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Kanluwen wrote:It also doesn't help anything 'storming offices' after someone hangs a noose.

But as it stands, it seems the bigger the rabble rousing here in the states, the more likely you are to get anything done.

When it comes to paying ten of thousands of dollars to study and do homework; yes it does help to go straight to "the man" and get things like nooses out of the library and to provide a safe and friendly campus environment. That kind of "rabbling" is pretty appropriate and deserved; its the office people's job to provide such an environment.

Albatross wrote:

sebster wrote:But then I'm one of those guys that likes the idea of university teaching kids to think, not just teaching them a job.

Oh, this 100%.

And if this is the case, then it follows that we should teach young people not to hate each other based on the colour of their skin. And for the people parotting the phrase 'white guilt' - just knock it off, it's not 'white guilt' to be careful not to offend racial minorities. Some people just seem to use that term to excuse their frankly questionable views.

Agreed. No real reason for people to feel 'white guilt' under this article's circumstances; or that 'white guilt' somehow excuses the racist actions involved.

Albatross wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Actually I find that some people take not offending minorities to such a patronizing level that it is, in it's own elitist way, racist.

I will enjoy your explanation as to how that is elitist. And how you can patronise someone without offending them.

Also, if you wouldn't mind, please provide examples of people being racist by not offending a member of an ethnic minority.

Paternalistic Racism: This type of racism refers to the process whereby the freedom of black people is defined or restricted by generally well- intentioned regulations that are drawn up by whites....It differs in two ways from institutional racism. First, it involves the initiation of new practices and procedures in response to the presence of racial minorities in the country, whereas institutional racism involves the failure to adapt long-standing practices and procedures to new needs. Secondly, it involves a more clear- cut wielding of power by white people, whereas it was argued above that in institutional racism it is a mistake to oversimplify the power that any individuals can wield in established institutions. Paternalistic racism implies that white people have the right to interfere in the lives of blacks for their own good and the power to define that good.

That's how.

If you don't see examples of this every day in American advertising and politics you aren't looking very hard.

Riiiight. So because you're President isn't black (apart from the current one) anything he does, because it's not pandering to a minority, is inherently racist.

And demanding special treatment isn't racist because?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Riiiight. So because you're President isn't black (apart from the current one) anything he does, because it's not pandering to a minority, is inherently racist.

And demanding special treatment isn't racist because?

I don't understand the last part.

But I wasn't saying every white person in charge is racist. That's such a leap from what I said...

I was only pointing out that it is possible to be racist in a patronizing way, that's all.

I'm firmly in the "racism is bad" camp too, by the way. Let's not get carried away here. I'm just pointing out that going to far into the politically correct direction can reach a patronizing level.

Cane wrote:That generalization does hold true but not so much here. The protesters definitely had stuff worth getting resolved since the campus had a streak of racist bs going on such as the noose, that party, and the campus/student-sponsored media outlet that supported the party and then took a gak on and discriminated against the rightly offended black students.

Those kind of asshats that are more than willing to stir up racist bs and commit hate crimes deserve administrative and legal consequences.

It's all trivial except the noose. Even then storming the admin building is ridiculous. Then using the event to create demands, not about investigating the crime and increased security, but in order to influence the curriculum?

It's just student politics through and through. No matter what happens you launch a protest/storm the admin building and then start talking about your same old special issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:And if this is the case, then it follows that we should teach young people not to hate each other based on the colour of their skin. And for the people parotting the phrase 'white guilt' - just knock it off, it's not 'white guilt' to be careful not to offend racial minorities. Some people just seem to use that term to excuse their frankly questionable views.

Yeah, a lot of people are quite strongly committed to ‘not getting it’ and they use phrases like ‘white guilt’ to help them not get it.

It just isn’t that hard to get. If your group has a majority hold on power, you should try to understand that that majority group can exclude other groups, either actively or passively. From there you should take whatever practical are available measures to reduce that exclusion.

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

er wait....

Non-lethal tear gas.......

Er wait...

K-9 support units....

Damnit!

Nerf Arrows and Twizzle sticks!

In all reality, I feel that this was a huge over-reaction on the part of the students. Hell, somebody spraypainted "Die Whitey" a couple of summers ago on the local campus, and nobody threw a fit over it much less threw a small riot. We just painted over it and moved on.

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

Monster Rain wrote:If you don't see examples of this every day in American advertising and politics you aren't looking very hard.

Obviously not. Perhaps you could provide some examples? I'm happy to pretend that 'paternalistic racism' of the type you mentioned is remotely related to this news story.

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

er wait....

Non-lethal tear gas.......

Er wait...

K-9 support units....

Damnit!

Nerf Arrows and Twizzle sticks!

In all reality, I feel that this was a huge over-reaction on the part of the students. Hell, somebody spraypainted "Die Whitey" a couple of summers ago on the local campus, and nobody threw a fit over it much less threw a small riot. We just painted over it and moved on.

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

I don't know, KK. I've seen many "Japanese Only" and "No Foreigners allowed" signs in my day. And I get over it and don't give a feth within moments. I've even had people scream "GO HOME!" at me, and once I've screamed back I'm feeling alright.

Albatross wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:If you don't see examples of this every day in American advertising and politics you aren't looking very hard.

Obviously not. Perhaps you could provide some examples? I'm happy to pretend that 'paternalistic racism' of the type you mentioned is remotely related to this news story.

Senator Harry Reid talking about Obama's lack of a "Negro dialect" and then-Candidate Joe Biden referring to how well-spoken Obama is are the two best political examples I can think of off hand. They thought they were being complimentary to the man, but from such a position of perceived superiority that they were surprised that a black man wasn't a thug with gold teeth.

I was relating it all to this news story because sometimes in the reaction to an event like this the line is blurred between people in power who genuinely want to move the country forward, and those who when something like this happens look at it more like "Uh oh, the blacks are upset. What can we do to shut them up and buy our products/vote for us again?"

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

er wait....

Non-lethal tear gas.......

Er wait...

K-9 support units....

Damnit!

Nerf Arrows and Twizzle sticks!

In all reality, I feel that this was a huge over-reaction on the part of the students. Hell, somebody spraypainted "Die Whitey" a couple of summers ago on the local campus, and nobody threw a fit over it much less threw a small riot. We just painted over it and moved on.

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

er wait....

Non-lethal tear gas.......

Er wait...

K-9 support units....

Damnit!

Nerf Arrows and Twizzle sticks!

In all reality, I feel that this was a huge over-reaction on the part of the students. Hell, somebody spraypainted "Die Whitey" a couple of summers ago on the local campus, and nobody threw a fit over it much less threw a small riot. We just painted over it and moved on.

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

I am speaking generally, of course. I don't know where jp400 lives.

Kornholio is no doubt aware that many whites are horrified to be on the receiving end of the "No Foreigners" culture when they visit Japan.

It would be somewhat disingenous not to acknowledge that such feelings are widespread and perfectly justifiable, although naturally we Dakka members are mature enough to rise above them.

Cane wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It also doesn't help anything 'storming offices' after someone hangs a noose.

But as it stands, it seems the bigger the rabble rousing here in the states, the more likely you are to get anything done.

When it comes to paying ten of thousands of dollars to study and do homework; yes it does help to go straight to "the man" and get things like nooses out of the library and to provide a safe and friendly campus environment. That kind of "rabbling" is pretty appropriate and deserved; its the office people's job to provide such an environment.

Note: I'm not saying that something shouldn't be done about some jackass who thinks hanging a noose is funny. I'm saying that starting riots over it isn't the answer.

Kanluwen wrote:

Cane wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It also doesn't help anything 'storming offices' after someone hangs a noose.

But as it stands, it seems the bigger the rabble rousing here in the states, the more likely you are to get anything done.

When it comes to paying ten of thousands of dollars to study and do homework; yes it does help to go straight to "the man" and get things like nooses out of the library and to provide a safe and friendly campus environment. That kind of "rabbling" is pretty appropriate and deserved; its the office people's job to provide such an environment.

Note: I'm not saying that something shouldn't be done about some jackass who thinks hanging a noose is funny. I'm saying that starting riots over it isn't the answer.

There was no rioting involved, but yes a riot would not be the answer.

Different definitions of riots

Buncha kids with bandanas obscuring their faces and blocking office entrances/exits isn't the right way to do it, I should have said.

Monster Rain wrote:Senator Harry Reid talking about Obama's lack of a "Negro dialect" and then-Candidate Joe Biden referring to how well-spoken Obama is are the two best political examples I can think of off hand. They thought they were being complimentary to the man, but from such a position of perceived superiority that they were surprised that a black man wasn't a thug with gold teeth.

That's just Racism. How where they going out of their way not to offend him? The example you cited only really shows that they considered Obama as anomalous to their perceived image of African-Americans.

THAT has nothing to do with THIS:

...not offending minorities to such a patronizing level that it is, in it's own elitist way, racist.

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

Actually according to the census whites constitute about 80% of San Diego County and about 77% of CA; Blacks about 6% in SD and 7% in CA: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html

In the near future its predicted that the USA (especially Texas) will definitely have a shift in majority to people with more mixed background specifically from Mexico and other Spanish speaking reagions; but thats a few years down the road.

And then for that university's undergrad statistics, Caucasians take up 27%, Blacks 2%, Asians with a whopping 44%, Mexican American 10%, Lationo/other Spanish 3%, more @ http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/Profile2008.pdf

Cane wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

Actually according to the census whites constitute about 80% of San Diego County and about 77% of CA; Blacks about 6% in SD and 7% in CA: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html

In the near future its predict that the USA (especially Texas) will definitely have a shift in majority to people with more mixed background specifically from Mexico and other Spanish speaking reagions; but thats a few years down the road.

And then for that university's undergrad statistics, Caucasians take up 27%, Blacks 2%, Asians with a whopping 44%, Mexican American 10%, Lationo/other Spanish 3%, more @ http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/Profile2008.pdf

MMm... no.
Statistics and Charts for:
Race/Ethnicity: Statistics Highlighting Disparities, African American, Latino, Native American, Asian, Pacific Islander
Region: Statewide


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

English Proficiency (California, 2006)
Language spoken at home and ability to speak English, population 5 years and older, California, 2006.

Over 40% of people in California speak a language other than English at home.
20.1% of people in California speak English less than “very well.”
Source: 2006 American Community Survey , U.S. Census Bureau




Racial/Ethnic Makeup (California, 2000)
Racial/ethnic makeup of California as percent of total population, 2000


Native Hawaiians and other Pacific Islanders make up 0.3% of California's population.
Asians make up 11% of California’s population.
People of color make up 53% of California's population.
African Americans make up 6% of California’s population.
Latinos make up 32% of California's population.
Native Americans and Alaska Natives make up 0.5% of California's population.
Source: U.S. Census 2000, U.S. Census Bureau
http://www.cpehn.org/democharts.php?ethnicityid%5B%5D=99ðnicityid%5B%5D=1ðnicityid%5B%5D=6ðnicityid%5B%5D=3ðnicityid%5B%5D=4ðnicityid%5B%5D=7&county=statewide&btn_search.x=52&btn_search.y=13

What a bunch of Racists, insisting that their race be singled out with their own exclusive student union and special study programs. The most racist things I see in the article.

"How am I supposed to walk into that building? How am I ever going to be safe there?" said ethnic studies major Cheyenne Stevens, who is black.

Really......really?! So people are just getting lynched right and left now, huh? How stupid.

Last fall I saw several houses with hollowed out gourds with leering faces on them, Oh how can I feel safe in my neighborhood when evil spirits are depicted on peoples front porches every year! Oh the HORROR!

Frazzled wrote:

Cane wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

jp400 wrote:I think campus police should have hit em with fire hoses....

Some people really just need to get over themselfs and grow the hell up.

That is because the whites are the majority. Such an incident looks entirely different if you are a small minority.

KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

Actually according to the census whites constitute about 80% of San Diego County and about 77% of CA; Blacks about 6% in SD and 7% in CA: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html

In the near future its predict that the USA (especially Texas) will definitely have a shift in majority to people with more mixed background specifically from Mexico and other Spanish speaking reagions; but thats a few years down the road.

And then for that university's undergrad statistics, Caucasians take up 27%, Blacks 2%, Asians with a whopping 44%, Mexican American 10%, Lationo/other Spanish 3%, more @ http://studentresearch.ucsd.edu/sriweb/Profile2008.pdf

MMm... no.

MMm... yes.

My link was from the census and it had 2008 estimate numbers. You're using a website that focuses on health care and also primarily uses 2000 statistics and the page itself omitted white % from what I can tell.

EDITED: clarification

A-B=C Cane. Figure it out.

100%-53%=?

A-B=C Cane. Figure it out.

100%-53%=?

Frazzled wrote:KK in California, the "whites" are not a majority. There are only pluralities in Cali, with "latino" being the largest. Thats a serious misnomer.

The misnomer, arguably not that serious, is that 'majority' in studies of racism refers simply to population size. It refers to power levels, which is why men, despite being 48% of the population are referred to as the majority, as they dominate senior positions in business and government.

Thats not the same. One is a number one is a relationship. Don't confuse numbers vs. power relationships.

Call it the majority, call it the power elite, call it the dominant group, we can all understand that such situations exist in human society.

sebster and Kilkrazy brought up great points; its definitely not just about the numbers and also more importantly whose got the pieces of the economic pie.

Frazzled wrote:A-B=C Cane. Figure it out.

100%-53%=?

Yea, I'm going to side with the 2008 estimates - Whites = 77% of CA.

Figured it out for you via the 2000 census which that health care website you linked used:

Whites = 59.5 %.

Race alone or combined with one or more other races; Whites = 63.4%

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=n&_lang=en&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_DP1&ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&geo_id=04000US06

Cane wrote:sebster and Kilkrazy brought up great points; its definitely not just about the numbers and also more importantly whose got the pieces of the economic pie.

Frazzled wrote:A-B=C Cane. Figure it out.

100%-53%=?

Yea, I'm going to side with the 2008 estimates - Whites = 77% of CA.

Figured it out for you via the 2000 census which that health care website you linked used:

Whites = 59.5 %.

Race alone or combined with one or more other races; Whites = 63.4%

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?_bm=n&_lang=en&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_DP1&ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&geo_id=04000US06

77% is a BS figure, at least south of the Grapevine.

Kilkrazy wrote:Call it the majority, call it the power elite, call it the dominant group,

In Mr. Frazzled's house they cause these privileged few "weiner hounds"

We are Wienies! We are Legion!

We call them sausage dogs in the UK.

It's a shame that you can't find the Starship Troopers models anymore, the Pathfinder K-9 units had weiner dogs as one of the random K9s you could get.

Would be *awesome* Fenrisian Wolves