe try for a grimace or open the mouth a little more for a full out scream?

I understand that you're more comfortable with the "Asian look" due largely to locale and that's how they ended up as a result, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they don't match the existing heads on the rest of my army quite yet, and that'll keep me off from them. I think they could be kept and perhaps you could make a male Asian group of heads to go along with them as an overall set. You could do sets of 10 of them, 5 each, to do an entire squad at a time.

Modeling faces is difficult, no matter if you're drawing, sculpting, or doing computer modeling. For some interesting reading, check out the "Uncanny valley" effect. Don't give up and be very patient and you'll get there.

Chapterhouse wrote:Notes being taken...

jp400
By the way... those army photos, I was in the army, and I NEVER saw a girl that cute in uniform.

I think they are sit-in models

When were you in? Cause let me tell you times have changed. Id post some from my detachment, but since I dont have their consent I wont.

combat barbie, this is why british army are superior!
(but only caus eof this 1 point)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8348243.stm

Chapterhouse wrote:Gracias Luna,

Keep it coming.

Go to HobbyLink Japan (hlj.com)

Check out the faces on the resin figures.

You will see some amazing face sculpting there.

____

Chapterhouse wrote:jp400
By the way... those army photos, I was in the army, and I NEVER saw a girl that cute in uniform.

Really?

I was ROTC, and let me tell you, college coeds make for some *very* pretty girls in uniform.

Need some boobs for my cadians or catachan. ;P

Couple of suggestions:
Less pointed chins - they've all got what appear to be heart or diamond shaped heads. With the largish almond eyes they're looking more elf than Human. Combine this with the pointed nose and the features are too long in general.

The third photo - bottom center and right are both good starting points.

Since most of the IG male heads have helmets or close cropped heads, I'd suggest going with more of a WAC or WAVE look than 'Rosie the Riveter' I'd even suggest taking a look at some headshot (worksafe suggestion!) galleries online to get a better feel for it.

I'm curious as to whether the sculptor is making these with reference photos, especially of the same face from multiple angles, nearby or just trying to sculpt a feminine face from memory. Having references should make it easier to avoid things like having the eyes too far apart, too almond shaped or too large. I was thinking that it might be helpful to take pictures of someone specific and work towards sculpting their face at that scale. Not as an attempt to market an exact replica of a famous person's image just as an attempt to see if you could make it recognizable. Most miniatures are sculpted based on concept drawings, reference sketches or paintings. It might be helpful if your sculptor had some of those to give them a better feel for what these should look like. Looking at other companies female faces should help as well. Sometimes it helps to see how someone has interpreted something rather than looking at the thing itself.

If I were to attempt it myself I'd try sculpting the heads on a guard torso just to get the scale right. The main challenge there is that the cadians are particularly thick for their scale. This leads to a potentially odd looking combination unless you are trying to create a woman with a larger body type, in which case the head would need to be shaped differently.

DO WANT! So how long will you guys be selling these?

By the way... those army photos, I was in the army, and I NEVER saw a girl that cute in uniform.

Maybe you shouldnt piss off your CO mate
Got a couple of cute girlies in my unit, not that i'd say that with my girl reading though
also, before people say it, yes, women do make great soldiers.
Funnily enough, one of the best shots in our unit is a girl


Now, back OT: Nick, the origional sculpts aint bad mate, but i think alot of details need to be more refined.
I think the eyes and noses are 2 key points here, since the eyes tend to be pretty big, which draw alot of attention to that.
Also, the noses look a tad pointy (Jacko?)
May be worth thinking "feth the hair" and working on the faces 1st.
Once you have a base sculpt for the face you can work on hair, but i wouldnt try and do everything at once mate, you will just make it harder to do

Also I forgot to mention go for plastic or resin. Assuming it isn't too late of course. Metal sucks to paint and just doesn't look as good.

This is just a thought, but we are doing genetics right now in biology... And we had to make babies (Scandalous, I know). We got packets that determine every feature on the face--from widow's peak to eyebrow size and placement to eye shape and whether or not an earlobe is attached. I was actually able to find the exact packet we used...

http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1994/parenthood.php

There you are. It doesn't lead to porn or some virus, it's a science site.

Hope it helps.

Rico...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JD21290 wrote:

By the way... those army photos, I was in the army, and I NEVER saw a girl that cute in uniform.

Maybe you shouldnt piss off your CO mate
Got a couple of cute girlies in my unit, not that i'd say that with my girl reading though
also, before people say it, yes, women do make great soldiers.
Funnily enough, one of the best shots in our unit is a girl


Now, back OT: Nick, the origional sculpts aint bad mate, but i think alot of details need to be more refined.
I think the eyes and noses are 2 key points here, since the eyes tend to be pretty big, which draw alot of attention to that.
Also, the noses look a tad pointy (Jacko?)
May be worth thinking "feth the hair" and working on the faces 1st.
Once you have a base sculpt for the face you can work on hair, but i wouldnt try and do everything at once mate, you will just make it harder to do

Elayne Boosler wrote:"We have women in the military, but they don't put us in the front lines. They don't know if we can fight, if we can kill. I think we can. All the general has to do is walk over to the women and say, 'You see the enemy over there? They say you look fat in those uniforms.'"

I agree - need more work and keep at it.

A bit of inspiration here

http://mybirdie.ca/files/page0_blog_entry5417_1.jpg

As I'm brand new and starting with Guard I am glad to see you're working on this and I like the CHS site I can't add anything that hasn't been said except that's certainly better than what I could do. Keep up the good effort and I'll patiently wait for when you get them ready for sale.

Thanks

They need to well...look more human.

That's what I was thinking and why I didn't offer any "tips" on making them better. Where do you start when the problems are so basic?

Well, here's my attempt at some specific tips. The facial structure of the current heads has almost no depth to it. Real faces have contours. Women have larger foreheads than men, but in general, "softer" facial features. Eyes should be inset, not flush with the surface of the face. I hope this helps.

Hmm maybe they should be relegated to be called Elf heads

emeh. I don't do guard, so my input is probably not valuable to you, but I don't care for them.

Once again wishlisting for CSM parts.

Chapterhouse wrote:Hmm maybe they should be relegated to be called Elf heads

Do they fit on the Eldar / High Elf torsos?

I will check when I get home, they were modeled on the same size as an Eldar head (not that IG and Eldar heads are much different in size).

Seeing as many people think they look pixy-like or elfen, this may be a good use for them.

Chapterhouse wrote:Greens for our 28mm Female heads are done and will be sent off for molding this week (regardless of current critiques). Fit well on IG figures (the scale is the same) I am leaning towards metals for affordability for everyone (.85-$1.00 each cost). Resin would push the cost to about 1.25 each.

Question for you folks, 6 pack or individual sales?

Be gentle on the critiques, its our first foray in naked human heads..

Nick - Chapterhousestudios.com

I'll take a page out of Luna's book.

When I look at these faces, they look off. One eye is higher then another, The patch is just... there. the nose's are off centered, too high or too low, or the pronouncement of the freatures are just odd scaled, as opposed to the head shape.

Anime Heads would actually need the eyes to be a little more defined and wide and at least set to the upper center of the face.
As to the faces themselves, I'd recommend using a glob of clay about the size of a baseball, before you try to do this again, and work on how your cheekbone, chin, and eye sockets look with a little more depth.
The eyes, while anime in style, could easily be more european/ caucasoid, and have more definition actually built up into the cheeks themselves.
These sculpts could actually be worked to evolve into a much better sculpt with a little more indpthness of the face and the definitions of the features, if you add, and take away from the basics of the heads.
As to the eye patch, the eye patch thing needs to be left out for a minute. start with some standard issue heads with some hair styles that fit a short haircut, and add additional pony tail bits, buns, or pony tails, which could easily add in with a fine streak of sculpt, and then added. The same can be said of eye patches, glasses, goggles, bionic implants, monicals, half head of bionic skull/ rough bionics, etc.
Do the face, first. then add the apuratances.

Using the head already available there, just use a small fine drill to drill out the eye socket a little more, use a needle file to shape the cheekbones, chin, and mouth, and hair, then use a bit of greenstuff to add and sculpt around the face, slightly different features to the as is head that you have right now.

There are a couple of books that describe the face in terms of lines, use the features in fine lines, then add or take away from them to develope the features.


To tell the truth, the heads on par are good, at least to me. To tell these guys to look at some other companies heads is kinda an insult. I'd just recommend that you look at a human face, or a magazine at female faces. Those bald assed head sculpts are just that. If you want them, then go over there and get them.
Chapterhouse looks like it wants to get into heads, so do yourself one better and make those heads generic enough that I could use them on other things.

I seem to be the only one that likes those heads, because I can actually drill and sculpt in there with what you have. If those are resin, I might look into them. But if they are metal, I want you to work it so I have something that I really just have to snip, file, and sculpt something like scarves, towels, etc. I could actually do something with them, but on the other people are going to be using these heads on fine detailed miniatures, so if you want them to fit in the context of the figure.

My last recommend is the additionals to the bare head, such as the hair styles, glasses, patches, etc. If you add a patch, then add a headband, if you add a bionic, then you add a little skin growing around it. the same can be said for the eyes, nose, and mouth, but in a much simpler idea. an upturned lip, a wince, a slightly turned nose... etc,etc.

Add a detail, and then add emphise it.

Very good post, I think I will do these in a resin set so people can mess with them if they like. It will be our first foray into "head" bits, and worst case scenario people wont buy this series.

All in all it has been an educational experience for myself and Revliss.

Nick

Your graciousness in requesting comment is quite inspiring! I hope the feedback is useful. I am really glad to see you guys soliciting critique for improvement and I think that is reflected in the quality of comments.

To start, the heads are good first attempt and i am looking forward to the final sculpts.

Now the one thing i dont get, why somebody would put female heads on IG models? I mean, i understand the wish to get some female guards"men", but i dont think this is the answer. Both the Cadian and Catachan models are to muscular to be female.

Just my 2 cent

aurelion wrote:To start, the heads are good first attempt and i am looking forward to the final sculpts.

Now the one thing i dont get, why somebody would put female heads on IG models? I mean, i understand the wish to get some female guards"men", but i dont think this is the answer. Both the Cadian and Catachan models are to muscular to be female.

Just my 2 cent

tbh i think you need to read some IG books alot of the females are bigger bilt than the males.

I like the idea but i dont like the sculpts i am hoping for you guys to do one more human and less elfie lol.
also if you add helmits it will help them look more IG and less out of place in an armie.

Pete

good finnaly female guard which are in the imperial army.

As others have said, the hair looks really good.
But it would be good to have some more helmeted or covered heads.

The only real critique I can offer for the scultpting itself is to define the cheek bones and the eye sockets more.
Otherwise the forehead and chin portions look fine.

Looking forward to more updates

Perhaps use of the 'Golden Ratio' will prove your attempts fruitful?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6838450/Scientists-find-formula-for-beautiful-face.html

http://www.intmath.com/Numbers/mathOfBeauty.php

Its a safe bet that if the heads fit that formula. people will like them more. Since most of the complains were about ear/nose/eye spacing.