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sebster wrote:Meanwhile, I read the wargaming posts a lot more than post there. There's a lot of dudes who get in first with better answers than mine, so I'm typically happy to just read. But I will tell you you can talk about wargaming all day and never really learn anything about the person. You need to see people talk about a range of topics to really build a community, and I for one and am always much more attentive of the posts of off-topic regulars when I see them in other parts of the board.

This is basically how I end up using Dakka, as someone else will usually have a better answer than me elsewhere in the forums. I can chime in occasionally, but of the forums I frequent, there are usually complete discussions without need of my input.

I've also got a problem with the idea certain topics are to blame for the behaviour of members. People should be responsible for their posts, and if they can't debate an issue without getting pissy then they're at fault, not the issue.

It does seem the logical option to simply avoid subjects that bring the worst of you into the forums, but I have a feeling many people simply don't spend much time thinking about that type of approach.

If the OT was scrapped I wouldn't post here anymore, in all likelihood. Like several other users, I read the other sections of the site but don't feel the need to contribute that often, although I will get around to posting pics of my Bloodaxe army at some point, honest! I would just come here to read the articles if the OT was scrapped, which I hope it isn't - the community here is the main thing that attracted me to the site, and definitely the thing which keeps me coming back. I like finding out what most of you think about random topics, and I think the OT offers a compelling insight into the minds and lives of the average wargamer.
In my personal opinion, all the MODs need to do to sort out the OT is permanently ban certain people who have no idea of how to conduct themselves in polite society, and many of the OT's problems would disappear overnight. It's that simple.

The OT is great (even though I don't read a lot of the threads in there as I am not particularly interested). I like to read varied topics when I am at work, and enjoy the fact that I can get random interest threads and some more serious debate threads in the same place as I get tips and tricks for painting and modelling.

If Dakka was models and rules only - I don't know how long I would stay or how much I would frequent it. As much as Dakka has a big modelling and painting community, part of that community is the extra formus where people can socalise "outside" of painting and modelling.

If you take that away, I am not sure how many people would stick around anything like as much as they currently do, or even at all.

And as has been said, there are a number of people who seem to get threads into trouble almost constantly. Restricting them from accessing any kind of "debate" forum will almost certainly lead to a better place for everyone else.

let me get this right- you guys won't stick around a gaming forum if it is just about gaming?

lol

Can someone please clarify - as far as I was aware the politics/religion was voted on being scrapped and not the OT furum as a whole. Yet it seems to be cropping up here that the forum is threatened.

Which is it please?

Just the P/R discussion.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:let me get this right- you guys won't stick around a gaming forum if it is just about gaming?

I would be far less inclined to spend my time here. I joined Dakka over a number of other wargaming sites because of how I saw the community and the general positive way it acted. I stayed in part because of that, and also because there was more to the community than wargaming. I joined several other wargaming sites too, but have not even visited them for ages. In part because of the community, but also in part to the fact that I have now invested myself in Dakka and don't particularly want to go anywhere else for my wargaming and social forum interaction.

I would say that about 70% of my time is spent on this forum in non-modelling sections, even if my post breakdown does not reveal this (I tend to post a fair bit in PLogs and so on, but browse and post in OT all day while I am at work). I do look at a lot of the PLogs and suchlike at work, but only because I look at them in between OT's - my work often blocks the images in the threads, so I have to wait until I am at home to look at people's stuff).

I rather infrequently look in YMDC when a topic flashes up that I am interested in. I will even more rarely post a reply in there.

If you removed part of the OT which I am interested in (the political and religous debates), you would be left with all the other threads in OT which I find rather boring for the most part. If that were the case, I would be less inclined to sit in Dakka all day, and move on somewhere else.

reds8n wrote: Just the P/R discussion.

Eventually, something else will be banned from discussion in the OT forum; it so happens that religion and politics are two of the most heatedly debated subjects, especially when it comes to the distancing of opposite spectrum pundits and beliefs. These extreme opposites clash.

Banning the ability to post political and religious content in OT means that a bar is set. Anything reaching the fervor or venom that people can display for a subject such as politics and religion will likewise be scrutinized for ostracism from this forum.

Keep in mind that we did not get this far without the support of those who could not moderate their passions to the point of civility, but choose to step further into barbaric attacks upon one another and what they believed.

Like the analogy of a person's home; that person who owns the home can kick out offensive guests. As guests, we must respect the rules of that person's house. If not, we are not allowed back in.

That the P/R debates have now made us question the wisdom of having such debates is a testament to our own constraint.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Can someone please clarify - as far as I was aware the politics/religion was voted on being scrapped and not the OT furum as a whole. Yet it seems to be cropping up here that the forum is threatened.

Which is it please?

Ah, yes. There was the poll to remove religion/political from OT discussions, and then some people feared that the rest of the OT forum would be sent with it sometime in the future.

The OT forum is for two things in my eyes; firstly it is for having a laugh with my fellow Dakkites as friends do and secondly it is for discussing things that matter (read as P&R) with my fellow Dakkites, because I feel we are a community and a community without laughter or talking about what matters is just hollow.
We are a community of enthusiasts first and foremost, wargaming is just the thing that brings us together.

Save the OT!

To be perfectly honest with you, I come to Dakka to actually read and post about gaming. To ban politics and religion would be perfectly fine with me. If you want the site to be game themed then maybe an emphasis on gaming is not a bad thing.

I never come here looking for a discussion on Obama, abortion, the war on terrorism, or offshore drilling. It just pops up in the Recent Threads list, I get sucked in and then end up reading some rant (by a snot nosed kid that barely has the gak scraped out of his ears let alone has a firm grasp on history) and then I lose an hour because I can't let nonsense go unchallenged.

Politics and Religion have as much a place on a gaming forum as they do at a dinner party. Only boorish people bring up the topics and they are sure to incite heated discussions because most folks have their minds made up on such things already.

I rarely if EVER see the usual suspects in OT out in the gaming areas of Dakka. If P/R does get banned that will impact the gaming discussions zero and if it makes it easier on the mods it's a net gain.

Macht Nicht. Hammer away.

I've been offline for a while, but OT is one of my favourite fora on Dakka, though in the past I've taken breaks from it.
I'm actually shocked that it upsets people enough that they want it removed! I definitely feel that I "know" the OT regulars better than posters on other fora, and to be honest, the variance in post quality is pretty much the same as the tactics and modelling threads (which I also enjoy reading).
The fact that Dakka has such a vigorous OT section is a good thing to me.
That said, if Yakface were to decide to remove OT or ban certain types of discussions, I wouldn't throw a strop. His playpen, he gets to make the rules.

ShumaGorath wrote: Not to name names, but if posters who act similar to fateweaver and the green git were simply disallowed from discussing politics the threads themselves would be conducted far more civilly.

Lol.

WarOne wrote:

reds8n wrote: Just the P/R discussion.

Eventually, something else will be banned from discussion in the OT forum; it so happens that religion and politics are two of the most heatedly debated subjects, especially when it comes to the distancing of opposite spectrum pundits and beliefs. These extreme opposites clash.

Banning the ability to post political and religious content in OT means that a bar is set. Anything reaching the fervor or venom that people can display for a subject such as politics and religion will likewise be scrutinized for ostracism from this forum.

Keep in mind that we did not get this far without the support of those who could not moderate their passions to the point of civility, but choose to step further into barbaric attacks upon one another and what they believed.

Like the analogy of a person's home; that person who owns the home can kick out offensive guests. As guests, we must respect the rules of that person's house. If not, we are not allowed back in.

That the P/R debates have now made us question the wisdom of having such debates is a testament to our own constraint.

The difficulty of course is that you may view the "discussions" on Dakka about religion as debates. With a verry very very few exceptions, I view them as attacks.

Oh yeah on topic if they ban the OT forum im leaving as well. I can read tactics on any number of websites, ive gotten rather fond of the debates on the OT, even with the people i frequently disagree with.

If you dont like a wee bit of verbal mudslinging, then dont look at the OT. Its simple isnt it?

But banning it.. thats a big no no no Ayatollah. If that happens i will vote with my feet and delete my account.

I say leave it be. Put on a helmet, cinch up your waders, and grow a thicker skin. If you don't like it, don't bother looking at it, if you choose to look at then that's your own personal problem. If you get your delicate little feelings hurt just remember, you clicked the link.

Tyyr wrote:I say leave it be. Put on a helmet, cinch up your waders, and grow a thicker skin. If you don't like it, don't bother looking at it, if you choose to look at then that's your own personal problem. If you get your delicate little feelings hurt just remember, you clicked the link.

Amen brother. Most of the complaints tend to come from the people who wade in determined to "defend" their friends without having any form of facts or insight on the issues.

Tyyr wrote:I say leave it be. Put on a helmet, cinch up your waders, and grow a thicker skin. If you don't like it, don't bother looking at it, if you choose to look at then that's your own personal problem. If you get your delicate little feelings hurt just remember, you clicked the link.

OFT, its like all the slack jawed pansies who write angry letters in to channel 4. Isnt it easier just to change channel? I HATE the way everyone has to play the hurt feelings card all the time.

If you dont like OT, dont go near it. Its your bloody mouse, i dont see the big deal...

But if you like the verbal warfare then polish your boots up and wade into the fray! Chocks away!

Kanluwen wrote: Most of the complaints tend to come from the people who wade in determined to "defend" their friends .

..are you sure about that ?

In my opinion, Red? Yes.

Kanluwen wrote:In my opinion, Red? Yes.

No offence kanluwen but im pretty sure Red (who is a mod) has a better idea of the complaints, reports and alerts made than you do.

..and I'm afraid you'd be wrong.

When the rows happen, we generally all know whodunnit.
Some people lack tact and manners, I've been guilty myself after a bad day. I think through getting to know people here I've gotten a lot milder (though possibly more boring too ).

corpsesarefun wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:In my opinion, Red? Yes.

No offence kanluwen but im pretty sure Red (who is a mod) has a better idea of the complaints, reports and alerts made than you do.

Hence the "opinion" statement?
I've noticed that the political threads tend to get reports when certain individuals begin posting in there and trying to white knight it up. I can't say regarding reports since y'know...I'm not a mod.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bah! Just realized I was using the wrong word.

Not "reports", but we get posts from mods telling us that there are reports once the white knights start showing up.

Heck, whats the point of the Off-Topic being the dungean if you ban the torture machines.

Just to clarify :

When an alert is made we see who made it and, hopefully, their reasoning behind it ( seriously add that, it makes it much easier to prioritise when there's multiple ones or things going on ). Not every alert triggers "action" ( which sounds rather grandiose when one puts it like that eh ? ) automatically and we do bear things like context and the like when we decided what, if anything, to do.

reds8n wrote:Just to clarify :

When an alert is made we see who made it and, hopefully, their reasoning behind it ( seriously add that, it makes it much easier to prioritise when there's multiple ones or things going on ). Not every alert triggers "action" ( which sounds rather grandiose when one puts it like that eh ? ) automatically and we do bear things like context and the like when we decided what, if anything, to do.

Oh you guys must love me my reports are either "spambot" or "thread necro" with nothing else said

I very much enjoy the OT forum, and have found more than one of the threads enlightening, even when it gets a bit abrasive. That being said, I've certainly never been offended by a thread I didn't walk into. A little responsible browsing ought to allow you to avoid anything that's too close to home.

Are there that many more personal attacks in the OT forum than in YMTC? I've seen some bitter, bitter fights break out over there, and had my hackles raised many more times in that forum. There may be more substance to the arguments in the OT forum, but I don't think it gets more vicious in here.

I think it keeps all of the political and religious content focused- if it weren't here, it might get spilled over into other forums. I can see the trolls now- 'This army list is more ineffective than (political figure or event)!'. We don't see that because there is an outlet for it.

Perhaps you need a nastier section for explosive topics- 'The Minefield', or 'The Trenches'. Where threads go when the bulets start flying, or we start playing fire in a dynamite factory. That would be extreme, but preferable to destroying the entire section.

That is great Mr. Corpsesarefun let's us know what's going on and all that.

It's just every now and again we get these alerts and you click on the offending post .... and then spend 10 minutes or so trying to work out what is supposedly wrong with the flagged post. Sure sometimes it's obvious but every now and again...

anyway [/hijack]

Lord-Loss wrote:Heck, whats the point of the Off-Topic being the dungean if you ban the torture machines.

You have to respect that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote: That is great Mr. Corpsesarefun let's us know what's going on and all that.

It's just every now and again we get these alerts and you click on the offending post .... and then spend 10 minutes or so trying to work out what is supposedly wrong with the flagged post. Sure sometimes it's obvious but every now and again...

anyway [/hijack]

reddy's still young and caring. When you're old and bitter like me, you don't care enough to spend 10 minutes, you just start randomly banning people...

I think that OT should just be turned into a soapbox for me to post my highly refined and researched opinions. There will be no discussion, just me posting and everyone basking in the opulence of my honeyed words.