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wtf are fast units gonna do?if you put something like a russ on one end, with armor 13 on the side, and have the other end of your chimera line touching the board edge, your not getting any side armor... ever. If you are talking about getting behind it, then good luck to you.

valks are such much worse than chimera spam... each costs 3x the cost of a chimera, units can't fire from inside, and its far more vulnerable to shooting (everything can see it)... I'd face an air cav list any day of the week over a chimera spam list.

So if space marines and their 3+ save is broken surely necrons and their 3+ save and we will be back rule is even worse.

@Honoersstodnt:

You are misinformed, you can still get side armor even if you can't see it...

yea, but then he gets a 3+ cover save... which in most cases makes it more productive to shoot at the front armor.

Sanctjud wrote:It's not.
It relies heavily on fortune, and these days you can either stop the fortune or unleash so much dakka or force multipliers that it evens out.

It is a trick pony list now.

:<

Took me sooooo long to convert...

Hehe yeah, it's funny to think that something that was getting spammed in tournaments only... 6 months ago(?) is considered average today.

My vote for overpowered goes to most things from the new Bangles codex, although to be fair that distinction would be going toward whoever had the newest codex if precendence is anything to go by. Power creep and all.

Still, magical flying psychic Dreadnoughts. Goddamn you Ward.

Honersstodnt wrote:wtf are fast units gonna do?if you put something like a russ on one end, with armor 13 on the side, and have the other end of your chimera line touching the board edge, your not getting any side armor... ever. If you are talking about getting behind it, then good luck to you.

Confused - so you only have entirely foot slogging units, with no jet bikes / skimmers / deep striking units / etc?

If so then, as I said - its a problem with your list and not the chimera. Oh, and if they do this formation remember it can a) only move straight ahead with any degree of ease (you cannot pivot without attemptting to pass through your own models, whcih is not allowed, unles syou drive forwards for 5" and do a slight turn) and b) the cannot turn around and c) can only shoot out the vehicle if they travel 6" or less that turn. Whic is fine, as I will simply outrange them for 3 turns with 8 move and fire lascannons. hell, with 15 chimera i guess youre looking at 2k points in which case I have even more than that.

Honersstodnt wrote:valks are such much worse than chimera spam... each costs 3x the cost of a chimera

2.5 with pods only.

units can't fire from inside

neither can your chimera guys, unless they only move 6"

, and its far more vulnerable to shooting (everything can see it)... I'd face an air cav list any day of the week over a chimera spam list.

And? Any major threats are dealt with when it outflanks onto the board, as youre hittign rear armour most of the time.

Having faced chimera spam lists before ANY pieces of terrain screw it up (1 or 2 immoblised results, which in your "15 chimera" list is about every turn) and holes soon appear in the sides. IT cannot manouver to save its life (assuming youre playing movement correctly? If not this may be the cause of some of your woes) and isnt quick enough when it comes to grabbing last turn objectives after sitting at safe distances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blood angels are NOT broken, as they PAY and PAY HARD for everythign they have.

Sanctjud wrote:@Honoersstodnt:

You are misinformed, you can still get side armor even if you can't see it...

Actually, I think you are misinformed. If you are in a side armour zone, but you can't see it (instead you see only front armour) you shoot at the FRONT armour AND the vehicle get 3+ cover.
This of course, not coming from some barrage shot.

JotWW. They did it for the lulz imo.

What you see and which vehicle facing you are on are two different things IIRC, but this would be a YMDC issue.

Regardless, there are ways to break up the Chimera Wall, nothing is unbeatable, it certainly is annoying.

Chimeras are overpowered? This is news to me! Yeah, you can put them in a wall, unless they come into bottlenecks, then their girth is a liability. I don't know how many times I have seized the advance of my opponent by popping one or two Rhinos or Chimeras. AV12, while not anything to sneeze at, is hardly a formidable value.

Gotta say my friends all say my TH/SS Terminators are overpowered, but really, in an army that uses lots of shooting, we need at least one tough hombre to help deal with MC's that drop in amongst our humble Devastator Squads. Yes +3 Invul saves are nice, but not broken.

Skinnattittar wrote: then their girth is a liability...

i'm seriously still giggling like a schoolgirl after reading this.

I would say Lash of Submission is broken for many reasons, most of all sportsmanship. It is just no fun at all for the owning player to have his models moved by his opponent, almost always to his great detriment. Yes, there are ways of avoiding this, but the fact it exists isn't fun at all.

Jaws of the World Wolf is also a great annoyance. The fact that it simply "removes" the effected models is just so alien to the main game as to be unprecedented for regular play. The field of effect is also annoying, with just a minimum of creativity the wielder can effect dozens of models who will have no defense against it.

No Armor Value (or Toughness, for that matter) is of consequence to the might of the gauss weapons.

The amount of people continuing to bitch and moan about Deepstriking Land Raiders is fascinating.

Its like no one cares that DSing a LR is damn near useless - not to mention extremely difficult to pull of unless you play on tables with minimal terrain.

I really hate Daemonhunter Allies.

I'm looking forward to the "Mystics Crutch" getting kicked out from under these gits when the new codex comes out.

BrotherAtrox wrote:The amount of people continuing to bitch and moan about Deepstriking Land Raiders is fascinating.

Its like no one cares that DSing a LR is damn near useless - not to mention extremely difficult to pull of unless you play on tables with minimal terrain.

locator beacons

Anybody that DSs something as big as a LR without locator beacons is asking for trouble. Just because you don't know how to make it work, doesn't make it worthless.

Yeah.. Lash is one of the crappiest ones.. Mainly what Skinnattittar wrote..
But also:
Nice cover.. *Fzorgle*! and you're in the open..
Nice spread.. *Fzorgle*! and those plasma cannons and flamers will hurt like crap..
In assault range you say? *Fzorgle* and gtfo to the difficult or dangerous terrain..
This unit there.. *Fzorgle* here so my whole army is in assault range now..
And this on flying MC..

DS Land Raiders are a joke.. Come on.. I don't even have to try and get all my meltas that far to wreck this super expensive piece of crap..

I'm fascinated that no one said Deff Rolla.. There was soooo much flame around it and now not even a single vote?

Totally in agreement about the Deff Rolla, especially against vehicles (which makes absolutely no sense, even RAW).

GW writes the rules and then breaks them and then makes more rules to cover the power vacuum caused by the older, broken rules....etc.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting sick of all the FNP that's been liberally spread throughout the game.

agnosto wrote:GW writes the rules and then breaks them and then makes more rules to cover the power vacuum caused by the older, broken rules....etc.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting sick of all the FNP that's been liberally spread throughout the game.

It is GW's new toy that makes typically easily killed units nigh unkillable. While I appreciate it, and kind of like it (despite being IG and practically never getting to use it), I just wish they stopped giving it "area of effect" roles. I'm sorry, but some guy holding a chalice nearby won't stop me from keeling over if I have been disembowled (for me, I would keep on fighting just to see the look on my enemy's face!).

FNP itself isn't broken.. But giving it to every moving thing is just wrong.. I really liked that about Wh40k.. Just a single save and nothing else.. But I guess FNP isn't save so I'm all quiet now..

Honersstodnt wrote:wtf are fast units gonna do?if you put something like a russ on one end, with armor 13 on the side, and have the other end of your chimera line touching the board edge, your not getting any side armor... ever. If you are talking about getting behind it, then good luck to you.

valks are such much worse than chimera spam... each costs 3x the cost of a chimera, units can't fire from inside, and its far more vulnerable to shooting (everything can see it)... I'd face an air cav list any day of the week over a chimera spam list.

I eat Chimera line for breakfast with my dark angels. All it takes is 3 6-man 2xMelta Gun Biker squad, and your whole armor is out of the chimera's by turn one. I love my Scouting/Outflanking bikes... OH, and the terms that are going to drop out of thin air next to the bikes turn one.

Rube wrote:Chimera spam is the phalanx of 40k. As we all know, historically the phalanx was never beaten, which is why modern militaries still fight in phalanx formation!

Is no-one going to call jetseer councils overpowered? Please?

Well two things need to be said here:
First, the Romans lost many battles when they were hit from two angles, look at Hannibal of Carthage's history and rethink "the phalanx was never beaten"
Second, modern military armoured vehiicles fight side by side, but at great distances (>10meters) from each other, this is not reall a phalanx as they arn't litteraly side by side.

I do however aggre that wall o' chimeras is very useful, but not all the time, sometimes the board just doesn't accomodate that kind of formation

GRRR RAWR TERMAGANTS WITH SPIKE RIFLES ROAR!

Look out! I'm rolling 30 dice!! Wait....what was your toughness again? Oh...never mind...I might as well put these dice back down....

despoiler52 wrote:

Rube wrote:Chimera spam is the phalanx of 40k. As we all know, historically the phalanx was never beaten, which is why modern militaries still fight in phalanx formation!

Is no-one going to call jetseer councils overpowered? Please?

Well two things need to be said here:
First, the Romans lost many battles when they were hit from two angles, look at Hannibal of Carthage's history and rethink "the phalanx was never beaten"
Second, modern military armoured vehiicles fight side by side, but at great distances (>10meters) from each other, this is not reall a phalanx as they arn't litteraly side by side.

...

No, I was referring to modern infantry still fighting in a phalanx. I was in no way taking the piss out of people who say chimera-wall is OP by stating that phalanx's were never beaten in battle. Which they never were, as long ranged firepower, fast moving flankers and slightly longer spears don't exist. ;P

Honersstodnt wrote:but... jetseer councils arent overpowered.

Can you guys come down to my game store next thursday and tell my opponents that please?

Madog wrote:

Honersstodnt wrote:but... jetseer councils arent overpowered.

Can you guys come down to my game store next thursday and tell my opponents that please?

I can. Threw two 8 man berzerker squad at it with a fist and after about 250 attacks I came out smelling like roses. Takes a while but it's do able while the rest of his army is shot from underneath.

despoiler52 wrote:

Rube wrote:Chimera spam is the phalanx of 40k. As we all know, historically the phalanx was never beaten, which is why modern militaries still fight in phalanx formation!

Is no-one going to call jetseer councils overpowered? Please?

Well two things need to be said here:
First, the Romans lost many battles when they were hit from two angles, look at Hannibal of Carthage's history and rethink "the phalanx was never beaten"
Second, modern military armoured vehiicles fight side by side, but at great distances (>10meters) from each other, this is not reall a phalanx as they arn't litteraly side by side.

I do however aggre that wall o' chimeras is very useful, but not all the time, sometimes the board just doesn't accomodate that kind of formation

The Romans didn't fight in a Phalanx. They are actually the famed military that brought an end to it. The Phalanx was a large formation of spearmen with 16 foot long pikes (sarissa) used by the Macedonians and copied throughout the world after Alexander's conquest. Until they were rendered obsolete by the Romans.

I believe the post you quoted was sarcasm btw.

Kurgash wrote:

Madog wrote:

Honersstodnt wrote:but... jetseer councils arent overpowered.

Can you guys come down to my game store next thursday and tell my opponents that please?

I can. Threw two 8 man berzerker squad at it with a fist and after about 250 attacks I came out smelling like roses. Takes a while but it's do able while the rest of his army is shot from underneath

Wow - all the way from America to Brighton just to tell my mates that - you're a really nice man - thanks. See you Thursday then

I don't think Seer Council is overpowered myself (that's why I use one) - just worrying when I read people accusing it of cheese. It is a great tar pit unit for tying up stuff while the rest of your army goes on the rampage though!