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I don't think it's going to affect Guard that much. Yes the Mystic is nice and all but players would simply avoid it by deep striking outside its range. So this now means they can deep strike closer to you. Yet if they deep strike to close to you, that might mishap which rarely happens now due to the mystics forcing them to deep-strike away from you. So I don't see to much of a change unless your facing units that can re-roll their scatter roll.

Ig have these things called "Demo charges". They go in small expendable squads that can sit in front of your tanks, and don't care about FNP.

IMO, an IG army wants their opponent to show up SOONER, rather than later. This gives you more turns to apply the plethora of High-S, long-ranged weaponry to them. With the poor BS of Guard armies, you want as many chances to inflict casualties as you can.

I agree, which is why I never use one either. I'd rather have their reserves come sooner than later. My friends don't seem to really get that sometimes. He really is only good agains Daemons and Nids. I think the re-roll he forces on opponents Outflankers is the only really useful thing IMHO.


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Although I would like the option of being able to take Imperial assassins, just for the contrast of something thats not a large squad or tank.

Agreed. I will miss not being able to use assassins. Hopefully, they'll allow them to join any imperial army since they should operate independently from everything else.

daedalus wrote:

I would argue against that. The fact that the reserves roll becomes more difficult means that it's more likely that just one or two things come on at a time. I'll happily deal with 33% of your outflankers at a time as opposed to 50%. I do agree that the game is constantly evolving though.

This then causes the problem of 75% or more of the deep strikers dropping on you all at once at the end of the game- when you have no time to deal with them. 33% of of reserves is managable, but with the Fleet officer pushing them back a turn- they start lining up like angry shoppers stuck behind the stupid coupon lady at a grocery store


The Spec weapon squad with a demo charge & flamers is a viable idea- theyre small enough they can hide behind a Russ or Chimera equivalent. And the demo charge on them should be modeled in a flamboyant manner to help be a visible deterrent. Its a risky shot to use close to your own vehicles(if the deep strikers land that close they may have melta hosed the tank already) but the flamers still work on that. And at 40-50 pts you can use one or two to fit your deployment- possibly even setting a trap with an open landing zone to sucker your opponent into dropping next a squad of these guys that are hanging out next to a blob squad.

I think that this whole thread is kinda weak. I mean IG already romp all over the place. Do they really need an entire other codex to steal from just to cover up one little weakness? I'm sure you guard players can use better tactics... or there is some stupid tank variant in your book to help you get over on the rest of us.

shaunzo wrote:I think that this whole thread is kinda weak. I mean IG already romp all over the place. Do they really need an entire other codex to steal from just to cover up one little weakness? I'm sure you guard players can use better tactics... or there is some stupid tank variant in your book to help you get over on the rest of us.

don't hold back. tell Us how you really feel about the IG! just kidding!

OT
i'm a little skeptical about throwing pie plates around in my "backyard" so to speak. Demo charge is okay. it shouldn't scatter far enough to cause problems, but a Russ is a different matter.
i like the bubble wrap suggestions. i'm going to try to work up a couple of trial lists this weekend. i won't get to try out anything for about 3-4 weeks.

almost makes the Rough riders sound like a interesting unit to try. except for the whole FA slot loss that is....

alarmingrick wrote:
OT
i'm a little skeptical about throwing pie plates around in my "backyard" so to speak. Demo charge is okay. it shouldn't scatter far enough to cause problems, but a Russ is a different matter.

Indeed. One other factor with using demo charges is real estate. If the enemy dropped in danger-close to your lines (Descent of Angels, or pods, perhaps), and fails to eliminate the tank or squad they're near, the demo charge might not be able to be thrown at all. You can't drop a blast or template that will touch your own units before scatter :(
I used this rule to minor effect last weekend. I charged a Chimera that was protected by a Russ, only to have the Russ unable to shoot my guys off the Chimera because all it had was blast and ordnance weapons that would have struck the Chimera as well. Of course, the meltavets inside just slagged my Marines themselves, but the point stands, lol.
I like the multi-flamer solution.

The fact that 50% of this thread has nothing to do with the topic says a lot about certain recently joined members.

OT I don't use Inquisitors or Mystics in my IG army and haven't notice a glari8ng weakness as a result. BA cause you a lot of pain but some intelligent deployment and arcs of fire can minimise their threat before you shot them to bits. I think IG will suffer more if they bring back the ability to charge another opponent in you follow up move in 6th Edition, that is going to make for a lot of Guard getting chopped to bits.

As a sumarised answer to the thread I don't think it will make a lot of difference good players will adapt, bad players will change armies.

Actually I think a lot of bad players will stay the same army, but start to whine about how Imperial Guard are weak. Kinda like how a bunch of mediocre-at-best Space Marine players still whine that C:SM sucks and how Tacticals are useless. People are still winning with WH, DH, DE, and even DA occasionally, and yes, I do mean against the most recent powerhouse codices such as BA.

IG has far fewer issues than these armies. Their artilery is strong, their cause is just, and their tanks are very, very large.

Codex SM doesn't suck.
But I'm assuming your imating a bad/whiny player.

And yep i think that the change won't do much also.

IG have sucked since 3rd edition, they finally get a viable codex that puts them on par with MEQ, and due to the current rule set they have some new advantages. I dont get the people that are grumbling about a thread thats asking for tactical alternatives.

You may not think its needed- but part of army optimizing is discussion and getting differing perspectives on how to solve problems.

OT- alarmingrick, before wasting points on one shot roughriders, look at the hellhound variants like I suggested earlier. A Banewolf can get its template up close and cozy with your own armored units and not hurt them- yet will melt anything thats not a terminator.

Mistress of minis wrote:IG have sucked since 3rd edition, they finally get a viable codex that puts them on par with MEQ, and due to the current rule set they have some new advantages. I dont get the people that are grumbling about a thread thats asking for tactical alternatives.

You may not think its needed- but part of army optimizing is discussion and getting differing perspectives on how to solve problems.

OT- alarmingrick, before wasting points on one shot roughriders, look at the hellhound variants like I suggested earlier. A Banewolf can get its template up close and cozy with your own armored units and not hurt them- yet will melt anything thats not a terminator.

Even though the template cannot hurt your own unit, you may still not place a template touching a friendly unit.

willydstyle wrote:

Mistress of minis wrote:IG have sucked since 3rd edition, they finally get a viable codex that puts them on par with MEQ, and due to the current rule set they have some new advantages. I dont get the people that are grumbling about a thread thats asking for tactical alternatives.

You may not think its needed- but part of army optimizing is discussion and getting differing perspectives on how to solve problems.

OT- alarmingrick, before wasting points on one shot roughriders, look at the hellhound variants like I suggested earlier. A Banewolf can get its template up close and cozy with your own armored units and not hurt them- yet will melt anything thats not a terminator.

Even though the template cannot hurt your own unit, you may still not place a template touching a friendly unit.

Yes- well aware of that- but Deepstrikers VS IG are going for the backline artillery- tyring to get within 6" for them melta shots. If you cannot position a flamer template so you dont hit a bunch of your own infantry, you probly shouldnt be playing 40k

And even if you do end up in a situation where you have to chem cannon some of your own guardsmen....guardsman 5pts....MEQ 15+...seems like an adequate trade if it keeps a 150+ point tank safe

But you can't chem cannon your own guardsmen, ever, period, as you can't place the template touching them, or any other friendly unit.

willydstyle wrote:But you can't chem cannon your own guardsmen, ever, period, as you can't place the template touching them, or any other friendly unit.

Ahh, ya, I still have some previous edition bad habits lol Like thinking the rule where the opponent can shift the flame template around so long as it covers the same or more models is still hiding in the BRB

That's from third ed when a blast hit the models it was covering, rather than causing hits that are allocated to the unit.

The loss of psychic defense isn't that painful to a mechanized army. It's nowhere near as painful as running a footslogging list with no psychic defense.

Personally, I am a fan of the bubble wrap technique. I played against foot-slogging FNP BAs that all dropped on me 2nd turn at 'Ard Boyz, and I had not bubble wrapped. If I had bubble wrapped them, my Executioner would have turned the BAs into puddles of slippery MEQ goop, instead of the first turn drop.

Alpha Strike BAs w/ Metlas = No Beuno for unprotected IG tanks.

Moral of the story:
The WWII Soviet Union had it right. Protect you tanks with your men.

darkdm wrote:Personally, I am a fan of the bubble wrap technique. I played against foot-slogging FNP BAs that all dropped on me 2nd turn at 'Ard Boyz, and I had not bubble wrapped. If I had bubble wrapped them, my Executioner would have turned the BAs into puddles of slippery MEQ goop, instead of the first turn drop.

Alpha Strike BAs w/ Metlas = No Beuno for unprotected IG tanks.

Moral of the story:
The WWII Soviet Union had it right. Protect you tanks with your men.

I believe similar tactics were used by the Americans against Canada in the South Park movie...

Operation human shield???

Sorry if this sounds a bit silly, but tis just a general idea. Mount shooty tanks in a corner(ish) meaning they can't be taken by the rear, with a few squads of expendable guard protecting the front, meaning that meltas won't really be able to get in range without taking a beating. Other people have kinda mentioned this, this is just a cumalation.
Cheers

If youa're gonna do that, make sure you have enough firepower to destroy the entire enemy army, so that they don't beat you by scoring.

When they part ways, my daemons are going to be very happy. This is actually a large concern in my local gaming club, since when i started daemons EVERY guard player got mystics to keep me away... Now I will be able to more easily open the cans and eat the yummy insides

Should do well to balance the codex a little bit...IG have so much...they don't need to piggyback an inquisitor to play well...say goodbye to that bonus and start coming up with counter deepstrike tactics...you have the technology