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Yad wrote:

Kurgash wrote:I've proposed this to several GT players at my FLGS, they say simply move 12" because deepstriking is a type of selection for deployment instead of simply moving. As much as the idea people are putting is sound, to deepstrike you choose that option via deployment. Deployment happens before movement phase so I don't see how people are saying movement phase allows them to deepstrike?

Hmm, that doesn't pass the sniff test. This would be like saying that because I choose to hold my Genestealers in reserve to Outflank ('deployment selection'), they don't count as moving when they arrive? Yes deployment happens before the movement phase. Yes you choose how your particular units are going to deploy. After that's done though, the game begins with the Movement phase. Everything after that happens in the regular phases (i.e., arriving from Deep Strike is Movement).

-Yad

really? I've faced many Nid players with outflankers and they always moved them after they outflanked them...

And yes, I see your point Yakface. Makes better sense.

FlingitNow wrote:

My rulebook has a list of movements for JI but says at the end all JI units may deepstrike, does move like overide this specific wording?

It also say JI fall back 3d6" just after that which is identical wording. But guess what as both DS and Fallback are types of movement then anything that moves as JI, moves as JI...

I would not question at all deep strike is movement.

My question is does a move like something mean the JI UNITS only bit of the text get used as well.

It seems strange to me that it has a section for JI where it lists all the abilities then ends with a specific JI UNITS only text.

If move as makes you a JI unit, then you can do it and if not then you cannot.

Thats just how I read it and have played it and everyone I play with plays it the same way, so a hell of a lot of us have been playing it wrong!

xebabb wrote:

I would not question at all deep strike is movement.

My question is does a move like something mean the JI UNITS only bit of the text get used as well.

It seems strange to me that it has a section for JI where it lists all the abilities then ends with a specific JI UNITS only text.

If move as makes you a JI unit, then you can do it and if not then you cannot.

Thats just how I read it and have played it and everyone I play with plays it the same way, so a hell of a lot of us have been playing it wrong!

Because all of the rules in the Jump Infantry section tend to refer to how individual Jump Infantry models move. The rules are written this way because they need to be. For example, if a Jump Infantry MODEL moves into terrain, it (and only it) takes a dangerous terrain test.

On the other hand, Individual models don't deep strike, units do, so the rule is written pertaining to Jump Infantry UNITS.

Regardless, it is still a rule for Jump Infantry in the MOVEMENT section of their rules.

Kurgash wrote:really? I've faced many Nid players with outflankers and they always moved them after they outflanked them...

Then you've played many Nid players who were playing it wrong.

Arriving via Outflank simply changes the board edge that you move on from. Otherwise, it works the same as arriving from Reserve: you move on as if the model had been sitting just off the board.

Arriving from Reserve is your movement for the turn.

I would not question at all deep strike is movement.

My question is does a move like something mean the JI UNITS only bit of the text get used as well.

It seems strange to me that it has a section for JI where it lists all the abilities then ends with a specific JI UNITS only text.

If move as makes you a JI unit, then you can do it and if not then you cannot.

Thats just how I read it and have played it and everyone I play with plays it the same way, so a hell of a lot of us have been playing it wrong!

So you accept that DS is moving but still think that things that move like JI can't DS because the wording is

"All jump infantry units may enter the battle by 'deep strike', as explain on page 95.

No mention of only in there at all. Also how is this wording different to:

"Jump infantry fall back 3d6",..."

Why are you saying because jump infantry can do this moves like jump infantry can't for one sentence but not for another? This just seems like people trying to read something that is never there. The answer is obvious from Yakfaces point 1) on the previous page.

I really can't see how you can except

a) Wings allows you to move like hjump infantry,
b) Jump infnatry can deep strike,
c) Deep strike is movement

And not conclude wings means you can deep strike? This just makes no logical sense at all.

Because Deep Striking is not movement. It just counts as movement.

Because Deep Striking is not movement. It just counts as movement.

So why is deep striking refered to as movement in the BRB? Are we supposed to just ignore that?

"In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move further" pg 95 paragraph 5

"they are too disrupted by their deep strike move" pg95 paragraph 7

Or are we supposed to over look that it occurs in the movement phase? And that in the section pertaining to JI movement you find that they can deep strike.

So if it is not movement please explain why:

It is refered to has movement at least twice on page 95?

The fact that JI can deep strike is under the heading for movement not something else (deployment perhaps)?

It counts as movement... Seriously Gwar how can you expect anyone to take you serious when you post stuff like that?

G

Gwar is so often right, when he does rarely veer off course he veers with tremendous enthusiasm and vigor.


If one takes the phrase from the deep strike rules on pg 95 "obviously count as having moved in the previous Movement phase" to mean that deeps strike counts as movement then....

One should take the following quote from the same pg "they are too disrupted from their deep strike move" to mean that deep strike is movement.

Counts as having moved = counts as movement.

deepstrike move = deepstrike movement



Then of course there is the other quote on that page "these units may not move any further". This would certainly seem to clearly indicate that the deep striking unit has moved; is there any other possible interpretation of this line?



Saying that deep striking is not movement but counts as movement just doesnt seem to have any basis in reality.....



Sliggoth

Gwar! wrote:Because Deep Striking is not movement. It just counts as movement.

um...umm...ok

I think there needs to be a university study that may link internet time to stuff like this. J/k

still...

If this means my demon prince w/ wings and with LoS can deep strike 6" off my rhino and lash things.... I'm all for it

There really should be a FAQ written for this sort of thing -_-

FlingitNow wrote:

I would not question at all deep strike is movement.

My question is does a move like something mean the JI UNITS only bit of the text get used as well.

It seems strange to me that it has a section for JI where it lists all the abilities then ends with a specific JI UNITS only text.

If move as makes you a JI unit, then you can do it and if not then you cannot.

Thats just how I read it and have played it and everyone I play with plays it the same way, so a hell of a lot of us have been playing it wrong!

So you accept that DS is moving but still think that things that move like JI can't DS because the wording is

"All jump infantry units may enter the battle by 'deep strike', as explain on page 95.

No mention of only in there at all. Also how is this wording different to:

"Jump infantry fall back 3d6",..."

Why are you saying because jump infantry can do this moves like jump infantry can't for one sentence but not for another? This just seems like people trying to read something that is never there. The answer is obvious from Yakfaces point 1) on the previous page.

I really can't see how you can except

a) Wings allows you to move like hjump infantry,
b) Jump infnatry can deep strike,
c) Deep strike is movement

And not conclude wings means you can deep strike? This just makes no logical sense at all.

In all honesty nobody here plays it as wings have deep strike abilities (some demons do) and I have travelled quite a bit in search of a game. I am not going to try and change how everyone plays but if it comes out we are all wrong so be it.