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IG conscripts are pretty woeful, they can't fight because they are bs and ws 2 and they can't screen because they are only ld5. They are like grots but worse because you have to buy an 80pts lord commissar to turn them into a useful screen. For that same 140 pts I could nearly have a mechvet melta squad or 2 autocannon squads (nearly).

RedFloyd90 wrote:Why do people bash the fire warrior all the time? I would hesitate to say they are one of the best troops around. They get the best basic ranged weapon, possibly contested by the gauss rifle, decent armor, for a reasonable price.

Zzzz... FW don't need apologists.

No one gives a crap about the strongest basic rifle in the game when the basic rifle is the only rifle. It's been proven over and over (and over) that 12 str 5 AP 5 weapons is inferior to 7 lasguns and 3 plasma rifles or 3 meltas, especially when that squad can stay in it's transport and fire two weapons from firing ports, maintaining killing power and protecting it's troops.

Many people will disagree with this, but the design philosophy of the Tau is flawed when paired with it's application currently. The idea that it's cool that you need 1/3 of your army at 1500 points to kill one enemy squad because they're Tau and Tau are about synergy is fundamentally flawed because Tau are on a clock, a clock that ends when the army gets caught in CC.

With the speed armies close to assault in 5th edition, you can't afford to need 500-700 points to kill 200 points of the enemy.

Space Marine Servitors are pretty awful.

I nominate the Culexus Assassin...

Are you really going to going to field an Inquisitor to get one?

Are you really going to field the assassin when you don't know if you're going to play a psyker army?

Do you really count on the Soulless rule doing anything in a game that is heavy Mech and heavy Fearless?

Have you ever seen one fielded?

After that I recommend Flash Gitz...because it's obvious.

Possessed CSM. Pointless, no use, and expensive...

IMHO, the worst unit in the game is a Space Marine Master of the Forge trying to CC tank. Made of Fail...

I really don't understand how anyone can suggest anything other than the Ethereal with Aun'Va the king of all ethereals.

Seriously compare what you "poor" unit does to this:

205 points

no shooting.
ID from S6 and above.
Makes your army stubborn which for Tau turns your firewarriors into nice assault pillows. Greatly reducing your chances to shoot enemy assaulters.
Makes your whole army (the worst Ld army in the game) take a morale check when he dies.

So for 205 points you get a unit that does no damage to the enemy, makes the rest of your army do less damage to the enemy and then makes half your army run away when he dies. And it costs you 205 points for that privilege!!!

Seriously what even compares to that?

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

RedFloyd90 wrote:Why do people bash the fire warrior all the time? I would hesitate to say they are one of the best troops around. They get the best basic ranged weapon, possibly contested by the gauss rifle, decent armor, for a reasonable price.

2 reasons really.

1 - they are overcosted. 11 pts is the same as a Sister of Battle. On the Tau side you get the pros of a longer ranged (by 6") and stronger gun, access to bonding, defensive grenades and the possibility of markerlights and pinning but lose

1 worse armour save
1 worse BS
1 worse init
1 worse WS
access to specialist weapon upgrades like flamers, heavy flamers and meltas
a squad specialist who can take cc upgrade equipment
book of st lucius which is better than bonding
faith which further lets them enhance the role of their specialist equipment

Seriously compare that statline with sisters, eldar, guard or orks and you start to realise that firewarriors are quite horrendously overcosted.

Name 3 units with Str5 for 11 points.

Then of those three name 2 with 30 inch range

then of those two name 1 that CAN potentially have BS 4 and Ignoring coversaves

Congratulations, you have firewarriors.

They are the ONLY troops choice in the game that can Pen standard rear AV without ANY upgrades with a gun. And they do it from 30 inches.

Pretty good for 11 points each...

now the Ethereal special character... pretty terrible.

I still however stick with my choice for the worst Unit in 40k... Codex: Black Templars

Daemon-Archon wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

RedFloyd90 wrote:Why do people bash the fire warrior all the time? I would hesitate to say they are one of the best troops around. They get the best basic ranged weapon, possibly contested by the gauss rifle, decent armor, for a reasonable price.

2 reasons really.

1 - they are overcosted. 11 pts is the same as a Sister of Battle. On the Tau side you get the pros of a longer ranged (by 6") and stronger gun, access to bonding, defensive grenades and the possibility of markerlights and pinning but lose

1 worse armour save
1 worse BS
1 worse init
1 worse WS
access to specialist weapon upgrades like flamers, heavy flamers and meltas
a squad specialist who can take cc upgrade equipment
book of st lucius which is better than bonding
faith which further lets them enhance the role of their specialist equipment

Seriously compare that statline with sisters, eldar, guard or orks and you start to realise that firewarriors are quite horrendously overcosted.

Name 3 units with Str5 for 11 points.

Then of those three name 2 with 30 inch range

then of those two name 1 that CAN potentially have BS 4 and Ignoring coversaves

Congratulations, you have firewarriors.

They are the ONLY troops choice in the game that can Pen standard rear AV without ANY upgrades with a gun. And they do it from 30 inches.

Pretty good for 11 points each...

now the Ethereal special character... pretty terrible.

I still however stick with my choice for the worst Unit in 40k... Codex: Black Templars

What I'm supposed to be impressed by str 5? Why? It's not like that's any good for troop killing (because their ballistic skill is crap and they get one round of shooting before they die from assault) and its crap for tank killing. Who the hell is presenting you their rear armour from 30" away? To get at the av 10 stuff you can pen you need mobility (+100pts to the cost of the unit) and you need to double tap to have a decent chance of penetrating rear av so you need to get within 12" in which case the fact that its a gun no longer impresses me because I can think of dozens of troop choices able to grab str 5 vs a vehicle (Nobz, space wolves near ragnar, Ba near corbulo, berserkers, bloodletters, sisters of battle, genestealers) and frankly I don't rate them as big anti-tank choice either yet they'll all do it better than the Fire warriors.

11pts looks impressive but it isn't so much the statline and cost per model as it is per unit. 55 minimum for a legal squad then a devilfish to move them anywhere so they can do some good and probably pathfinders in the list somewhere for markerlights. For that cost I can get a tac squad with a meltagun that will be vastly superior against tanks and troops. Hell I can get a Sisters squad that will be vastly betetr against tanks and troops. The fact that the gun is str 5 counts for nothing when most of the time str 5 kills sod all compared to str 4 with a special weapon.

And for a legal unit cost of 55pts I can find tons of things mounting str 5 weapons that are superior to 5 firewarriors on foot.

kanz with big shootas
buggies with twin linked big shootas
deffkoptaz with twin linked big shootaz
land speeders mounting heavy bolters
attack bikes with a heavy bolter and a bolter
vypers with scatter lasers
a crisis suit with a burst cannon, etc

And most of these options can mount stronger and more specialised weapons rather than a generic str5 gun.

So to answer your challenge.

55pts gets you 5 firewarriors at the cheapest you can field, 5 shots at range 30.
60pts gets me two buggies with 36" range and 6 str 5 shots.

To get BS 4 you need a second squad with a markerlight which increases your cost to more like 100 pts in which case 2 landspeeders with heavy bolters, 6more range, better ap, better mobility, 1 more shot and not reliant on a markerlight hit for roughly the same points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daemon-Archon wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

RedFloyd90 wrote:Why do people bash the fire warrior all the time? I would hesitate to say they are one of the best troops around. They get the best basic ranged weapon, possibly contested by the gauss rifle, decent armor, for a reasonable price.

2 reasons really.

1 - they are overcosted. 11 pts is the same as a Sister of Battle. On the Tau side you get the pros of a longer ranged (by 6") and stronger gun, access to bonding, defensive grenades and the possibility of markerlights and pinning but lose

1 worse armour save
1 worse BS
1 worse init
1 worse WS
access to specialist weapon upgrades like flamers, heavy flamers and meltas
a squad specialist who can take cc upgrade equipment
book of st lucius which is better than bonding
faith which further lets them enhance the role of their specialist equipment

Seriously compare that statline with sisters, eldar, guard or orks and you start to realise that firewarriors are quite horrendously overcosted.

Name 3 units with Str5 for 11 points.

Then of those three name 2 with 30 inch range

then of those two name 1 that CAN potentially have BS 4 and Ignoring coversaves

Congratulations, you have firewarriors.

They are the ONLY troops choice in the game that can Pen standard rear AV without ANY upgrades with a gun. And they do it from 30 inches.

Pretty good for 11 points each...

now the Ethereal special character... pretty terrible.

I still however stick with my choice for the worst Unit in 40k... Codex: Black Templars

Pyrovores?

Fire warriors are only 10 points and the minimum squad cost is 60. Not 11 and 55!

They aren't very good and are a weak choice. Yes S5 and potentially BS5 is good and having 2 full fire warrior squad rapid firing anything with ML bonuses is a lot of death.

But they are paper thin in CC 2 scouts would most likely wipe out a 12 man squad in 1 turn. You've also missed the obvious troops choice that pumps out 3 S5 shots at BS4 a turn each Tyranid warriors! And they're tasty in combat! Same armour better toughness for points same wounds, shots.

Sorry compare a FW with a sister:

same shooting (one BS3 S5, The other BS4 S4).
Far better CC from the sisters.
Far better armour given the prevalence of cover saves.
ML vs Faith Points? Faith points win by miles.
They can take special weapons
They can be lead by someone that can take CC weapons.

All that for 1 point? Still think the FWs are good?

Kveldulv wrote:
And yes, I can't name a worse unit than Aun'va, so the "worst unit in the game"-discourse is no longer as interesting as "the worst unit in each codex". And let me throw a torch in here: Every time the SW player I regularly meet field Bjørn The Fellhanded all he gets is hassle. Bjørn gets shot up first, and with some luck SW will spend the rest of the game trying not to loose an objective.

Ive fieldied Bjorn quite a few times, and I won 2 tournaments with him in the list. Used correctly he is a huge boon for the entire army.

One game he tied up Gazzy for 4 rounds of combat, he didnt die, and gazzy was made useless, allowing the rest of my army to wreck some orks. Win!
Another game I lined him up to get shot to pieces vs guard, and used him as an extra objective on my side of the board, forcing the guard player to come to me, Win!
Yet another game I had him stomp through a bunch of defielers, get killed by a prince, then making my army fearless helped to keep some scouts in the correct table corner to contest, Win!

how can you not like an AV13, 5++ invul save, venerable walker that gives you the opprotunity to place an extra objective on the table or make your army fearless if he dies? field him with a saga of the iron wolf, 3 servitor, 4 cyberwolf Iron Priest in a land raider redeemer, and you have a wall of hard-to-kill auto-repairing awesome.

People always fail to consider the old DE codex for some worthless gems. Scourges, for example, are a poor choice to begin with, and the fact that they take slots from ravagers is an even greater crime. Hellions, as mentioned earlier, are also a pitiful and extremely expensive unit.

Still, the Space Pope is tough to beat.

Etherials in general never made much sense as an HQ choice. If they are the spiritual leaders of the Tau people why would they be hanging out on the front lines anyway? It makes sense with Marine Chaplains or Farseers because they actually are also really scary in combat. The main purpose of including an Etherial is for it to die and piss off your troops.

Huh?

More importantly, why would the Space Pope, the most important etherial, show up in combat?

Its a wonder the Tau Empire is expanding.

Hopefully he will be torn to pieces by grots and Chaos Spawn.

It's true, I can't think of anything that beats the Space Pope. Everything about him is made of lose.

Demogerg wrote:

Kveldulv wrote:
And yes, I can't name a worse unit than Aun'va, so the "worst unit in the game"-discourse is no longer as interesting as "the worst unit in each codex". And let me throw a torch in here: Every time the SW player I regularly meet field Bjørn The Fellhanded all he gets is hassle. Bjørn gets shot up first, and with some luck SW will spend the rest of the game trying not to loose an objective.

Ive fieldied Bjorn quite a few times, and I won 2 tournaments with him in the list. Used correctly he is a huge boon for the entire army.

One game he tied up Gazzy for 4 rounds of combat, he didnt die, and gazzy was made useless, allowing the rest of my army to wreck some orks. Win!
Another game I lined him up to get shot to pieces vs guard, and used him as an extra objective on my side of the board, forcing the guard player to come to me, Win!
Yet another game I had him stomp through a bunch of defielers, get killed by a prince, then making my army fearless helped to keep some scouts in the correct table corner to contest, Win!

how can you not like an AV13, 5++ invul save, venerable walker that gives you the opprotunity to place an extra objective on the table or make your army fearless if he dies? field him with a saga of the iron wolf, 3 servitor, 4 cyberwolf Iron Priest in a land raider redeemer, and you have a wall of hard-to-kill auto-repairing awesome.

The other day Bjorn and his Ven Dread buddy took out Ghaz and 8 meganobz (although they came in waves of 4) =[ I realized, post-humously, that charging in with the Meganobz wasn't the best idea, should have left the job to Ghaz. Of course, Ghaz missing all 5 attacks on the second turn didn't help

Always hit on a 3 is pretty annoying!

FlingitNow wrote:
Sorry compare a FW with a sister:

same shooting (one BS3 S5, The other BS4 S4).
Far better CC from the sisters.
Far better armour given the prevalence of cover saves.
ML vs Faith Points? Faith points win by miles.
They can take special weapons
They can be lead by someone that can take CC weapons.

All that for 1 point? Still think the FWs are good?

fair nuff

All rolls using random.org

Starting 36 inches away

Sisters turn 1 move six inches, run 2 inchs now @ 28 inches

Tau turn 1, 5 shots hitting on 4+s using ( 4 2 1 5 1) Wounding on 2+ (6 3) 2 wounds. 3+armor save (1 2) 2 dead.

Sisters leadership test for casualties (4 4) 8 so I believe they pass (cant remember the codex and cant access PDFs from work comp, inculding on GW site)

Sisters turn 2, move 6 inches run ( 6 ) inches now at 16 inches

Tau Turn two, Move 4 inches, fire rapid fire. 10 shots at 4+ to hit (5 6 6 6 4 2 5 1 3 3) so six hits, wounding on 2+ (3 4 3 5 1 5) Sisters get their 3+ save (2 2 4 6 4) down 2 1 member.

LD test (6 3) 9, Im pretty sure this breaks them. So they retreat 2d6 inches, and are below 50% (3 3) 6 inches, now at 18 inch range.

Assuming they have some ATSKNF or To the Last man Type rule (again, no pdfs atm, I recall them having something like that) they take their regroup roll (6 4) 10 ((ok, that was pretty gakky "luck" for the sisters I guess) so they fail and continue running (6 2) 8 inches. (at 26inch range)

Tau turn 3 firing 5 shots at 4+ again (1 2 1 2 5) ((Sucky shot)) wounding on 2+ (2) (O wow) 3+ save (2)

So sisters saved a total of 3 of 8 wounds ( Very bad luck on their end, as they should have saved at least 5) However the tau player took 20 shots and only hit with 7 (again, statistically they should have scored 10 hits and at least 8 wounds). The two run rolls were total 8 (so average 4+ statistically normal) the total leadership rolled was 27/3 tests, so a bit more then stat av. but the fallback distance of 14/2 tests was a bit less. So all in all, this is fairly stat av.

Firewarriors 5

Sisters 0

Still think SoB are much better then FWs?

I did however forget that Warriors were troops. Again, Its not like I'm typing this from my FLGS

Str 5 glances Rhino front/side armor, glaces Pred/Vindicator side av, Pens Land speeders, Pens Chimera/basilisk side, Pens Warwalkers, Pens most Ork AV, pens Raiders on all sides, Ravager's rear, glancing front and side, pens Sentinels. 2+ to wound.... All eldar infantry, All darkeldar infantry, All WhichHunters Infantry (unless taking SMs), All Imp Gaurd Infantry (but ogryns), All Tau infantry (but Crisis suits and Vespid), Nid's gaunts and gargoyles, Necrons, Orks, Nid (infantry not Monsterous creatures) and Marines will, for the most part, be 3+ to wound. Again, 55(not +55) points for something can at least glance over 60% of all vehicles and literally wound EVERY model(with T) in the game up to 10 times (5 at 30 inches) is not what I would call, "The worst Unit in 40K". Did I also mention they were scoring?

But a bit more on topic, As far as scourges are concerned, I see nothing wrong with 16 Str 4 ap5 shots@24 inchs at BS 4 with a 12 inch move, deepstrikeable. Hellions however, bleh!

Your armor save means nothing when I'm dropping 20+ wounds on a 10-or-less strong unit.

I've always found warhammer 40k to be a very glass cannon friendly game. Even if you are piercing my armor and 2x toughing me, if you only have 3 shots a turn vs my 20+, you are going to lose. Remember, the BEST chance you have is 1 in 6...(unless you have FnP, but then again, different story)

I good trick I saw for using Etherials was for ninja tau style armies. Most of your army stays off the board except for your commander and the etherial.
Turn one Tau, Commander hides. Etherial raises his stick thing, and runs screaming at the foe.
Turn one Enemy: Look askance at each other, then gun down etherial. Commander passes Ld10, and entire tau army becomes fearless and furious charge or whatever.
Turn 2: Buffed tau start showing up.

Sort of a wierd upgrade, but pretty funny, and might work well with aggro kroot popping in off the flanks.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
Dark Eldar - Hellions, they are an assault unit with a rapid fire gun! Expensive, fragile, crap at what they are meant to do and competing with better units in that slot.

Pretty exhaustive list, but for DE, you need to include Scourges, as well. I mean, they're a 20+ point model with S/T 3 and a 5+ save. So, they decide to give jump packs to a unit that carries heavy weapons that cost twice as much as that same heavy weapon costs in a Troop squad. For the cost of a minimum sized unit (5) of Scourges with 4 dark lances, I can almost afford two different Troop units totaling 20 models with the same number of dark lances.

Also, if we're going to include special character's in the mix, the Decapitator sucks pretty hard, too. It costs 112 points for a T3 model with 4 S3 power weapon attacks and has a 5+ save. An assault unit that will hit most units, kill two, and then immediately die to return attacks from just about anything.

It doesn't even have a model.

Demogerg wrote:

Kveldulv wrote:
And yes, I can't name a worse unit than Aun'va, so the "worst unit in the game"-discourse is no longer as interesting as "the worst unit in each codex". And let me throw a torch in here: Every time the SW player I regularly meet field Bjørn The Fellhanded all he gets is hassle. Bjørn gets shot up first, and with some luck SW will spend the rest of the game trying not to loose an objective.

Ive fieldied Bjorn quite a few times, and I won 2 tournaments with him in the list. Used correctly he is a huge boon for the entire army.

One game he tied up Gazzy for 4 rounds of combat, he didnt die, and gazzy was made useless, allowing the rest of my army to wreck some orks. Win!
Another game I lined him up to get shot to pieces vs guard, and used him as an extra objective on my side of the board, forcing the guard player to come to me, Win!
Yet another game I had him stomp through a bunch of defielers, get killed by a prince, then making my army fearless helped to keep some scouts in the correct table corner to contest, Win!

how can you not like an AV13, 5++ invul save, venerable walker that gives you the opprotunity to place an extra objective on the table or make your army fearless if he dies? field him with a saga of the iron wolf, 3 servitor, 4 cyberwolf Iron Priest in a land raider redeemer, and you have a wall of hard-to-kill auto-repairing awesome.

Hm, you've actually gone and got me convinced. Must be because you're smarter in using him than we are! But I wouldn't charge him with Ghaz... How would you use Bjørn against a kan wall? Cheap DCCW atcha!

grots rock my world

1) they soak up fire for some reason, i took them for a laugh when i first got them and the guy i was playing took 3 turns to shoot them all! meanwhile my green tide slowly gets within assault range.

2) plonk them on an objective and go to ground that gives them 3+ cover save (or is it 4+) either is good for them. then leave them ther all game.

3) they make me smile therefore i wouldn't call them the worst unit by a long stretch

I don't know about those bashing the options in the CSM codex.
Possessed/Spawn have done wonderful in the games I've had. Maybe your expectations are too high, maybe you just don't use them.../shrug, either case, they are alot more functional than some of the other options suggested here.

I will second the Space Pope and his lesser ranked dudes.

I am surprised no one has nominated Nork. Most people who I talk to claim he is the most damaging unit you could put in your army if you want to run multiple command squads. How does the quote go "let him shoot a battle cannon out of each eye and then he is worth it". He competes with the space pope as you have a close combat monster with a short ranged gun in a unit you want to keep out of cc to keep issuing orders (most of the time).

Space pope is most certainly useless its just a contest of how much. Space pope gives you stubborn which is useful against anti leadership armies (pyker battle squad anyone) and can give everyone preferred enemy which can be a repelant to charging, as opposed to you charging.

Still think SoB are much better then FWs?

Yes they are miles better with your 2 sisters dieing in turn 1 and them charging across open ground on foot at firewarriors....

Had the sisters not taken a casualty in that first turn (which is 47% chance) they'd have just stood there and out shot you. Even if only 1 died they'd still be favourite to out shoot you:

5 x 1/2 x 5/6 x 1/3 = 0.69 deaths per turn

4 x 2/3 x2/3 x 1/2 = 0.89 deaths per turn

So your example was dumb overly simplistic hugely lucky for the tau on that crucial first turn shooting and then having the Sisters be stupid.

Still think FWs are great?


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Space pope gives you stubborn which is useful against anti leadership armies (pyker battle squad anyone) and can give everyone preferred enemy which can be a repelant to charging, as opposed to you charging.

I tyake it you've never used Tau neither of these effects is beneficial to the army. The stubborn rule is damaging you want your FW to flee from combat as much as possible Stubborn reduces that and puts you in a world of trouble when the enemy does get to assault you as it is now game over as one of his units is in combat you never get to shoot it again because your stubborn soldiers are staying in combat for your turn.

Making the whole Tau army stubborn is about the most damaging thing you could do to the army! I'd rather use an acroos the board BS2 army than a stubborn army!

preferred enemy discourages people from charging you? That is a joke right? Oh no that S3 FW have preferred enemy and I2 I better not charge him I'll just stand here and let him assault me...

Yeah that happens a lot, it is a very common thing. I am forever charging unit of genestealers with my firewarriors. I mean there is almost no point rolling the dice my FW are so certain to win if they have prefered enemy right?

people wrote:Fire Warrior VS Sisters of Battle Squads

Everyone is making too many asumptions in this fight, if the firewarriors are really just standing there shooting at sisters, then the firewarriors are getting shot at with exorcist tanks (and the sisters are probably being fried by crisis suits and hammerheads)

A friend of mine hates to assume things, so lets magically assume a SoB squad and a FW squad were teleported into rapid fire range and have a shooting war.

10 FW hit on 4s but wound on 2s (about 8 wounds)

10 SoB hit on 3s and wound on 3s (close to 9 wounds but probably 8)

However, the sisters can rely on their armor to save probably 4-6 of those hits, the firewarriors will at best save 4-5 wounds, and their damage potential (IE: the maximum ammount of wounds they can cause), is actually different, because sisters have access to flamethrowers, which have a chance to deal far more wounds, firewarriors have no special weapons.

While mentioning special characters that suck can I nominate Kaptin Badrukk? 135 points for basically the same stat line as a nob except he gets one more point of WS, which considering he is suppose to be a shooty boss means that its only partially useful. He has no power weapons so assaulting would be stupid anyway. His gun is pretty decent, str7 and ap2 assault 3. Combine that though with his BS of 2 and only one of those shots is probably gonna hit.

I don't see why (considering that he is a special character) that they couldn't have given him BS 3 instead of increasing his WS which is pointless. In the end he is a waste of points and provides no more use than what you can get out of a regular mob of shooty boyz.

FlingitNow wrote:So your example was dumb overly simplistic hugely lucky for the tau on that crucial first turn shooting and then having the Sisters be stupid.

+1
And horay for him not paying attantion to squad size either.

This time done smartly (and with averages):

11 FW vs 10 SOB (can't remember if they have to take a sister superior but they don't have one).

SOB move and run to around 26" away (starting 35" maximum)

FW's shoot, 5.5 hits, 4.5833333333... wounds. 1 1/2 die.

SOB move into range (but not move and rapid fire range)

1.5 die again.

7 return fire getting (likely gaining rending due to faith)
Without faith: 4.666.... hits, 3.1111.... wounds, 1.5 die
With faith: 4.66666.... hits ,0.777... rends + 2.3333.... wounds, 2 die

9 return fire netting 4.5 hits, 3.75 wounds, 1.25 die.

6 return fire (now without rending most likely). 4 hits, 2.666.... wounds, 1.333... dead.

7 return fire (4.444.... dead). 3.5 hits, 2.916666666..... wounds 1 dead.

5 return fire. 3.333.... hits, 2.2222 wounds and 1.1111... save (so 2 die because of rounding up), Fire warriors most likely pass Ld test with 5 left.

5 return fire. 2.5 hits, 2.083333.... wounds, .7 dies.

4 return fire. 2.666... hits, 1.777.... wounds, 0.8888... die (none due to rounding down at .4444.... of a death).

5 return fire and kill .7 but due to rounding down none die.

4 return fire and deal .888... killing one

4 return fire. 2 hits, 1.6666.... wounds. 0.5555.... fails and kill one (pass ld check)

3 return fire and get 2 hits, 1.333 wounds and .6666 kills (getting one).

SOB then whittle the FW down to oblivion.

And that was only using 1 act of faith. If they ran straight at the fire warriors they'd take 4.5 casualty's before rapid fire range then kill 1 with rapid fire (without faith). lose 2.7777.... more before charging and easily annihalating the fire warriors so yes they do suck but us tau players know what we have and would never leave a fire warrior squad alone (and rarely outside of a devilfish) without support for that kind of pro-longed firefight.

As for destroying tanks SOB with bolters can glance AV13 with Acts of faith (it may just just give them better AP, I'll check soon).

Also it is highly likely the SOB would be in a rhino/Immolator/Chimera so the Fire warriors would be even more easily annihalated (Immolator/Chimera would do it single handedly)

Kveldulv wrote:

Hm, you've actually gone and got me convinced. Must be because you're smarter in using him than we are! But I wouldn't charge him with Ghaz... How would you use Bjørn against a kan wall? Cheap DCCW atcha!

Kan wall? Long Fangs.

I tend to use Bjorn with an iron-priest filled land raider as a screen for a rhino with Njal Stormcaller in it. drive up to the center field and let loose with Murderous Hurricane/Jaws of the World Wolf and Chain Lightning
D6 S8 hits on each unit of kans will wreck a good number of them me thinks.

n0t_u wrote:Pyrovores?

What is bad about: A S5 flamer template, power weapon CC attacks, a Tyranid that doesn't need Synapse for ANYTHING, and that can be spore dropped right next to the enemy.

Mattlov wrote:and that can be spore dropped right next to the enemy.

....he can? He's a bit like a dreadnought then (only he dosn't have a multi-melta) Most people looked at the elites in the new bug codex and went OMG! Hive Guard and Zoanthropes and stopped reading.