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Well if you got second to last then you beat out one guy in the standings, is what I meant.

@Plautan and Ozzy
Yeah I agree, those guys were still learning the finer points of tactics. Not that we are tactical geniuses or anything, but our experience with the game allowed us to overcome meaner lists.

@WhiteRaven
Nice to meet you guys, and congratz on the win. We played next to you guys round three in the Team Tournament.

Man, I wish we would have pulled at least one soft match up, everyone of our games was really tough. It sounds like you guys earned the win though, so good on you.

See you guys next year, America needs to take that TT title back!

Orks are still good, for the reasons enumerated in the thread.

The only games I lost at Adepticon, out of 11, were 2 of my 3 against Orks. Both of those games were mostly lost due to my bad play against the vortex grenade and stasis missiles in Gladiator, but the Ork armies themselves were hard enough to put the players in the position to win.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:The thing with orks, as ive said before, is you have no tactical options. If you want to get across the table and kick ass they are the best army in the game. But that is all you will ever do. Assuming you dont bring some absurd army, like 9 koptas, 45 lootas, and shoota boyz.

In the fianl round of the team tournament, My team, "The A-Team" Fought the Dakkadakka detachment. Yakface and friends were running 45 lootas, 9 kans, 2 big meks, lots of koptas, and shoota boyz. I believe they got 5th overall. It was a really good list. We had soundly defeated almost all of our other opponents, but earned 0 points against that army.

extrenm(54) wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:The thing with orks, as ive said before, is you have no tactical options. If you want to get across the table and kick ass they are the best army in the game. But that is all you will ever do. Assuming you dont bring some absurd army, like 9 koptas, 45 lootas, and shoota boyz.

In the fianl round of the team tournament, My team, "The A-Team" Fought the Dakkadakka detachment. Yakface and friends were running 45 lootas, 9 kans, 2 big meks, lots of koptas, and shoota boyz. I believe they got 5th overall. It was a really good list. We had soundly defeated almost all of our other opponents, but earned 0 points against that army.

'ere now, we only had 15 Lootas each (for a total of 30/coalition). (Are you Horton or Charlie? edit: NM - I found your Gladiator batrep, which answered the question for me.)

But yeah - Lootas are the ultimate in versatile tools, as you can point them at any non-AV14 target and get useful results. Really, in a game that all about rolling dice (and forcing your enemies to roll saves), Ork shooting can be quite effective. I'm not sure why Mr. Shoggoth is so down on Lootas & Shootas.

NO no you guys misunderstood me. I wasnt saying lootas and shootas are bad units at all.

Just that the standard ork tactic is run across table and apply choppa to head with no tactical options.

UNLESS you run an army made up of nothing but lootas and shootas. Thats an exaggeration obviously. Absurd referring to it just not being that common.

Its certainly a nastier build, and I feel its nastier then choppy orks, but its absurd in the way blackmoors eldar are. Its just not a list you expect to see.

Ozymandias wrote:

The list was good, better than ours in fact, but I see people reading YTTH, building Stelek approved lists, then losing/drawing against inferior lists cause they haven't developed the proper tactics to use yet. It goes back to theory vs. reality and number crunching vs. experience.

That should go without saying. No list, no matter how good, will do the job alone. You have to know what your doing with it, its strengths and weaknesses.

I can for example, play my mech sisters list in my sleep. I know how it works, why it works, what it has trouble with and so on. I have the models painted for say, the immolator spam list, but I wont do as well with it as I would my old mech sisters because i havent played the immy spam list nearly as much as the mech sisters one.

And my ork lists I'm still trying to wrap my head around how to play, as its very different from playing sisters.

Yeah, that was the funny thing about our list. When it came down to it, it wasn't an assault list. The Kans and Dreds gave us some credible strength in assault, but the real strength of our list was in shooting. In my last game, against extrenm(54)'s teammates, the assaults were generally lost by me and Blackmoor. But our shooting was what really won the game for us. Shoota boyz, lootas, and kans can put some serious firepower down.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Reecius wrote:You should come to Adepticon just for fun if nothing else. It is a great time, I truly enjoyed the entire event.

And hey Shoogoth, at least you beat out one guy!

No I didnt

What, did he not show up or something?

No I thought he meant beat one guy in a game. I dunno how that last guy got less points then me. I threw my last game and still got 8 points.

Hi

I read earlier that the team tournament winners rely on soft scores. That is absolutely true, but I would point out that the Team Tournament winning orks had the highest battle score as well as excellent soft scores.

I would also concur with DD-1 it is the strength of Ork shooting that gave us the edge in most of our match-ups. Assault was certainly important for mop-up but shootas, lootas, and cannons apply lots of pressure on the enemy, disrupting armour and applying real pain for infantry within 24".

Cheers,
Carlos the Craven

Oh yeah, the Sons of Shatner won by a pretty dang large margin, they definitely earned the victory.

Although next most battle points, they were team pink and they had a girl on the team, so they get some serious respect points!

Thought I would share:

I threw the gauntlet at Stelek to play against my Orks (on Vassal if nothing else). He told me to suck less.

I responded with:
------------------------------------------
Stelek:


I don't think you got my message, so let me rephrase.


To my knowledge, you don't attend major events, you don't win competitions...you haven't credibility as an effective army list writer. People use your lists in major events and get curb-stomped.


I'm throwing down the gauntlet. I don't think you have the credibility to speak on orks, nor do I think you know what you're talking about, and I'm willing to prove it. Instead of telling me to suck less, come show me that I suck. Craft your list that you think will roflstomp orks...and PLAY against me. I'd take the opportunity to demonstrate how out of context your limited knowledge of orks and their capabilities are.


Again; Dashofpepper on Skype and Vassal and dakkadakka. And I was literal about putting your money where your mouth is. You've got a post offering to put your money where your mouth is for people to use your lists; I'd like to demonstrate a good old fashioned beatdown using the army you think sucks against one of your preferred lists.


If you're not tactically capable of presenting a challenge, feel free to nominate a champion to fight in your name, with your approval. And yeah - lets put some money on our game. Wink
---------------------------------------------------

I'm always willing to play someone who thinks Orks suck and personally educate them on their mistaken assumptions.

I never thought I would say this but Dash, you're my new hero!

I don't what this to be looked at as an unconditional defense of Stelek, but one doesn't have to be a good player to be a good list-builder.

Nobody dismisses the advice/strategy of a football coach based on how well the old guy can "bend it like Beckham" himself.

I don't think I've seen anyone challenge Stelek's Ork views, so good for you.

And you have a point, go look at the Ard boys Ork lists he puts up. Seriously? He's putting up crappy lists and saying they're the best Orks can get and people believe it when they're far from optimal.

One list was basically Ghaz, Grotsnik, and a ton of boys with Cybork bodies and thats all. Not to mention 4 squads were Ard boys, which is illegal since you can only have one squad of them. The funny thing is, he said all flamers would destroy them. Really? 120 Orks with 4+/5++. Yeah, they won't last one round of shooting lol. My point is, I really don't think he even knows what he's doing with Orks.

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

Steelmage99 wrote:I don't what this to be looked at as an unconditional defense of Stelek, but one doesn't have to be a good player to be a good list-builder.

Nobody dismisses the advice/strategy of a football coach based on how well the old guy can "bend it like Beckham" himself.

Not a great analogy - soccer has a physical skill/innate talent component that 40k lacks (in the absence of proven psychokinesis).

I don't believe you can be a good list-builder without being a good player, if your intent is that the lists you build actually get used to play the game.

OK.

Then compare to script-writing teachers or chess coaches instead.

Steelmage99 wrote:Then compare to script-writing teachers or chess coaches instead.

Chess coaches might be an okay analogy, but I'd imagine most of them are better-than-mediocre players, wouldn't you?

Janthkin wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Then compare to script-writing teachers or chess coaches instead.

Chess coaches might be an okay analogy, but I'd imagine most of them are better-than-mediocre players, wouldn't you?

The thing about most Chess coaches is that they used to play and KNOW the game. And, Steelmage, are you honestly suggesting that a script-writing teacher has never written a script? Or are you saying that they've never written one that's been used for a stage-production/movie? There's a severe difference there.

Stelek can occasionally write a good list, but from the tactics he suggests with those lists, he doesn't really seem to know the game and how it's really played.

Yes the Razorback spam list had all the tools to hand ol' me and Plat our asses, but they had no idea what they were doing at all. They were deathly afraid of my Demolisher, even though I don't think it killed a single model during the entire game. Actually, we only bagged their Land Speeders because everything else was protected by the damn Stormcaller. I broke alot of Razorback lascannons though. The demolisher stayed on the center objective and they didn't know what to do.

When it finally was the end of the game and we held the objective with a PCS and my Inquisitor (and Plat's Primaris), they finally charged GH's led by the Rune Priest in to wipe out the PCS. However, for some reason they didn't multicharge the Demolisher as well. That should have been a no brainer (in my mind anyway, attacking a stationary vehicle with marines with Krak grenades, powerfists and frost weapons, hello!). They also had a lone speeder left that could have them obliterated the Inquistor's squad with one blast from the heavy flamer, essentially winning the game, but instead they wiffed with a multimelta on the demolisher, and only charged the PCS.

So...poor decisions (Regardless of the strength of the list) led to a draw that should have been a major victory.

They were good guys though, and their army was painted very nicely. (Iron Hands "counts as" Space Wolves, with Iron Priests as Rune Priests.)

Snikkyd wrote:

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

Actually no....while I've put people in their place who claimed that I sucked, or that their ork list was the best in existence, I've never run into someone witless or stupid enough to make this particularly absurd claim.

And mods, before I get in trouble for Dakka Rule #1...being polite to each other....I'm not referring to a dakka member, nor someone who reads these boards. He doesn't count in that equation.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

Actually no....while I've put people in their place who claimed that I sucked, or that their ork list was the best in existence, I've never run into someone witless or stupid enough to make this particularly absurd claim.

And mods, before I get in trouble for Dakka Rule #1...being polite to each other....I'm not referring to a dakka member, nor someone who reads these boards. He doesn't count in that equation.

Just so you know, Rule #1 extends to current and former members. So calling Stelek names is technically a no-no.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

Actually no....while I've put people in their place who claimed that I sucked, or that their ork list was the best in existence, I've never run into someone witless or stupid enough to make this particularly absurd claim.

And mods, before I get in trouble for Dakka Rule #1...being polite to each other....I'm not referring to a dakka member, nor someone who reads these boards. He doesn't count in that equation.

Just so you know, Rule #1 extends to current and former members. So calling Stelek names is technically a no-no.

Just to be a rules lawyer, I didn't refer to Stelek or anyone else.

I just mentioned that I'd never met anyone who was witless or stupid enough to make that claim.

If there is someone on another website, or another blog or who is making claims I find that way....that's their business, but it isn't here.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

Actually no....while I've put people in their place who claimed that I sucked, or that their ork list was the best in existence, I've never run into someone witless or stupid enough to make this particularly absurd claim.

And mods, before I get in trouble for Dakka Rule #1...being polite to each other....I'm not referring to a dakka member, nor someone who reads these boards. He doesn't count in that equation.

Just so you know, Rule #1 extends to current and former members. So calling Stelek names is technically a no-no.

Just to be a rules lawyer, I didn't refer to Stelek or anyone else.

I just mentioned that I'd never met anyone who was witless or stupid enough to make that claim.

If there is someone on another website, or another blog or who is making claims I find that way....that's their business, but it isn't here.

Just making sure we toe the party line.

Dash........You rule!!!

Haha, that was awesome!

But the person in question never, ever takes up the challenege, he hides under his bridge in Utah like a Troll and just hurls insults at people, and makes claims he doesn't back up.

I hope he is a nice guy in person because, wow, has he been such an ass to so many people on line. He is to the point now where he can't go to a big tournament for fear of getting pimp slapped on sight by so many people out there whom he has insulted/pissed off/etc.

The sad thing is that he does have good knowledge of the game. If he was less of a monstrous douche bag he would be accepted by the community and more people would listen to him. He has just been so unnecessarily rude to so many people that he's dug himself a big pit to stew in.

Edited to follow Dakka protocol! Haha.

I'm just curious..

Who is this Stelek fellow that seems to come up a lot in recent forum threads. I'm kinda curious to see his "Website" too, or the "Website which shall not be named".

Also, what is the Vassal and YTTC?

It sounds like the Vassal is a place where you can play-test 40k Armies online. If so, that's something I would be very interested in. Can someone link me to that site?

http://yesthetruthhhurts.com

It's his blog and it has good content a lot of the time... it's just that sometimes (like right now), instead of being about 40k it's about some personal vendetta between him and Belloflostsouls. Sigh.

He posts a lot of good quality stuff and seems willing to help almost anoyne that asks, but like Reecius said, diplomacy is NOT his strong suite so whenever someone disagrees or he finds what they say stupid, well... :[

As for Vassal it's a program that lets you play a ton of different boardgames online, as long as you have the right modules downloaded. The 40k modules were shut down by GW, but you can still find them via google and the servers are still running as the main Vassal client was not shut down. There's just no official website for them, and posting direct links to the module is against Dakka's rules I think.

Snikkyd wrote:I don't think I've seen anyone challenge Stelek's Ork views, so good for you.

And you have a point, go look at the Ard boys Ork lists he puts up. Seriously? He's putting up crappy lists and saying they're the best Orks can get and people believe it when they're far from optimal.

One list was basically Ghaz, Grotsnik, and a ton of boys with Cybork bodies and thats all. Not to mention 4 squads were Ard boys, which is illegal since you can only have one squad of them. The funny thing is, he said all flamers would destroy them. Really? 120 Orks with 4+/5++. Yeah, they won't last one round of shooting lol. My point is, I really don't think he even knows what he's doing with Orks.

Out of interest Dash, have you put people in their place before when they claim Orks suck?

To be fair, the cybork army wasn't something he actually said was good. It was fullfilling some weird criteria or something, I dunno - someone requested a pure horde army or some such.

Its not illegal to link to them and there's 50,000 threads about Vassal around here, with links, strategies, tournament announcements on Vassal, vassal guides....

Just google Vassal 40k. MIniwargaming.

Dashofpepper wrote:You have to be quite skilled to win with Orks because they have glaring weaknesses that it takes a good general to circumvent.

As opposed to IG and certain spacewolf builds, which are pretty much easy street.

As a guard player from the ancient times long have my ears waited to such words.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:Thought I would share:

I threw the gauntlet at Stelek to play against my Orks (on Vassal if nothing else). He told me to suck less.

I responded with:
------------------------------------------
Stelek:


I don't think you got my message, so let me rephrase.


To my knowledge, you don't attend major events, you don't win competitions...you haven't credibility as an effective army list writer. People use your lists in major events and get curb-stomped.


I'm throwing down the gauntlet. I don't think you have the credibility to speak on orks, nor do I think you know what you're talking about, and I'm willing to prove it. Instead of telling me to suck less, come show me that I suck. Craft your list that you think will roflstomp orks...and PLAY against me. I'd take the opportunity to demonstrate how out of context your limited knowledge of orks and their capabilities are.


Again; Dashofpepper on Skype and Vassal and dakkadakka. And I was literal about putting your money where your mouth is. You've got a post offering to put your money where your mouth is for people to use your lists; I'd like to demonstrate a good old fashioned beatdown using the army you think sucks against one of your preferred lists.


If you're not tactically capable of presenting a challenge, feel free to nominate a champion to fight in your name, with your approval. And yeah - lets put some money on our game. Wink
---------------------------------------------------

I'm always willing to play someone who thinks Orks suck and personally educate them on their mistaken assumptions.

Aww..


And for folks who are curious, here's the relevant Link