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Clthomps wrote:Your quote got messed up. But in response Catwoman was a throwback to the 1970s Batman with Eartha Kit.
As for the New Karate Kid wasn't the Hero a White Woman?
I mean, the 2010 Karate Kid which stars a young black male.
Eartha Kitt was the second Catwoman replacing the very white Julie Newmar (and acting in a role long defined as a white female Selina Kyle)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 03:50:16
It seems to me that the position of Racebending, et al., is disingenuous at several levels. First, it's almost as if people are (pretending to be) surprised that white children were cast in the lead roles for a general audience children's movie in the US. Second, there is an unfounded logical leap between having an Asian-inspired setting and the dictate that all the characters must be ethnically Asian. (Also, in what sense must the inhabitants of an imaginary world be of a real world ethnicity, however defined?) Third, if we were to follow that logic then the entire cast, with the exception of a single character, would be East Asian. This would not be about "people of colorS" at all. Fourth, the connection between "yellow face" (and seemingly unspoken connection between the more ominous black face minstrelsy) and the casting of this movie is assumed with cavalier righteousness when no actual connection has been shown to exist. For these reasons, I find that the Racebending movement itself is offensive.
Manchu wrote:It seems to me that the position of Racebending, et al., is disingenuous at several levels. First, it's almost as if people are (pretending to be) surprised that white children were cast in the lead roles for a general audience children's movie in the US.
I don't have a lot of time for Racebending, as much of their stuff is hyperbole, and loaded with so much student activism that I just want to punch them. But at their core they do have something of a point, and that point is to combat the idea that US media should have white leads.
That idea is wrong because no country, no ethnic group, needs to have leads purely of their own ethnic persuasion. Majority ethnic groups have been consistantly receptive of minority leads in mainstream productions - it isn't as though Will Smith is struggling for box office pull. When you spend all day surrounded by other members of the majority population, when the halls of government and corporate boards are almost exclusively white then seeing a minority in the lead just isn't that threatening.
Whereas a member of a minority could gain a lot from seeing someone like him in a lead role - afterall, that minority likely isn't surrounded by similar faces all day, and doesn't see people like him in powerful positions in government and business.
And in the specific case of the US it is wrong because the US is ethnically diverse. While the power structure is still largely white, the demographics are not, and are becoming less white by the day.
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Clthomps wrote:
sebster wrote:I wonder if it's simply a lot easier to get Norse looking extras than it is to get Inuit extras.
They actually found all Inuit Extras to fill the roll as extras.
That was my original argument in defense of the movie, but then I saw the actual casting call. (the link to which was posted earlier)
Oh, I was going on your earlier statement that the Waterbending tribe was changed from Inuit to Norse. If they've filled the supporting cast with Inuit but cast white kids in the leads, that's pretty weak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 04:19:25
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I think you have the generally correct idea. But I also think that the racial situation in the US is not really white people versus everyone else. This kind of thinking ignores the strong "inter-minority" tensions and ignorance. As long as the "white power structure" (which is not fictitious but it certainly does not live up to what certain undergraduate movements make of it, either) is said to have the responsibility and is counted upon to sort out these tensions and failures, there will remain a white power structure. Non-US residents have a tendancy to buy the bs we've sold about everyone accepting Martin Luther King's, Jr, ideas about race relations--i.e., simple integration will resolve all issues. The truth is a lot more complicated. As an Aussie, I recognize that your country has its own special problems regarding race and I would not presume to speak authoritatively about them.
Manchu wrote:More diversity in the media for the sake of more diversity in the media is a best amoral and at worst demeaning. Consider the idea that HK films should reconsider casting Asian actors, especially in any scene that involved ANY kind of Western material culture, to better reflect their cosmopolitan history and society.
HK action films typically show white people in roles that are filled in by non-white groups in Hollywood productions. The villain is often white, or if a white character is to be included among the heroes he'll typically display stereotypical characteristics such as an exaggerated American accent. Like Asian characters in Hollywood productions, the stereotypes employed are often complimentary but employed in such a way as to be patronising.
Both Hollywood and HK have made decent progress in moving past this - neither is anywhere near as bad as it was in the 70s and 80s.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Yeah, I've noticed. But the point I was making is more along the lines of material culture not necessarily aligning with ethnicity in entertainment even in diverse societies.
Manchu wrote:I think you have the generally correct idea. But I also think that the racial situation in the US is not really white people versus everyone else. This kind of thinking ignores the strong "inter-minority" tensions and ignorance.
True, and a very good point. Like all emotive but complex situations, there is a tendency towards over-simplication.
As long as the "white power structure" (which is not fictitious but it certainly does not live up to what certain undergraduate movements make of it, either)
Yeah, that's true, and a really good way of putting it.
is said to have the responsibility and is counted upon to sort out these tensions and failures, there will remain a white power structure. Non-US residents have a tendancy to buy the bs we've sold about everyone accepting Martin Luther King's, Jr, ideas about race relations--i.e., simple integration will resolve all issues. The truth is a lot more complicated. As an Aussie, I recognize that your country has its own special problems regarding race and I would not presume to speak authoritatively about them.
I think the problems in general is universal - how to achieve equality of access to opportunities without removing cultural diversity. The specifics differ from country to country as do the possible solutions, though.
I know from following the debate in Australia that there are real problems, but there is also genunie political will from all ethnic groups to solve the issue. As a result I tend to get annoyed by two lines of argument - those that deny the problem exists and those that claim the problem is entirely due to white selfishness.
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Manchu wrote:Yeah, I've noticed. But the point I was making is more along the lines of material culture not necessarily aligning with ethnicity in entertainment even in diverse societies.
Yeah, I think the idea is that a film doesn't have to be exactly evenly white, black, asian, hispanic and whatever else, but when you include minorities at least make an effort not to stick them in the role of the villain yet again. And try to make them full characters, don't just rely on old stereotypes.
Even if the creators don't care about racial politics, avoiding the above is just good story telling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 04:46:18
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:how to achieve equality of access to opportunities without removing cultural diversity
That's it exactly. The answer can't be sameness if diversity is a real value, which it is. This is why simple integration produces so many imagined hypocrisies, of which this Racebending absurdity is one.
There are 3 movie remakes you guys have missed that have replaced a white actor with a black actor the nutty professor, D.R. Doolittle I had the other one but lost it
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' and not even bothering to take names. 2nd company 3rd company ravenguard House Navaros Forge world Lucious & Titan legion void runners 314th pie guard warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. Raised to acolyte of the children of the church of turtle pie by chaplain shrike 3/06/09 Help stop thread necro do not post in a thread more than a month old. "Dakkanaut" not "Dakkaite" Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie To become a member pm me or another member of the Church
sonofruss wrote:There are 3 movie remakes you guys have missed that have replaced a white actor with a black actor the nutty professor, D.R. Doolittle I had the other one but lost it
Those are examples of completely remaking a movie for a black demographic (which I also feel is wrong). Another example would be Airplane Vs Soulplane
Clthomps wrote:Those are examples of completely remaking a movie for a black demographic (which I also feel is wrong). Another example would be Airplane Vs Soulplane
Putting Eddie Murphy in the lead role is remaking a film for a black demographic?
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I don't know about that the nutty professor with Eddie Murphy was 10 times better than the original and I thought how they changed D.R. Doolittle was genius
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' and not even bothering to take names. 2nd company 3rd company ravenguard House Navaros Forge world Lucious & Titan legion void runners 314th pie guard warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. Raised to acolyte of the children of the church of turtle pie by chaplain shrike 3/06/09 Help stop thread necro do not post in a thread more than a month old. "Dakkanaut" not "Dakkaite" Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie To become a member pm me or another member of the Church
Just for interest's sake, there's a bio-pic of Alexandre Dumas about to be released in French cinemas, about Dumas' role with his collaborator/ghost writer. In this film, Dumas is being played by Gerard Depardieu, despite Dumas being half black. Having a white dude play a half black dude isn't good, but Depardieu is a star with a solid record, and he does fit the role of Dumas as a larger than life, charismatic man.
Except that race was an important element in Dumas' life, and it was all around the ghost writer contraversy. The French version of the n-word, negre, is the same as the word for ghostwriter because of this historical contraversy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 09:45:08
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
This has gone way ot but as to movies does any one know a white guy who could have played King Pin as well as him ?
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' and not even bothering to take names. 2nd company 3rd company ravenguard House Navaros Forge world Lucious & Titan legion void runners 314th pie guard warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. Raised to acolyte of the children of the church of turtle pie by chaplain shrike 3/06/09 Help stop thread necro do not post in a thread more than a month old. "Dakkanaut" not "Dakkaite" Join the Church of the Children of Turtle Pie To become a member pm me or another member of the Church
BTW the trailer was supposed to be released for the first time during the Superbowl. Well, has anyone noticed that it was shown during the Pre-Game show??? They may have not gotten the viewership they needed. Also, a guy named Jeff Palmer is posting updates on Youtube for the movie and he had access to the trailer on the Friday before the Superbowl which he posted.
I'm hesitant about this film since M. Night Shyamalan's career is loaded with hit or miss stuff and I never really got into the Airbender franchise.
As for racebending or whatever; kind of interesting since the director, writer, and producer is himself Indian. That doesn't mean he can't be accused or 'guilty' of such - just somewhat interesting.
Gitkikka wrote:I'm really not up on Marvel characters, but I remember Nick Fury as being white once.
And Billy Dee williams as Harvey Dent - but that character was changed back to white later.
Yes, Nick Fury is white in the regular Marvel universe. In the Ultimate Universe however he does look like Sam Jackson, which was the whole reason he got the part in Iron Man. So, yeah, in the comics, they made a white character afro-american. So there you go.
Harvey Dent is supposed to be caucasian. Makes a better contrast for his "other half". Also, I don't think the people behind Batman 1 thought about any future installements, since it was actually the animated series which helped making Two-Face the character he is today.
Well I hope uncle Iroh turns out well, all the other characters are extras IMO. It should have been called "Uncle Iroh's adventures with the Avatar, the last airbender"
Logan's Great Company Oh yeah kickin' 
and not even bothering to take names. 
2nd company 
3rd company ravenguard 
House Navaros 
314th pie guard 
warboss 'ed krunchas waaaaaargh This thred needs more cow bell. 
- 3000 pts 
Also, I don't think the people behind Batman 1 thought about any future installements, since it was actually the animated series which helped making Two-Face the character he is today.
