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Heck, I'm gonna vote Conrad Curze, he'd probably have sliced angron's neck before his rage started.

Konrad. Love the power armor vigilante.

Leman Russ all the way, he was one of the best fighters and had a spear that demolished some of the biggest creatures he went up against with a single cast.

That and he's my home team... i gotta root for him

sniperjolly wrote:Let's see, I think I'll give every primarch a "win" in a differn't catagory.

With prep time, night haunted,

HtH, Ferrus.

Armed, Sanguinis.

Against a buhmillion mooks, Angron.

Fifty miles away from each other, at night, naked, with only knives, Corax(?)

Tag team, Alpharius Omegon beats Horus Abbadon anyday.

Invigorating theological debate, Lorgar =P.

"Mercy" Mortarion.

Extreme essay writing, Rowboat.

In a duel, Fulgrim.

Inside a fortification, Dorn.

Outside a fortification, Petereubo.

In a build a better moustrap compitition, on fire, Vulkan.

With pets, Russ.

In a chess match, Magnus.

Overall, Horus.

There? Is everone happy with a consseion?

No and they never will be.

It's true, Shaman.

@sniperjolly: What is this shoddy "with pets" category anyway?!?!

Honestly, Russ. However, each contender was made equally in most feilds, excelling at one, and that was how thier chapter was shaped. You cna't really compare.

*puts on mexican accent* Sang is the mang. He was always known as the finesse duelist swordsman that he is!

I love how everybody yells Russ at the top of their voices, ignoring how Lion El'Jonson was at least his match when they got into a scrap.

Manchu wrote:It's true, Shaman.

@sniperjolly: What is this shoddy "with pets" category anyway?!?!

I put russ in top place in combat, but I needed Sang to have something so I decided that if Freki and Gerri were counted as part of his wargear, he would definatly win. (probably without it, even)

@sniperjolly: I'm just joshin ya.

::rounds on WGXH::

You on the other hand . . . you do realize that Russ had no intention of killing Jonson in that fight? The same cannot be said for Jonson's intentions toward Russ.

I'm not discounting any of the other primarchs (except Magnus and Ferrus) but I still feel Russ would be the best in a duel, I believe against heavy/standard infantry Angron would be the best, no doubt, however I feel in a duel Russ would win, or Sanguinus or Fulgrim, but my moneys on Russ.

Also, I concur with Manchu, Russ stopped and laughed before Lion felled him. I do believe that Horus would be very good, however, unlike say Russ or Angron, he excels in strategy rather than combat...

Just Dave wrote:I'm not discounting any of the other primarchs (except Magnus and Ferrus) but I still feel Russ would be the best in a duel, I believe against heavy/standard infantry Angron would be the best, no doubt, however I feel in a duel Russ would win, or Sanguinus or Fulgrim, but my moneys on Russ.

Also, I concur with Manchu, Russ stopped and laughed before Lion felled him. I do believe that Horus would be very good, however, unlike say Russ or Angron, he excels in strategy rather than combat...

if he was the best the fight would not have lasted as long as it did (and whos to say Russ wouldnt have punched the Lion in the head if he turned away first eh?)

I think Angron. He would punch through your head before you could do anything.

sniperjolly wrote:Let's see, I think I'll give every primarch a "win" in a differn't catagory.

With prep time, night haunted,

HtH, Ferrus.

Armed, Sanguinis.

Against a buhmillion mooks, Angron.

Fifty miles away from each other, at night, naked, with only knives, Corax(?)

Tag team, Alpharius Omegon beats Horus Abbadon anyday.

Invigorating theological debate, Lorgar =P.

"Mercy" Mortarion.

Extreme essay writing, Rowboat.

In a duel, Fulgrim.

Inside a fortification, Dorn.

Outside a fortification, Petereubo.

In a build a better moustrap compitition, on fire, Vulkan.

With pets, Russ.

In a chess match, Magnus.

Overall, Horus.

There? Is everone happy with a consseion?

You forgot:
In a race, Khan.

Who would win in a fight? We will never know.

The only thing we are figuring out in this discussion is who can make the best argument for a particular primarch. Oh but xxxx pulls out his laser gun! Oh but my guy has a laser gun defense array ! Oh but my laser gun can penetrate laser defense arrays! You're dead! Nuh uh! etc etc etc until eternity.

Even the cases where a primarch has fought and killed another primarch may not have turned out that way if the battle was fought multiple times. Many lost because of the emotion/shock of seeing their brother fighting them or through the aide of chaos. Sang might not have fought at full capacity, horus had the power of chaos behind him, why didn't magnus melt russ' brains, why would alpharius/omegon fight another primarch straightforward at all?

Manchu wrote:
You on the other hand . . . you do realize that Russ had no intention of killing Jonson in that fight? The same cannot be said for Jonson's intentions toward Russ.

and your incontrovertible evidence?

WGXH wrote:I love how everybody yells Russ at the top of their voices, ignoring how Lion El'Jonson was at least his match when they got into a scrap.

Agreed. You can't fight for 3 entire days straight without being evenly matched. Nobody seems to care about the ol' Lion though...why is that?

Because the Lion, in the end, sucker punched Russ?

Besides, little is known 'for sure' about any of this.

In fact, reading A THOUSAND SONS right now, and having a hard time seeing who could beat Magnus!

Though it is 'his' book after all...

Alpharius wrote:Because the Lion, in the end, sucker punched Russ?

Besides, little is known 'for sure' about any of this.

In fact, reading A THOUSAND SONS right now, and having a hard time seeing who could beat Magnus!

Though it is 'his' book after all...

Agreed Alpharius. I myself am reading it and wondering how this devilbeast of a Primarch wasn't venerated as the best of the best. Some of the stuff going on in this book makes Russ and Anngron look like sick puppies.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Because the Lion, in the end, sucker punched Russ?

Besides, little is known 'for sure' about any of this.

In fact, reading A THOUSAND SONS right now, and having a hard time seeing who could beat Magnus!

Though it is 'his' book after all...

Agreed Alpharius. I myself am reading it and wondering how this devilbeast of a Primarch wasn't venerated as the best of the best. Some of the stuff going on in this book makes Russ and Anngron look like sick puppies.

True, but remember this is the Thousand Sons point of view book.

It will be interesting to see the Wolves' side of things.

Well, it will also be interesting to see where this ends, as I'm only 1/3 of the way through and I think there are a lot more surprises in store!

Agreed. I'm less than 1/2 through myself but so far it appears McNeill really enjoys stretching the boundaries of fluff.

WGXH wrote:

Manchu wrote:
You on the other hand . . . you do realize that Russ had no intention of killing Jonson in that fight? The same cannot be said for Jonson's intentions toward Russ.

and your incontrovertible evidence?

intention; Russ was angry that the Lion took his prize kill, the Lion thought Russ was a traitor.

Russ was just duking it out for honor, the Lion was fighting for his life/attempting to slay a (not quite) traitor.

:ATTENTION EVERYONE:
SANGUINIUS WENT DOWN LIKE A PUNK
:THAT IS ALL:

btw, Corax FTW

Demogerg wrote:

WGXH wrote:

Manchu wrote:
You on the other hand . . . you do realize that Russ had no intention of killing Jonson in that fight? The same cannot be said for Jonson's intentions toward Russ.

and your incontrovertible evidence?

intention; Russ was angry that the Lion took his prize kill, the Lion thought Russ was a traitor.

Russ was just duking it out for honor, the Lion was fighting for his life/attempting to slay a (not quite) traitor.

That's right, I remember. Lion was trying so hard to kill Russ, he laid him out on the floor, and totally stabbed him all over.

Wait, no he didn't.

Rather, he simply considered being attacked a stain on his honour, which he sought to rectify. Russ was duking it out for honour, as was the Lion.

It's just that simple.

I think that the fight took the piss out of the Lion, hence the cheap shot. My interpretation has always been that the Lion fought as hard as he could under the assumptions Demogerg mentioned and couldn't get anywhere whereas Russ was just wraslin. The fact that Jonson punched Russ in the face while Russ was having a chuckle at the whole thing is pretty good evidence that the Lion takes himself very, very, very seriously.

Manchu wrote:I think that the fight took the piss out of the Lion, hence the cheap shot. My interpretation has always been that the Lion fought as hard as he could under the assumptions Demogerg mentioned and couldn't get anywhere whereas Russ was just wraslin. The fact that Jonson punched Russ in the face while Russ was having a chuckle at the whole thing is pretty good evidence that the Lion takes himself very, very, very seriously.

Manchu's got it, exactly!

Manchu wrote:I think that the fight took the piss out of the Lion, hence the cheap shot. My interpretation has always been that the Lion fought as hard as he could under the assumptions Demogerg mentioned and couldn't get anywhere whereas Russ was just wraslin. The fact that Jonson punched Russ in the face while Russ was having a chuckle at the whole thing is pretty good evidence that the Lion takes himself very, very, very seriously.

Not really. According to the SW codex it was Russ who attacked the Lion first, enraged that the Lion killed had killed Durath before he got a chance to, as Durath had insulted Russ calling him "The Emperor's Lapdog". A bit of a dick move by the Lion, but you can't say that Russ wasn't serious about it, at least not until the very end when he saw the futility in it. The Lion, having been attacked for no apparent good reason, evidently did not see the humour and ended it. Russ started it, the Lion finished it. The fact that he left Russ alive afterwards suggests that he did not think he was a traitor.

I guess we're just DA and a SW fanboys seeing two sides of the same coin.

Not defending the Roidicidal geneticly enhanced superhumans bred for absolutely nothing but combat (especially not the one bred specificly for combat AGAINST HIS OWN BROTHERS) but the topic is who would win in a fight. Russ clearly wins. The only question is if he Lion's final blow was petty spite or vengence for a preceved slight. Same coin either way, I suppose

Well, Lion was doing his job, and Russ was just having a temper tantrum because someone called him a name. So the final hit could have been as much of a smack with a rolled-up newspaper to get Russ to smarten up as a fight-stopper. In a serious fight, I have to agree, Russ would beat Lion, but that's only providing Lion didn't out-think, out-maneuver, and out-source Russ (all of which I think are more than likely).

unbeliever87 wrote:

Manchu wrote:I think that the fight took the piss out of the Lion, hence the cheap shot. My interpretation has always been that the Lion fought as hard as he could under the assumptions Demogerg mentioned and couldn't get anywhere whereas Russ was just wraslin. The fact that Jonson punched Russ in the face while Russ was having a chuckle at the whole thing is pretty good evidence that the Lion takes himself very, very, very seriously.

Not really. According to the SW codex it was Russ who attacked the Lion first, enraged that the Lion killed had killed Durath before he got a chance to, as Durath had insulted Russ calling him "The Emperor's Lapdog". A bit of a dick move by the Lion, but you can't say that Russ wasn't serious about it, at least not until the very end when he saw the futility in it. The Lion, having been attacked for no apparent good reason, evidently did not see the humour and ended it. Russ started it, the Lion finished it. The fact that he left Russ alive afterwards suggests that he did not think he was a traitor.

I guess we're just DA and a SW fanboys seeing two sides of the same coin.

I agree with this assessment. I'll hasten to add I love all Marine chapters equally. I just think a lot of the time, The Lion is completely disregarded due to a load of gimp dex marines, not the Wolves who use the codex astartes at toilet paper. A lot of people claim that Russ wasn't fighting all out, but he's never been a guy to pull punches, and there appears to be little to no evidence to substantiate this opinion.

sniperjolly wrote:Not defending the Roidicidal geneticly enhanced superhumans bred for absolutely nothing but combat (especially not the one bred specificly for combat AGAINST HIS OWN BROTHERS) but the topic is who would win in a fight. Russ clearly wins. The only question is if he Lion's final blow was petty spite or vengence for a preceved slight. Same coin either way, I suppose

The DA dex implies the latter, but it could equally be the former.

For what it's worth, I reckon the overall winner would be Russ, still. I just think it might not be such a curbstomp battle everybody makes it out to be. The g ap between the primarchs is closer than many think, I beleive.

Except Lorgar. What's he gunna do, hit you with a bible?