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Theres to many spezz marines already.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Compared to the new fluff that all Chaos gods get along just fine and just LOVE eachother (Khorne and Tzeentch are best buds now!), the BA fluff is fine.

AS for the nerd rage over Nids - the codex CAN be strong, it just requires playing in a very different way to 4th ed. No more anvil-hammers, you have glass-hammers and buff / debuff units. Use them well, they do you good.

Vepr wrote:I have to admit after the fluff in the SW codex with Canis WolfWolf riding his wolf Wolfie and Tyranids getting a usb downloaded super tyrant that helps them win a few battles before they lose every war fricking war and Blood Angels using blood fists which is... a bloody blood fist... or something and Mephiston lord of Gouda... whoops I meant BLOOD Gouda... I am little bit afraid of what we are going to see in the next codex.

Greymesis force weapons and greynoughts with knight fists?

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Probably no one wanted to admit even a passing familiarity with the subject.

Terminus wrote:

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Probably no one wanted to admit even a passing familiarity with the subject.

Ahem. What subject is this? >.>

kaptaink wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Bella swan makes me so jealous. She actually gets to live out her vampire fantasy, I just have to sit here and wait for sanguinor to fly me away

How is it that no one has commented on this amazing treasure right here. I lol'd.

Because reds8n deleted my original post, quoted somewhere.

I cant see a reason to play BA for competitive gaming. Or to put it better no reason why BA are your only option. If you really like the fluff or playstyle thats good and all. But if you are looking for an easy win net list army then you are taking the easy way out, and are only hurting yourself in the long run.

It works one of two ways
1-you are a hobbyist player, and as such should paint and play the army you love. You want to tell a story, to put on a good show. Then use whatever looks prettiest, winning shouldnt be a concern for you. Its about relaxation.

2-you are a competitive player, which breaks down into 2 types.
A-you want to grow a bigger E-peen. Rethink your life and quit playing 40k, you are the kind of player that is killing the game.

B-you enjoy competition, you like the thought that goes into competitive gaming, you love to drive 150 miles one way to play games against people you never met before. If you enjoy competition whats the point in bringing a net list. Its not competitive, it turns the game into a rock-paper-scissors match up fest. And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard. They are supposed to be auto win, which is why I have no sympathy for people bringing them to ard boyz this year. I do feel sorry for people who bring stuff like dark eldar and are collateral damage though. But whats the point of competing with a list you didnt write.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Compared to the new fluff that all Chaos gods get along just fine and just LOVE eachother (Khorne and Tzeentch are best buds now!), the BA fluff is fine.

Khorne and Tzeentch never had a problem with eachother (other than Khorne thought that Tzeentch was a coward for using magic), Khorne hates Slaanesh, Tzeentch hates Nurgle.

As to OP, play the army you want to play, not the one that people can give you reasons why you shouldnt. If you like how the BA play, play them, and stick with them after the bandwagon goes elsewere.

From a non-competative point of view:

- They're Imperial scum.
- They're Space Marines.
- Their fluff sucks.
- Their leader is a blonde Edward Cullen in space.

To me, that's reason enough not to play them.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

Well besides the huge lack of originallity, and the complete bandwagon jumping that goes along with playing BA

Fluff is absolute fething slowed

also its hard to take advantage of BA specialties when your playing 100 other BA players

Terminus wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

very true...when facing a netlist you almost always feel the prestige of the list...but then you can quickly come to realize how poorly someone is at playing someone else's list

The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Nightsbane wrote:the twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood.

Of course, not many vampires pre-Cullen were sparkly.

And then came the Sanguinary Guard...

(I kid, I kid. It's just that they DO look a bit ridiculous, although the same could be said of a unit in practically any army.)

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Stuff Marines can do BA can't

Thunderfire Cannon
Ironclad Dread
Master of the forge
Marneus Calgar
Vulcan
Shrike
Lysander
Tigurius
Cassius
Kosharro Khan
Pedro Kantor + scoring sternguard
The improves tanks guy
Telion
Not subject to blood rage
different psychic powers
all bike army
cheaper TH/SS terminators
cheaper but slower transports
cheaper but slower mainline battletanks


There you go. If there is nothing there that appeals to you then go start BA. If any of that appeals to you then there is your reason to play Marines. That and fluff, colour schemes, etc.

Kind of a waste of time, since you could have just said HQs, but I think you just wanted to have a bigger list.

I am going to go with blood angels, regardless of current forum hate (which will pass when the next codex comes out) because I like the look and flavor of them the best. I also have enough points and units to play either blood angels or vanilla on the same paint scheme. The only thing I am selling is calgar, which is fine since it was a worthless purchase anyway. Other than that I will still have all of the same things, and just a couple more boxes of blood angels stuff.

Perhaps I could have said HQ's but that would shortchange the army a fair bit.

Want an entirely outflanking army? You need codex space marines.

Want an entirely infiltrating army? (or did shrike give scout? can't remember off the top of my head) codex space marines

twin linked flamers, melta weapons and thunder hammers? Not in BA.

Scoring stubborn sternguard, not in BA.


The HQ's really open up different tactics in the vanilla dex that go beyond mere unit composition.

Yes, but you could list many differences made with blood angels HQ's as well.

Also you can have TH/SS Termies just like vanilla. That isn't removed from BA

The point wasn't to list the differences between the codex.

The op wanted a reason NOT to play BA and instead play Vanilla marines.

So I was simply listing all the things that can be done with a vanilla marine army that CANNOT be done with a BA army. I wasn't listing what BA CAN do.

Can BA have an all outflanking army? No. Would you like an all outflanking army? Yes. There you go, a reason to play vanilla marines.

Also check your reading comprehension, I specified CHEAPER TH/SS termies in the nilla codex than the BA. I'm well aware BA can have them too.

People mention good ol' Edward because some of the BA models are all golden and pretty. I'm no vampire expert but most vampire movies, games, books, etc. I've seen don't really have long blond haired dudes wearing golden armor flying on massive angel wings into combat.

Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Space Wolves needed an update first because it was old, and Blood Angels needed an update second because their codex was released in an awful format.

Seems like a coincidence to me.

Necroman wrote:

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Space Wolves needed an update first because it was old, and Blood Angels needed an update second because their codex was released in an awful format.

Seems like a coincidence to me.

You would say that.

Almost as if they just started updating all the old codecies...hm...no...if that were true we'd be seeing Grey Knights and Dark Eldar soon...

To each his own, the sanguinary guard and sanguinor were two models that made me start thinking blood angels in the first place. They look so roman/grecian and dangerous in a faceless/construct way. I like it quite a bit. As I said, to each his own though...

kaptaink wrote:Also, it can't just be a coincidence that marine codex releases went wolves to vampires..

Hey, if more girls start to play the game in my area solely because of Edward Cullen, I wouldn't complain..... Of course, I'm 18 and single, so that might have something to do with that

@OP:

You need a reason not to play BA?

1. Friends don't let friends play MEQ armies. Marines as a whole are underwhelming and average; good at everything, exceptional at nothing. Space Wolves might break the mold, but BA do not.

2. Some 50% and more of 40k players fall into this category. You don't want to be a mindless drone.

3. So many other armies have better fluff, more creative armies, and can beat the crap out of BA as easily as they can out of other marine armies.

Dashofpepper wrote:1. Friends don't let friends play MEQ armies. Marines as a whole are underwhelming and average; good at everything, exceptional at nothing. Space Wolves might break the mold, but BA do not.

2. Some 50% and more of 40k players fall into this category. You don't want to be a mindless drone.

3. So many other armies have better fluff, more creative armies, and can beat the crap out of BA as easily as they can out of other marine armies.

Chaos Space Marines don't exactly fall into these categories, as MEQ. I mean, Yeah most of their units can beat the crap out of you both in shooting and CC, but still, they are definatly very easy to be creative with the army.......


Right?

Nightsbane wrote:The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Are you a troll?

ductvader wrote:

Terminus wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote: And most netlists are designed to play themselves, such as maximum overdrive wolves and mech/leafblower guard.

This is somewhat of a falsehood. "Netlists" originate from successful tournament lists that were derived through experimentation and experience. When internet noobz copy a netlist and try to put it into play, they often fail, and fail hard.

very true...when facing a netlist you almost always feel the prestige of the list...but then you can quickly come to realize how poorly someone is at playing someone else's list

Perhaps I should have clarified. Netlists are very effective armies that one person had success with. But a lot of people start them up expecting the same, and then put no more thought into it. I have a friend who plays chaos, and he subs them in as wolves on occasion. He said he turns almost all thinking off when playing the wolves, as he just expects them to auto win games for him. I find this is the impression of a lot of netlist kiddies that I get. I play this guard army list that I read about in a blog, or this wolf army I read about in another blog, or this BA army I read about in a forum. And so and so on the internet said it kicks ass, so I will beat everyone with it. Hell I started out this way with my mechdar back in 4th. Generic clown car netlist, won most games against beginners, but when I ran into someone who knew how to bring the pain I lost, as I wasnt used to thinking to play.

So thats what I meant. Lists that people think will win the game for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

terribletrygon wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:The twilight comparisons are getting a little old. People tend to forget that the vampire genre existed far before twilight, and there are many awesome alternatives, like true blood. Seriously, if you type out E D W A R D C U L L E N or have to talk about sparkle every time someone mutters vampire it is most likely that you are an obsessed twilight fan overcompensating to hide your fandome. You probably type "LULZ EDWARD CULLEN HQ LULZ" and then tab back over to your team Edward/Jacob boards.

Seriously. Grow up.

Are you a troll?

Sounds like you are angry someone wrote a better series of young adult novels than "Harry Potter".

Shoggoth is correct.

Net lists are "perfect" for the person who built them, has a tactical strategy for that list.

the problem is that, while the lists may be effective, its really how the builder used it when playing it and that is something that doesn't come accross on the internet, blog, or whereever you found it.






the reason one wouldn't play BA's is if the play style isn't for you.

BA's are an assaulty, short ranged fire power army. if you don't like that then play something else.

The codex is pretty well balanced, but fails in the fluff department. if you like the basic fluff then; Great you have found a fun army for yourself and its decently powerful too.


Codex and army is Good(but not OP), fluff in codex itself is terrible, but if you ignore that then its a good army.

I chose space marines because I find their fluff the most interesting. Necrons is having an entire drone force led by a couple interesting units ( and robot spiders....come on...) Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys. Orks are mindless, and simply not interesting. Nids are overplayed and also the hive mind is boring. Other than that there is chaos, and I don't really favor any of the daemon models. That pretty much sums up the entire game, half the choices are a part of the Imperium in some way. The rest are listed above. These are my opinions, and are not in any way fact.

The difference is that I jumped into this without any board knowledge, tournament knowledge of meta-gaming knowledge. Our group of 20 or so players around here play for the hobby and for the fun. Each person chose their forces and what they bought based on personal choice, and a netlist has never appeared at one of our tables. So forgive me if I don't buy the "cool kids don't play space marines" bunk. In my group there are three of us now that do, and two months ago there were none. People should play what they find interesting, and not pay attention to meta-gaming or wanting the other dakka posters to let them be a cool kid. I made this topic because I was initially confused as to what the point was of the BA codex, since it seemed on the surface to mainly be a space marines+ . I have learned the changes and decided to switch to them. I did this because I LIKE the fluff, and also I like having strengths instead of being stuck in units of mediocrity with the space marines (great range and choice, but I am not a fan of "jack of all trades, master of none" play).

The twilight comments above were made because the jokes are old, and just keep popping up because people have codex envy. Twilight isn't even that terrible of a series truth be told. It's not something I would have on my shelf, and sparkling vamps is super stupid, but it's better than most female target market film.

Anyway I think this topic is settled now. No need to keep making dumb nipple jokes or crying about the amount of space marine players that won't play your pwetty wittle wace.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Shoggoth is correct.

Net lists are "perfect" for the person who built them, has a tactical strategy for that list.

the problem is that, while the lists may be effective, its really how the builder used it when playing it and that is something that doesn't come accross on the internet, blog, or whereever you found it.






the reason one wouldn't play BA's is if the play style isn't for you.

BA's are an assaulty, short ranged fire power army. if you don't like that then play something else.

The codex is pretty well balanced, but fails in the fluff department. if you like the basic fluff then; Great you have found a fun army for yourself and its decently powerful too.


Codex and army is Good(but not OP), fluff in codex itself is terrible, but if you ignore that then its a good army.

thanks, I appreciate that your posts across topics is always so constructive and helpful.

Nightsbane wrote:
The twilight comments above were made because the jokes are old, and just keep popping up because people have codex envy. Twilight isn't even that terrible of a series truth be told. It's not something I would have on my shelf, and sparkling vamps is super stupid, but it's better than most female target market film.

Anyway I think this topic is settled now. No need to keep making dumb nipple jokes or crying about the amount of space marine players that won't play your pwetty wittle wace.

You were taking tongue-in-cheek comments really seriously, so I thought you were being sarcastic or encouraging 'responses'. Sorry if you were really being serious about it.

My personal reasons for not playing Blood Angels:

1. I haven't figured out a decent conversion for the Sanguinator. I mean, it would be dramatic to show the figure when the daemon prince inside finally hatches out of its golden shell and comes out, but that's really hard to model.

2. If I played Blood Angels, I wouldn't be able to sleep over the sound of the Land Raiders deep striking. I fear I would be woken up each night by the soft screams of their engines as the plummet to the ground.

3. I just finally put together some test figures for my Space Werewolves units. It'll take months to figure out what to do for a Vampire and undead themed marine army.

WOW

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/92321-.html

No one can question Blood Angel sexuality anywhere

Nightsbane wrote:Eldar look really dumb and fire their blasts from what look to be expensive sex toys.

*enter Inquisitor*

How do you know how much Eldar sex toys cost?

*drags you off in chains to be tortured and executed for the twin crimes of heresy and colluding with the Xenos*