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WarOne wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

I have a fantasy where Ted Turner is elected President but refuses because he doesn't want to give up power.

Ted Turner and Captain Planet: 1992 Fourth Party Presidential Canidates on Green Party Ticket:



Slogan: Just remember, the power is yours!

Only thing that came to mind looking at that pic:

"They had the 'Fistbump' in 1992?!"

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

"They had the 'Fistbump' in 1992?!"

Progression of the Fist Bump:

Origin:


Main Source of Spreading Popularity:


Exporting to Other Cultures:


Common Response of Other Cultures:


Transformation on the Intrawebs:


Final Ascenancy:


Nail in the Coffin:

Frazzled wrote:
I will enjoy watching the lawsuits. 38 states are promising lawsuits at point of writing. That whole Constitution thing is just SO inconvenient.

Nothing in the bill is blatantly unconstitutional. The best argument seems to be that the 16th amendment does not allow for the taxation of anything other than income; meaning that the requirement to purchase health insurance, if you viewed as a tax, violates the 10th amendment.

This bill will not end well. At first it'll be hunky-dory, but when the average American lifespan doesn't increase then we'll see more people calling the bill useless. The lifespan isn't tied into health care, after all England has health care and they live about 1 more year than Americans on average.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html



Comparing those I'll blame working on the lower life expectancy. (The lower the average hours worked, the higher the life expectancy save for Japan and I think Greece.).



The "health care reform" bill does not reform health care at all, it just gives the "insured" title to the uninsured at a premium. As for those who don't have insurance, they have to buy it and even if it's cheap, lack of money means you can't buy it so you get fined for being unable to afford it.

Also, I would say that its similar to car insurance (which is mandatory in most states). You pay for a car and then are needed to pay for its insurance lest you want to face a fine, thus raising the actual cost of owning a car.
The difference is you don't buy yourself.

We need to be able to fund this program. Most companies will pay for part of the treatment depending on the price you pay and what program you enlisted in. The price for this new program is going to be low, but medical treatment is expensive so the price differences need to be met. The government is the source of insurance and will pay for the treatment costs, seeing as though the people pay the government, we can effectively say that we pay for the treatment.

Also, an issue for many private practice doctors is that they "down-code" a.k.a price for a lower service than the one that they actually give. A magazine directed towards private practice physicians was giving tips on how to stay afloat in terms of business. It told them to write down the exact service and code for what they actually did. The reason some doctors down-code is because the insurance companies don't like paying more for what they need to, but if the services rendered match the code, the doctors are fine and get paid what they actually deserve.

The issue is these doctors will now be fighting the government when an issue of coding is called up and it is far easier to fight a company than it is the government. (After all the companies may hire lawyers, but the government is made up entirely of lawyers.).

The response will be a higher pricing for the government insurance or less pay for doctors. Either way is not a good ending.

The price goes up and people once again become uninsured, or taxes goes up and people all across the country become more miserable. This is if the government plan begins to cost more.

If the doctors get paid less, then we see a lower income for the doctors. Sure the doctors should be sworn to help whomever they can and should be made to take care of your sick family members, but doctors have family members of their own who most likely take precedence. This could lead to medical care becoming a less lucrative business (college and med-school are expensive and so are the loans to go through them) so we may see less doctors entering the practice. Or we may see private practice doctors denying care to those with the government insurance only (they can do this).

This plan will not end well.

Good move by the government that helps the Average Joe instead of just sending them off to war.

Even better if Rush actually leaves the US of A.

I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand I'm glad we have a starting point for health care reform.

On the other hand I worry that during a recession is not the time to start it, and I worry about the numbers that are being tossed around.

A few comments.

Dr's aren't going anywhere. All other countries have National Health care systems so they gain nothing by leaving.

You are allready "forced" to buy insurance if you drive an automobile.

Not one republican voted for this bill and 30-ish democrats voted no. I don't like the partisan way this was pushed through, and I believe it will cost the Dems dearly in future elections.

GG

halonachos wrote:This bill will not end well. At first it'll be hunky-dory, but when the average American lifespan doesn't increase then we'll see more people calling the bill useless. The lifespan isn't tied into health care, after all England has health care and they live about 1 more year than Americans on average.

Naaaa, that average is for the whole of Great Britain. The average age gets increased when you factor out the Scots only living till their 34 because of their ponchant for 9% Super Tenents at 10AM and deep fried pizza and mars bars for Supper. The average Englishman lives to 104 on a healthy diet of Tea, Roast Beef and smugness.

Most go, I have to get down to the Death Panel see if this headache is worth taking an aspirin for or whether they will just slot me there and then.

I honestly don't care how this affects anyone but me. I have no insurance and haven't for 6 or so years. I'm 24. So now unless I get insurance I have to pay a fine starting 2014? And I pay more taxes to support the people who are going to fine me? Looks like I lose :p

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I honestly don't care how this affects anyone but me. I have no insurance and haven't for 6 or so years. I'm 24. So now unless I get insurance I have to pay a fine starting 2014? And I pay more taxes to support the people who are going to fine me? Looks like I lose :p

HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH
How's that change working out for ya now????

Seriously though, did I get that right?

generalgrog wrote:

You are allready "forced" to buy insurance if you drive an automobile.

I have had auto insurance for 6 months of the past 3 years. Amazingly I always seem to get a new policy right before registration renewal and inspection is due. I've gotten one ticket in that time. I think mandatory auto insurance is really, really stupid as the insurance company tries to feth everyone in the process anyway.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Seriously though, did I get that right?

generalgrog wrote:

You are allready "forced" to buy insurance if you drive an automobile.

I have had auto insurance for 6 months of the past 3 years. Amazingly I always seem to get a new policy right before registration renewal and inspection is due. I've gotten one ticket in that time. I think mandatory auto insurance is really, really stupid as the insurance company tries to feth everyone in the process anyway.

That's highly irresponsible. Mandatory automobile insurance is not for you, it is for the injury you may cause a third party (Or their property).

Find a way to work in my budget the money I owe some ambiguous figure for the rampant pain and destruction I'm apparently causing and I'll gladly take them up on their offer. In the mean time, nobody's losing so I fail to see the harm. At the moment I'm scrambling to keep a roof over my head, electricity and a phone, even with searching for additional employment over the past 7 months. My grocery budget weekly is under $20. So I:

A. Don't drive and rely on more-expensive public transportation that can't get me to work.

B: Drive in limited amount so I can pay all of my other bills by holding what job I do have.

Hmm...

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Seriously though, did I get that right?

generalgrog wrote:

You are allready "forced" to buy insurance if you drive an automobile.

I have had auto insurance for 6 months of the past 3 years. Amazingly I always seem to get a new policy right before registration renewal and inspection is due. I've gotten one ticket in that time. I think mandatory auto insurance is really, really stupid as the insurance company tries to feth everyone in the process anyway.

So you're a burden on the system, paying nothing, but fully prepared to have others pay for you in the event of your injury or car accident (or since you don't have either kinds of insurance both at the same time)? Quite responsible of you. I love the parallels here between anti-healthcare people not having insurance and the oft cited statistic of illegal immigrants getting free healthcare because they don't have insurance.

Find a way to work in my budget the money I owe some ambiguous figure for the rampant pain and destruction

They used to call that debtors prison. Now they call it legal action.

ShumaGorath wrote:
So you're a burden on the system, paying nothing, but fully prepared to have others pay for you in the event of your injury or car accident (or since you don't have either kinds of insurance both at the same time)? Quite responsible of you. I love the parallels here between anti-healthcare people not having insurance and the oft cited statistic of illegal immigrants getting free healthcare because they don't have insurance.

I love that you assume that I'm anti-healthcare. Thanks for jumping to conclusions. No one has to pay for me in the event of anything happening, and if they do, I'll pay it off when I have the money (sorta like how I'd have insurance if I had the money because some guy says I need to and he's entitled to spend the ridiculously low amount I earn for me).

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Find a way to work in my budget the money I owe some ambiguous figure for the rampant pain and destruction I'm apparently causing and I'll gladly take them up on their offer.

This is exactly why you should have insurance. Flip the tables. Given your financial status, if someone were to hit you and lack insurance, you would have no compensation for your vehicle, damages or lost work potential. That sure would suck, wouldn't it?

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
So you're a burden on the system, paying nothing, but fully prepared to have others pay for you in the event of your injury or car accident (or since you don't have either kinds of insurance both at the same time)? Quite responsible of you. I love the parallels here between anti-healthcare people not having insurance and the oft cited statistic of illegal immigrants getting free healthcare because they don't have insurance.

I love that you assume that I'm anti-healthcare. Thanks for jumping to conclusions. No one has to pay for me in the event of anything happening, and if they do, I'll pay it off when I have the money (sorta like how I'd have insurance if I had the money because some guy says I need to and he's entitled to spend the ridiculously low amount I earn for me).

I'm pretty sure thats not how lawsuits stemming from car accidents work. You would pay them when the court demands you do or they would seize what little assets you have. Chipper up though, at the lowest levels insurance would be practically free due to this, so it's unlikely anyone would have to pay 2.5% of their earnings unless they refused to get insurance at all. As for the car insurance thing you just shouldn't be driving without it. Period. It's not a particularly safe thing to do financially.

Seeing as it's happened to both me and my brother, sure does. Legal action ended up costing us money and time and nothing positive happened for either us because, amazingly, the guy didn't have money. The practical solution was to fix it out of our own pockets and let it be because nothing was going to happen the other route. Again, where does the money for me to get insurance come from? From the swarms of jobs out there?

Edit: I came here looking for an answer, not a lecture :p Thanks for the opinions, but I'll do what I can when I can.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Seeing as it's happened to both me and my brother, sure does. Legal action ended up costing us money and time and nothing positive happened for either us because, amazingly, the guy didn't have money. The practical solution was to fix it out of our own pockets and let it be because nothing was going to happen the other route. Again, where does the money for me to get insurance come from? From the swarms of jobs out there?

Which one? Car or health? The health will likely be comped or simply ludicrously cheap, though you wont be charged for it for 4 years anyway. And if you don't have a job by then you have bigger problems. For car insurance theres no real way to get it cheap, and you just shouldn't drive without it. Wait a few months for things to slowly begin to come online and take effect and then look into it. Theres not much to be done right now, none of its started.

OMG healthcare passed? We are all socialist, Communist nazis now? I didn't even notice the sky falling this morning, or the country turing to ash? Turns out we just got on par with every other 1st world nation.

They said the same nonsense when Obama got elected, and for every other thing he has done.

Keep crying wolf.

Er... isnt that illegal Can?

In the UK it is illegal to not have at least 3rd party insurance. And rightly so. If you accidentally mount the curb and wipe out another guys new car and caravan, you owe the guy money, and then there are injuries and such...

Im asuming this is not the case in the US then?

Crazy...

No, it is illegal. I also can't afford it. I can't have a job without driving since public transportation sucks around here. Do the math and you'll see the problem I'm having.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:No, it is illegal. I also can't afford it. I can't have a job without driving since public transportation sucks around here. Do the math and you'll see the problem I'm having.

I have a friend in a similar situation, and it's really not an easy thing to deal with. Honestly the only real option you have is to keep trying to get a job, theres not much other recourse right now if you're in a similar situation to his. You should probably be really careful not to get in an accident or pulled over.

Ah i figured that was the case...

Hey mate, i sympathise with you if your skint of course, but im just saying, you know.. it is illegal for a good reason.

Im a good driver, but everyone makes mistakes, if you happen to feth up and wipe out a whole bunch of people, then you really do need to be able to hold up your hands and say "at least i had insurance"

Im not exactlly rockerfella, but ive always had insurance. Just get a crappy car and get third party only, it cant cost that much surely?

I want to clarify, I'm not trying to glorify anything or encourage breaking the law or whatever. I'm just in a pickle and doing my best to get to the legal limit and make my life better. Lesson, kiddies: stay in school and live with your parents until you're stable. If they happen to remarry and move to another country the moment you turn 18 while having previously forbidden you from having a job so you have no work experience or basis in the real world, just end your life or prepare to fight like hell to make it better.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Well, here are my thoughts for those who don't care. Our healthcare "system" is a disaster. It is an endless cycle of debt that is slowly creeping over the middle class. That cycle being;

1. Someone can't afford insurance, as they make too much for Medicaid and make too little to buy a policy (Or have a preexisting condition). They are therefore without insurance.

2. That someone gets ill and requires hospitalization. Unfortunately, this means a bill that will easily reach 6 digits, perhaps more depending on issue.

3. That someone obviously can't afford to pay for that bill, provided they could not afford insurance in the first place. They default, file and the hospital eats the bill. It's estimated anywhere from 50-65% of all bankruptcy claims are due to medical bills.

4. To cover that cost, the hospital begins raising prices on mundane items and services for those whom do have insurance. Insurance companies pay more.

5. To cover that cost, insurance companies raise premiums, copays and deductibles. Insurance coverage grows more expensive with less benefits.

6. Due to raising insurance costs, less employers offer benefits and begin hiring part time people to cover shifts. The differential pay for part time/prn staff is nowhere the cost of hiring full time with benefits.

7. Due to less employers offering insurance and rising costs, more individuals can't afford insurance. The are therefore without insurance and hope they do get sick. If they do, go to step 2.

This seems to be something that isn't quite grasped by many of the people opposed to health insurance reform. You're already paying to cover everyone in case of catastrophe, just because you aren't writing a check to the government doesn't mean it isn't occuring.

Good move by the government that helps the Average Joe instead of just sending them off to war.

We haven't had a draft for decades. That is a good thing.

It has yet to be seen how this will actually help the Average Joe. If small businesses see this as bad for their future there will be less hiring and the economy does not come back as quickly (if at all). That would be bad for the 'Average Joe'.

If insurance companies cannot exclude for pre-existing conditions they KNOW clients with pre-existing conditions will cost them more. They either must charge those clients more for the coverage (like many do for smokers now) or raise premiums on everybody or some combination. (They cannot pay out more without taking in more and stay in business). If thier profit margines drop companies will move on to other business vice health insurance leaving the 'Average Joe' with less choices which cost more. That does not sound good for the Average Joe.

So again, your basic 'sending them off to war' comment was pretty misplaced and whether this helps the 'Average Joe' in fact remains to be seen.

The bill might not be perfect, but it is getting rid of Rush Limbaugh.

Easily worth the faults.

CptJake wrote:

Good move by the government that helps the Average Joe instead of just sending them off to war.

We haven't had a draft for decades. That is a good thing.

It has yet to be seen how this will actually help the Average Joe. If small businesses see this as bad for their future there will be less hiring and the economy does not come back as quickly (if at all). That would be bad for the 'Average Joe'.

If insurance companies cannot exclude for pre-existing conditions they KNOW clients with pre-existing conditions will cost them more. They either must charge those clients more for the coverage (like many do for smokers now) or raise premiums on everybody or some combination. (They cannot pay out more without taking in more and stay in business). If thier profit margines drop companies will move on to other business vice health insurance leaving the 'Average Joe' with less choices which cost more. That does not sound good for the Average Joe.

So again, your basic 'sending them off to war' comment was pretty misplaced and whether this helps the 'Average Joe' in fact remains to be seen.

Yup we haven't had a draft for decades but we did have two wars during the previous adminsitration that are currently still going on and have arguably been mishandled, inefficient, and detrimental to the USA and its allies. With health care reform we may get similar negative qualities but at least it gives hope for those who can't get insurance now and deals with the problem that is the heatlth care industry instead of creating conflicts overseas.

I'd like to point out that I had a family member who had to pay for her own insurance out-of-pocket due to being a small business owner. One company denied her for her hay fever. And yes, you read that right. She later found coverage, thankfully. But it underlines that healthcare insurers are/were under no obligation to cover anyone unless they thought they'd be profitable. And god forbid if you actually have something wrong with you.

Also, you can never really underestimate the selfishness of Americans at times. I've seen people complain about paying school taxes because they don't have any children...never mind the fact that they themselves attended public schools on someone else's dollar when they were young. "Gimme, gimme, gimme...wait, I have to pay for this?!?"

Enjoy glorious universal healthcare comrades! Be sure to make your voluntary donation to the Red Air Fleet Citizens! Proletarians of the world unite!




(you all should know, I'm just having a laugh here.)