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WGXH wrote:Except Lorgar. What's he gunna do, hit you with a bible?
Well, no, he's gonna state some really shady religious gak and while you stand and think what the feth he was trying to say, he'll sneak upon you and only then hit you with a surgically-sharpened-edges Bible.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/09 13:26:34
WGXH wrote:
For what it's worth, I reckon the overall winner would be Russ, still. I just think it might not be such a curbstomp battle everybody makes it out to be. The g ap between the primarchs is closer than many think, I beleive.
Agreed here, all of the primarchs are genetically engineered gods of war designed with one real purpose... to kill stuff.
So this is really just a popularity contest, one that pops up every few months or so here on Dakka, and just about every time Russ comes out on top.
THE HORUS HERESY: Emprah: Hours, go reconquer the galaxy so there can be a new golden age. Horus: But I should be Emprah, bawwwwww! Emprah: Magnus, stop it with the sorcery. Magnus: But I know what's best, bawwwwww! Emprah: Horus, tell Russ to bring Magnus to me because I said so. Horus: Emprah wants you to kill Magnus because he said so. Russ: Fine. Emprah's always right. Plus Ole Red has already been denounced as a traitor and I never liked him anyway. Russ: You're about to die, cyclops! Magnus: O noes! Tzeentch, I choose you! Bawwwww! Russ: Ah well. Now to go kill Horus. Russ: Rowboat, how have you not been doing anything? Guilliman: . . . I've been writing a book. Russ: Sigh. Let's go. Guilliman: And I fought the Word Bearers! Horus: Oh shi--Spess Puppies a'comin? Abbadon: And the Ultramarines, sir. Horus: Who? Anyway, this looks bad. *enter Sanguinis* What are you doing here? Come to join me? Sanguinius: *throws self on Horus's power claws* Alas, I am undone! When you play Castlevania, remember me! *enter Emprah* Emprah: Horus! So my favorite son killed my favorite daughter! Horus: What about the Lion? Emprah: Never liked her. Horus: No one does. Now prepare to die! *mortally wounds Emprah*Emprah: Au contraire, you dick. *kills Horus* Dorn: Okay, now I just plug this into this and . . . okay, it works! Emprah? Hellooooo? Jonson: I did nothing! Guilliman: I did more nothing that you! Jonson: Nuh-uh. I was the most worthless! Guilliman: Have you read my book? Dorn: No one likes that book. Khan: C'mon guys. It's not that bad. Dorn: I guess not. Russ: You all suck. Ima go bring the Emprah back to life.
DA:80-S+++G+++M++++B++I+Pw40k97#+D++++A++++/fWD199R+++T(S)DM+
Here's my two cents. I don't know much about the primarks because I'm yet to read the HH books. But I think Russ or Horus. Mainly because Russ nearly beat the emperor in hand to hand and when he lost took it with a smile which shows he has self discipline. Also Horus because he's just generally quite awesome at combat but the only reason he beat the emperor is because he was all chaosed up. But then again people only say Sanguinus didn't beat Hours because he didn't want to kill his brother. One thing I think we can agree on is that Rowboat Jellybean wouldn't stand a chance.
All Between 750 and 3000 points: Nids, BA, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Orks, CSM, Tau, Ogres, Vampire Counts, Daemons, Skaven, Empire.
DR:90S++G++M+B--IPw40k01+D++A+++/eWD340R+++T(F)DM++
"When the going gets rough the sensible conceal themselves behind large pieces of furniture."
spamandchips wrote:One thing I think we can agree on is that Rowboat Jellybean wouldn't stand a chance.
He would, only not for the winner
Not really. He was a good fighter, as everyone primarch was. However, he was not a specialist. He was a strategist who could dictate to his whole Legion more effective than any other, but he was not the powerhouse of Russ or Anngron.
And I'm amused by the Lorgar haters. He was indeed a fighter, and usually took no weapons to a fight. I've seen a few entries about how he fought, though most of it was fan based. However, it does seem his radiant golden skin wasn't just for show. You can't fight blind, after all.
"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First
Book of Epistles of Lorgar
Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?
"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
I see the "you have no evidence for this" argument a lot on Dakka with regard to the fluff and it seems like a missing the forest for the trees problem to me. I think the overarching point about the fight between the Wolf and the Lion is that Russ is the type who becomes your bestest brawlin and drinkin buddy after fighting you (given that you're not an actual enemy) whereas Jonson is the type who never forgives you for an affront to his dignity. The implication is that while Russ was certainly fighting, he wasn't fighting like he did against Magnus--otherwise, Jonson would have arguably died right there. Conversely, there's nothing to indicate that Jonson has a "fight allies" mode that is distinct from his "fight enemies" mode, so to speak. The fact that he didn't kill Russ while he was unconscious doesn't strike me as evidence to the contrary. The Lion would have had to be a total idiot to think that Russ was some kind of traitor. Jonson knew this fight wasn't about that. And the most embarassing part of the whole thing for him was when Russ stopped and laughed at the whole situation, which he had been taking very seriously. That's what's so cheap about Jonson's cheap shot.
Oh the irony. Yes, I'd agree, the "you have no evidence for this" argument happens quite a lot here.
I could also suggest that the Lion wasn't fighting seriously or at full strength either. As you said, he knew that Russ wasn't a traitor and that the fight was about honour, so he humoured him for a couple of days to let Russ get all the anger out of himself. The "cheap shot" was more akin to a parent smacking a child after they misbehaved.
You seem to believe that the Lion was some sort of idiot, why is that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/10 17:06:34
You brighten my life like a polystyrene hat, but it melts in the sun like a life without love, and I've waited for you so I'll keep holding on without you.
"There's nothing cooler than being proud of the things that you love" - Sean Plott
I wish my lawn was emo...
Then it would cut itself.
In the end, SoB are uppity female canines who enjoy their faith in the emperor so much, I'd say they themselves are no longer truly human. They've given up normal life in exchange to become bolter-bitches.
unbeliever87 wrote:
You seem to believe that the Lion was some sort of idiot, why is that?
Horus Heresy Dark Angels books among other things
Agreed. The HHDA books are pure garbage. It's like a 40k-nerd/emo's idea of a wet dream. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating with the stereotype.
"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First
Book of Epistles of Lorgar
Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?
"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
unbeliever87 wrote:
You seem to believe that the Lion was some sort of idiot, why is that?
Horus Heresy Dark Angels books among other things
Agreed. The HHDA books are pure garbage. It's like a 40k-nerd/emo's idea of a wet dream. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating with the stereotype.
I'm about to finish the first of those, I have yet to find anything that is bad about it. :\ But then again, I hardly ever get why people are bashing certain books... except dawn of war books >_> back flipping terminators my ass...
unbeliever87 wrote:
You seem to believe that the Lion was some sort of idiot, why is that?
Horus Heresy Dark Angels books among other things
Agreed. The HHDA books are pure garbage. It's like a 40k-nerd/emo's idea of a wet dream. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating with the stereotype.
I'm about to finish the first of those, I have yet to find anything that is bad about it. :\ But then again, I hardly ever get why people are bashing certain books... except dawn of war books >_> back flipping terminators my ass...
To me, the book was boring as heck. The first especially. I didn't care about how Lion was raised, but I wanted to know what he was doing. I don't care how angry and oppressive he was, but I'd have liked to know why he was like that. The movement from his early life to his later, being that he went from seeing Luther as his equal to his lesser, made absolutely no sense at all, simply because it was such a radical change in ideas. But yes, nothing sticks out as wrong until you look how damn stupid some of it is.
"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First
Book of Epistles of Lorgar
Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?
"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
unbeliever87 wrote:
You seem to believe that the Lion was some sort of idiot, why is that?
Horus Heresy Dark Angels books among other things
Agreed. The HHDA books are pure garbage. It's like a 40k-nerd/emo's idea of a wet dream. Sadly, I'm not even exaggerating with the stereotype.
I'm about to finish the first of those, I have yet to find anything that is bad about it. :\ But then again, I hardly ever get why people are bashing certain books... except dawn of war books >_> back flipping terminators my ass...
To me, the book was boring as heck. The first especially. I didn't care about how Lion was raised, but I wanted to know what he was doing. I don't care how angry and oppressive he was, but I'd have liked to know why he was like that. The movement from his early life to his later, being that he went from seeing Luther as his equal to his lesser, made absolutely no sense at all, simply because it was such a radical change in ideas. But yes, nothing sticks out as wrong until you look how damn stupid some of it is.
Fair enough, the books are not exactly Heresy material but I guess they do help put the whole thing into context. So, here's a highlight of what the Lion did wrong over the course of two books.
Spoiler:
The Lion pretty much alienates all the Calibanites that didn't make the cut to Astartes by drastically changing the face of the planet (both during the Great Hunts and after the Imperium makes contact) and making them feel used and abandoned.
He pretty much outshines Luther consistently, he fails to see how that might push one towards envy, and when the whole thing erupts, what does he do? He banishes Luther (and half his Legion, for that matter) to a backwater world, further feeding his bitterness. And why? Because Luther though about betraying him. Did he somehow miss the fact that it was Luther that saved him, in the end, despite having a chance to get away with it all?
Then there's the question of why the hell would any sane commander engaged in a large scale crusade suddenly send half his forces to garrison duty half the galaxy away.
And then there's book two. News of the virus bombing at Istvaan is still fresh, and the Imperium is in shock. What does the Lion do? He goes on a cloak-and-dagger mission with a small force, in hopes of making a good enough impression to become the new Warmaster. Of course, his goal was to prevent Horus from claiming the biggest siege guns in the Galaxy, so I guess it's a pretty strategic move. But he goes to war with little more than his honor guard, damn it. While his very numerous, very experienced Legion is split in two, doing absolutely nothing productive, and about as far away from possible from Terra as you could get and still be in this galaxy.
Anyway, mission successful, he finally secures the guns, so what does he do? He hands them over to Perturabo, of all people, in an effort to secure his support when the Lion would become Warmaster. This bit, I particularly liked because it shows that a) the Lion is obsessed with blowing his own horn; b) is probably the worst judge of character ever; c) is dumber than a brick if he thinks he can sweet talk Perturabo - the one primarch who is all but immune to flattery and who still resented not being named Warmaster the first time - into supporting him.
Although the Lion realizes that Terra is Horus' endgame, does he order his Legion to mobilize there in reserve, while he's off playing hero? Nooooo... the Dark Angels are useless as crap for the entire duration of the Heresy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/03/11 02:40:22
Q: How many Space Marines does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: None. The Emperor IS MY LIGHT!!!
Azezel wrote:I believe they've tried that. thirteen times in fact... Fourteen if you count that Horus thing.
I could never figure out how a guy with angel wings could make it so long without having someone unleash a flamer on his highly flammable backside. Are his wings fire proof? Is this ever addressed in the books or older fluff?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/03/11 15:50:28
I've got to ask this but why is Rogal Dorn not being considered?
1v1 in a duel i've got to plump for either Russ who as we all know can fight in 1v1 very well as outlined earlier in this thread. My other chioce has to be Horus, nominatted warmaster, killed Sang (but buoyed up with pure chaos admittedly) and motrally wounded the Emporer.
"Praise Be To The Omissiah!"
"Three things make the Empire great: Faith, Steel and Gunpowder!"
Azarath Metrion Zinthos
Expect my posts to have a bazillion edits. I miss out letters, words, sometimes even entire sentences in my points and posts.
Corey85 wrote:I could never figure out how a guy with angel wings could make it so long without having someone unleash a flamer on his highly flammable backside. Are his wings fire proof? Is this ever addressed in the books or older fluff?
Simple. No one got close enough to unleash a flamer onto his back without dieing. He's got an incredibly elite bodyguard and he has amazing combat skills. If you could get close enough to hit him, you'd be dead, and itd be impossible to angle it to hit his wings when they are stowed to not be used behind his back.
"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First
Book of Epistles of Lorgar
Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?
"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
Corey85 wrote:I could never figure out how a guy with angel wings could make it so long without having someone unleash a flamer on his highly flammable backside. Are his wings fire proof? Is this ever addressed in the books or older fluff?
Simple. No one got close enough to unleash a flamer onto his back without dieing. He's got an incredibly elite bodyguard and he has amazing combat skills. If you could get close enough to hit him, you'd be dead, and itd be impossible to angle it to hit his wings when they are stowed to not be used behind his back.
A real flamethrower has A LOT of range, don't understimate this, also, comparing them to a real flamethrower, they aren't flames that just go out in a few seconds, it's more like "sticky fire" a lot of the fuel isn't ignited by the time it reaches the target (if sufficient pressure is used that is) and it wouldn't just hit the side your firing from, but it would pretty much envelope the general area.
But, he could just fly away anyway.. But I'm guessing he treats them with flame retardent gel (that also gives off that shiny effect! )
Corey85 wrote:I could never figure out how a guy with angel wings could make it so long without having someone unleash a flamer on his highly flammable backside. Are his wings fire proof? Is this ever addressed in the books or older fluff?
Simple. No one got close enough to unleash a flamer onto his back without dieing. He's got an incredibly elite bodyguard and he has amazing combat skills. If you could get close enough to hit him, you'd be dead, and itd be impossible to angle it to hit his wings when they are stowed to not be used behind his back.
A real flamethrower has A LOT of range, don't understimate this, also, comparing them to a real flamethrower, they aren't flames that just go out in a few seconds, it's more like "sticky fire" a lot of the fuel isn't ignited by the time it reaches the target (if sufficient pressure is used that is) and it wouldn't just hit the side your firing from, but it would pretty much envelope the general area.
But, he could just fly away anyway.. But I'm guessing he treats them with flame retardent gel (that also gives off that shiny effect! )
Actually, primarchs practically bathed themselves in oil which was HARDLY flame retardent. But, like I said, ain't nobody getting close enough. I know flamers have a good range, but it simply doesn't matter.
And the modern flamethrower isn't going ten yards. Besides, this is a FLAMER, it is actually quite different and would probably go even further.
"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First
Book of Epistles of Lorgar
Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?
"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
yep, technically 91.4, but 90 will get you far enough in life. Honestly, in the US of A, we hardly use yards for anything anymore, except for the noble game of blood bo- I mean American Football.
6000 points IG, Leviathins 8th company, (store regiment) 60% painted 4500 points Empire 80-90% painted!
2500 Ogres 2% painted
WIP Biker Battle Company 95% painted
2500 Points Isstavan Drop site massacre Iron Hands (still waiting for dat codex) I managed to play a 1750 point game with minimal proxieing on the first day DE came out. go me!
The Gutterballers, a relatively successfull BloodBowl team
Oh, and Howard's Faildar
Angron the bezerker would lose to Russ because he wouldn't fight dirty. He would pop the bezerker rage and charge in swinging and that would be about the level of thought that went into it. So I see him having a big problem with Russ and Konrad in a standup fight.
Sanguinius and Fulgrim both had good technical skill, but that probably wouldn't have helped too much. And I see Corax, Khan and Alpharius as too smart to fight Angron head on. They would have dropped back and lured him into a mine field or into a pre-planned artillery strike.
ANGRON ALL THE WAY. I know primarchs are tuff but surviving a sismic mine that took out the company he was with at the end of the second HH book, then killing every enemy warrior in a split second, I mean, id like to see little sang do that!
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I Die, You are forgiven. If I Live, I will kill you." Such is the Rule of Honor.
crazykiwi wrote:because they are all russ fan boys
lol And you have Lion in your avatar? Quite.
ssssh thats a secret
I wish my lawn was emo...
Then it would cut itself.
In the end, SoB are uppity female canines who enjoy their faith in the emperor so much, I'd say they themselves are no longer truly human. They've given up normal life in exchange to become bolter-bitches.
Could you be there
among other things
Deathskulls
Logan Grimnar's Great Company
(note that I have no clue how big a yard is.
-Kulvain Hestarius, Death Guard 
go me!
