Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Soladrin wrote:

dogma wrote:I was under the impression that European racism had moved more towards an anti-Arab sort of paradigm. Though I suppose that may just be convenience masking what is really a pro-white, or nationalist agenda.

No, it's anti all non whites as it's always been. Arabian countries and such are just the main issue of the world at the moment, so it's only logical that they start focusing on that.

In the UK there is a lot of anti-Pole and anti-Eastern European sentiment. You can't call that racism when it comes from white people, though I suppose you can when it comes from Sikhs and Pakistanis.

What it shows is that the focus of resentment is with the settled community against new incomers during a time of economic stress.

Of course there is normal racism too.

That can be racism, can't it?

An American hating Brits is racism, even if both are white, isn't it?

Emperors Faithful wrote:That can be racism, can't it?

An American hating Brits is racism, even if both are white, isn't it?

I suppose it would depend on the ethnicity of the American. More likely it is either bigotry or prejudice in your hypothetical situation. I know racism is often used as a catch-all many times, but it doesn't actually cover everything.

Racism is normally understood to be the assumption that different skin colours indicate different levels of mental and physical ability, and culture. The racist naturally assumes his own skin colour is the best, so this validates despising people of other, 'lower' skin colourations.

From that viewpoint, it is nonsense for a white person to be racist against white people, or for a brown person to be racist against brown people.

In the UK however, we have a lot of people who aren't white. In the areas where they are settled with 'native' white people, they are as against the newcomer east Europeans and against newcomers from India/Pakistan/Somalia/Iraq as the white people.

My point is that a lot of the anti-immigration feeling is not racism as such, it is a resentment of newcomers, based on the idea that they are taking people's jobs and social security benefits.

Are you sure it's skin colour that defines race? Isn't a Pole a different race from an Anglo-Saxxon?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Are you sure it's skin colour that defines race? Isn't a Pole a different race from an Anglo-Saxxon?

It depends on how much credence people give to antique race theory.

Examined from the viewpoint of modern genetics, earlier theories about race -- anglo-saxons, normans, slavs, nordics and so on -- different head shapes and sizes, larger brains and all that -- are nonsense.

People may well have genuinely believed it in Victorian times or the mid-20th century, but it has become unsupportable in the light of modern knowledge. There isn't such as thing as race except as a cultural concept.

Consider that a large population of Poles has lived in the UK since WW2, and never been resented until more of them arrived in the past 10-15 years.

Orkeosaurus wrote:It started out with opposition to taxes. Then to spending. Then to the healthcare bill? They keep moving. Gun rights aren't actually what it's about, they just sort of pop up randomly, like they do in a post made by Fateweaver.

Interesting article. However what I would ask is this: would this author, if faced with a similar reversal that reflected poorly on the way black people were acting in the real world, claim that the inverse of the situation is incomparable on account of black people being a minority, who have been discriminated against historically, and so forth? Because that's usually what I hear from those defending, say, scholarships being given only to black people.

Guns? Did someone just send me the Fate signal? The problem with the Tea Party as presented is that most of the stories (not all) show the Tea Partiers as racist rednecks who want to violently overthrow the government (got to love MSNBC and John Stewart for presenting factual information).

Tea Party is against the government becoming too big, too powerful and too intrusive. All these taxes? Too intrusive. Trying to feth with the 2nd Amendment? Too intrusive and trying to overstep it's power. Forcing people to do something that should be left to the States and the decisions of the people, ie healthcare? Too intrusive, too powerful and too big. The Constitution was penned to limit government control, to tell the people in control "back the feth off, you are only as powerful as we are". The leftist, especially the ones that are part of Obamanation, are trying very hard to stretch the Constitution or even over step it. Forcing healthcare down our throats when the majority of the US didn't want it? Overstepping their authority. Regulating guns and or trying to ban certain guns (which given time will end up a banning of all guns from civilians) is the government overstepping it's power.

Arizona and 2 other states have it right. No need for a permit to own or buy a gun in that state. You just walk into Gander Mountain or Walmart or anywhere else that sells guns in those states and you buy one. In essence those 3 states have given the middle finger to big brother and are saying "feth you, we don't need you telling us what's good or bad for us." Same goes for the immigration law currently passed. Good on her for having the cajones to sign that bill into law.

As to the comment "if the tea party were black". Does the author of that article not see for his own eyes (and obviously some of you) see that there are quite a few blacks at Tea Party rallies. Of course they are called "Uncle Toms" by the left (and we are the racist ones how ) and sellouts and what not because according to most leftists if you are black you should be liberal (again, a racist attitude that is somehow ignored by the left).

But keep blanketing Tea Partiers as racist rednecks (funny how not many black people are rednecks and how you see black people at a gathering of racist white rednecks cleverly disguised as a movement to halt the government in it's tracks) and I'll keep blanketing all liberals as pot-smoking hippies who want the entire world to hold hands and sing kumbaya because after all I've seen enough video clips of DNC rallies to be able to back up my "pot smoking hippy" stance.

Guns? Did someone just send me the Fate signal? The problem with the Tea Party as presented is that most of the stories (not all) show the Tea Partiers as racist rednecks who want to violently overthrow the government (got to love MSNBC and John Stewart for presenting factual information).

Interestingly enough on wednesday jon stuarts guest was a guy who wrote a rather praising book on the tea party and half of his entire show was about how the media likes to categorize and label movements based on what sells best rather than the reality.

But hey, it's not like you ever know what you're talking about.

Tea Party is against the government becoming too big, too powerful and too intrusive. All these taxes? Too intrusive. Trying to feth with the 2nd Amendment? Too intrusive and trying to overstep it's power. Forcing people to do something that should be left to the States and the decisions of the people, ie healthcare? Too intrusive, too powerful and too big. The Constitution was penned to limit government control, to tell the people in control "back the feth off, you are only as powerful as we are". The leftist, especially the ones that are part of Obamanation, are trying very hard to stretch the Constitution or even over step it. Forcing healthcare down our throats when the majority of the US didn't want it? Overstepping their authority. Regulating guns and or trying to ban certain guns (which given time will end up a banning of all guns from civilians) is the government overstepping it's power.

It's a constitutionalist movement comprised largely of aging white males with conservative leaning viewpoints. It's basically populist constitutionalism, meaning fairly stupid constitutionalism. Note how they do not take issue with overseas or military prisons and tribunals for civilian police matters, and they certainly didn't care about the unconstitutional method by which we declared war in afghanistan (exercising military force as a police action is unconstitutional). I'm just going to ignore the part of your post that was an anti leftist rant with little grasp of reality.

As to the comment "if the tea party were black". Does the author of that article not see for his own eyes (and obviously some of you) see that there are quite a few blacks at Tea Party rallies. Of course they are called "Uncle Toms" by the left (and we are the racist ones how ) and sellouts and what not because according to most leftists if you are black you should be liberal (again, a racist attitude that is somehow ignored by the left).

I don't think you have been going to the same tea parties everyone else has.



I don't see any black people in there. Or seemingly any minority at all.

But keep blanketing Tea Partiers as racist rednecks (funny how not many black people are rednecks and how you see black people at a gathering of racist white rednecks cleverly disguised as a movement to halt the government in it's tracks) and I'll keep blanketing all liberals as pot-smoking hippies who want the entire world to hold hands and sing kumbaya because after all I've seen enough video clips of DNC rallies to be able to back up my "pot smoking hippy" stance.

But you've always do that. You didn't start doing it in response to something. It's what you do instead of making factually correct or logical/sensible arguments.

bottom left corner...black man.


Black Tea Party supporter.


Since we seem to be playing "Where's Waldo?" I present this picture of a DNC rally. Find me a black man/woman or any non-caucasian peoples in this photo.


If you really want to pick and choose from 1'000's of pics on Google showing Tea Party rallies and pick one that show's no black person at all when I can show you pics of black people at Tea Party rallies, can link you to sites with conservative blacks and show you footage of conservative black people speaking at tea party rallies then I refuse to go around with you on the subject. It was either you or guitardian who gave me a 7 day vacation and I really don't want to be forced off here for a month or forever just because you refuse to pull your head out your backside and see other peoples viewpoints.

You refuse to see what the Tea Party is about for yourself, you only see what MSNBC wants you to see. JS does on occasion attack the left but he is still as liberal as the next liberal so me using JS as an example is as valid as your 1 pic out of thousands showing a protest rally that has no black person (and there probably were some, im sure your eyes can't pic them out of the blurred out heads going way off into the distance).

You have been brainwashed to not see the wrong the government is doing so I can't convince you without subjecting you to extensive deprogramming and honestly I couldn't stand to be in your presence long enough to go through with that.

So that is all I'm going to say on the matter. Since you think it's okay for the government to overstep it's bounds regarding the Constitution (which does not protect non-citizens at all) then I have nothing further to say to you. I hope if this country erupts into another civil war "big brother" keeps you safe but I doubt "big brother" would be able to. I don't wish you dead Shuma so I hope "big brother" takes care of you but realize that if "big brother" oversteps his authority he'll get beaten like a red-headed stepchild and if that day comes I'll be the first to lay the switch to "his" backside.

Good day gentleman.


*Pst Shuma. Relook at your pic, ye expert of Where's Waldo? Center of the pic I spot 2 Black men, one under the black sign and one a little to the front and on his right (your left). That isn't shadows darkening their skin. Nice try though.

Gold Star.

It's a constitutionalist movement comprised largely of aging white males with conservative leaning viewpoints. It's basically populist constitutionalism, meaning fairly stupid constitutionalism. Note how they do not take issue with overseas or military prisons and tribunals for civilian police matters, and they certainly didn't care about the unconstitutional method by which we declared war in afghanistan (exercising military force as a police action is unconstitutional). I'm just going to ignore the part of your post that was an anti leftist rant with little grasp of reality.

Can you explain this a little more?

Don't get him started.

He is saying that somehow the Constitution applies to foreigners and illegals. Bill of Rights MIGHT apply to foreigners and illegals but the Constitution sure as hell doesn't.

bottom left corner...black man.

That looks like a white dude with a tan and micheal steele doesn't count.

If you really want to pick and choose from 1'000's of pics on Google showing Tea Party rallies and pick one that show's no black person at all when I can show you pics of black people at Tea Party rallies, can link you to sites with conservative blacks and show you footage of conservative black people speaking at tea party rallies then I refuse to go around with you on the subject. It was either you or guitardian who gave me a 7 day vacation and I really don't want to be forced off here for a month or forever just because you refuse to pull your head out your backside and see other peoples viewpoints.

One in ten people in america is black. Perhaps one in 200 in the tea parties are. It's not a representative movement. You're the one that said you see "Quite a few black people" at the rallies. Quite a few doesn't mean "Three token black dudes in a rally over 2000 people".

You refuse to see what the Tea Party is about for yourself, you only see what MSNBC wants you to see. JS does on occasion attack the left but he is still as liberal as the next liberal so me using JS as an example is as valid as your 1 pic out of thousands showing a protest rally that has no black person (and there probably were some, im sure your eyes can't pic them out of the blurred out heads going way off into the distance).

It was the first pic I found, but you didn't exactly do a good job defending your point with a tan white dude and micheal gosh darn steel.

o that is all I'm going to say on the matter. Since you think it's okay for the government to overstep it's bounds regarding the Constitution (which does not protect non-citizens at all) then I have nothing further to say to you.

No, you have nothing further to say to me because you're belligerent and incredibly ill informed and you've danced this dance with me before. It never turns out well.

Can you explain this a little more?

Which part? Constitutionalism, populism, police actions, or the part about the prisons?

He is saying that somehow the Constitution applies to foreigners and illegals. Bill of Rights MIGHT apply to foreigners and illegals but the Constitution sure as hell doesn't.

Nope, but wiretapping wasn't a foreigner issue. Nor was the unconstitutional ad hoc declaration of war as a police action in afghanistan, and a dozen other wars. Nor were hundreds of other things conservatives pulled. This is just a smoke and mirrors issue so that misinformed or downright idiotic tools can complain about liberals and an economic situation that the vast majority of them simply do not understand.

Shuma, how much do you know about how we took over Afghanistan? Which dozens of wars are you referring to?

I'd like to hear what you mean about police actions and the prisons.

Look again Shuma. That is NOT a tan. He's not as black as a true south african Negro but that sure as hell isn't a tan.

People suspected of communicating with terrorists had their phones tapped. Duh. As it should be.

As far as Afghan I don't see PresO doing much about it. Withdrawing troops by August. It hasn't even started yet and it's going to take longer than 4 months.

You are the ill-informed one Shuma. Enjoy your nice cushy middle class life as "big brother" grows bigger and more powerful. "Ignorance is bliss" is a phrase that you should take to heart Shuma. It should be your moniker. Afterall, "big brother" has your best interest at heart even if it steps on the interests of what this country is based on it's all good in the end, isn't it?

Typical leftist entitlement attitude.

I don't see any black people in there. Or seemingly any minority at all.

Then you are as blind as usual, Shuma. Front row center between the guy looking away from the camera and the guy with crossed arms and glasses...TWO obvious Black men.

As far as the "what if" scenario goes I'll rebut.

What if whites and an all-white beauty pageant, TV station, National organization for the "advancement" of non-colored people, white's-only scholarships...etc.


Yeah, "white privilege" sure. They should protest in the streets, they probably could use a new TV.

A "OWNED" is required here.

No, they have tans.

Let Shuma live in his world where conservatives are nothing but white; liberals are mixed (which I will give them that but only because minorities are attracted to the promise of sucking off the system even more due to liberal policies) and NOT racist and that anyone wanting to uphold the Constitution is a redneck, gun-toting white supremacist.

It's so awesome that 56 men over 200 years ago lost all they had to stand up to their British overlords but that means nothing to people who think the government should be bigger and more intrusive.

I'm done here.

Did you ever start? XD

Forgoing the pictures, the numbers of African Americans involved in the Tea Party is so small as to be insignificant, other then possible tokenism arguments. If it starts to come even slightly close to demographics (10 to 1 or so) then you might have something. As it is, the numbers don't lie about it being almost entirely a white movement.

Actually, I only spot one. (guy with his hands in pockets/jacket, behind baldie in glasses)

Out of three pictures, I only spot uno African American. It certainly doesn't look like it's representative of the minorites at all. But anyway, who am I kidding? To me this is just another example of the US sensationalisng thier polotics between liberals and conservatives. I really can't believe you two get so heated about fething polotics of all things. Do you see aussies getting so wound up about these things? No, here the common man has a more "who gives feth?" attitude towards polotics. We don't demonize one side or beatify the other. Short of thier polocies on the posobility of getting into a war with China/NZ, I really couldn't give a damn about either of thier polocies. Personally, I look at the guy. Are they a good leader, which one is slightly more interested in the wellfare of our country than covering his backside than the other?

Okay, that's enough political input from me for one day. (Not that it was useful or anything ) BTW, Fate, nice "This is my Rifle, this is my Gun" speech.

Don't take this the wrong way EF, but it is hard to take your opinion on politics seriously when you can't even spell the word correctly. Once is a typo, but every time, not so much.

Politics can be seen as important since they involve the following: what your laws are, how they are enforced, your rights, what kind and what quality the infrastructure of your community is, ect ect.

I know, but don't forget, I'm an Aussie. I'm never going to be helpful in a polotical debate.

Is it a problem that it is an almost entirely white movement? Does that invalidate it somehow? I'd imagine that the stances of the people within invalidate it, not their members ethnicity. When white people get together is that bad? Are we not allowed to do stuff anymore just because we are white?

Im just glad these fethers are moving away from social issues and moving back towards constitutional ones, even if its viewed with blinders. Social Issues are the bane of human existence.

Besides, I think my spelling improved in the last sentence.

It's hard, no matter what side of the fence you are on, to understand US politics as an outsider.

Your country is the way it is. Sure you can compare it to us and ask "what's the big deal?" but you will never begin to understand.

On the flip side of things I'd guess that the majority of people at DNC rallies are minorty. Afterall, they have the most to gain from liberal policies (well, that and most don't give a flying feth about this countries past, they just want free handouts).

The article asks what if the Tea party was black. Apparently it is SOMEWHAT black, it's not ALL white. Not to mention not every Tea Party rally has pics up on google and most pics were taken of the same rallies (TP rally in washington has dozens upon dozens of photos for just that ONE rally).

But I digress. I once again brought forth good reasons for how I feel and a certain someone once again has to attack me.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Is it a problem that it is an almost entirely white movement?

If you ignore history as well as the present condition of different groups I suppose it isn't. It isn't really even a issue of racism necessarily, but of socio-economic factors and other exciting group dynamics at play. It also is a problem, to an extent, because it highlights the narrow appeal to certain pseudo privileged classes.

Fateweaver, you're really playing the 'token black guy' card for all it's worth aren't you? This movement looks pretty much white. It certainly isn't a black movement, which is what the article was raising the question in regards to.

Fateweaver wrote:

I'm done here.

You're leaving dakka? Please, can i get your hat and coat, sir and show you precisely where the 'don't let the door hit you on the way out' door is!

I've lived lots of different places, and the place blacks have it the worst is the south (obviously), mexicans (and other latinos) have it bad pretty much everywhere unless they have taken it over (like Miami), Asians do well (especially in Hawaii, but dont get me started on 'racism' in Hawaii), and in all of these places with minorities alot of people dont realize that right alongside the minorities there are white people. The term 'white trash' is there for a reason, we have uneducated, poor, drug addicted, welfare using melon-fethers too. You just dont hear about them, because no one cares about them either. You ever been to Walmart on payday?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Fateweaver, you're really playing the 'token black guy' card for all it's worth aren't you? This movement looks pretty much white. It certainly isn't a black movement, which is what the article was raising the question in regards to.

Neither is the DNC.

But please, keep playing the "Tea party is a bunch of racist, redneck anti-government gun toters" card.