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the emperor sent them you fool, horus tricked russ into wanting to kill magnus instead of capturing him but the order to be there was the emperors. horus has no authority over the custodes or the sisters, they belong to the emperor.

plus as you say he could have diverted them, not destroy divert. Prospero Burning was inevitable, Magnus couldnt stop it because head already given up, not to mention russ is damn near psyker proof so even chaos horus would have to fight him cc and thats where russ owns.

oh and the space wolf "mutation" was deliberate, the cup of the wulfen was brought from terra because only aspirants who drank from it could be given a geneseed and obviously there was a legion before the emperor found russ.

lol please read the fluff before posting, otherwise you just look silly.

I got to say the last two would be Sanguinius and Angron, with Angron winning. However it is said all the primarch have some measure of the emperor's abilities such as invisibility (?), speed, tactical genius and brute strength (correct me if i'm wrong please), so I thinking what abilities could the primarch's have had that would give them an advantage over another? Angron definitely having pure strength and killy powers.

Magnus weakness was his compassion, kinda like the Emperor's.I think they were closer in character than most think. Magnus lost so badly because he didn't fight really back. In no way do I believe that he could've easily won or beat Russ, especially not in close combat, but from a distance things might've looked completely different. And Magnus had that distance. But it shows what a damn slow Russ is to happily follow such an order, even if Horus was trustworthy. He could've checked back.

IMO this is what makes the sons so interesting. They are tragic, predetermined to be obliterated and driven to the one true master of the galaxy, Tzeentch. I love Tzeentch despite screwing my two other favourite characters, Magnus and the Emperor, over.

Well, I tried to understand your post Mr. Rout, but lacking any reasonable attempt at grammar, spelling, or punctuation, I am going to assume you meant to say "SPAHSE MAREENZ".

The fluff is intentionally written from an Imperialist perspective, with the purpose of making the Imperium and Emperor look infallible, while making the enemies of the Imperium look like bumbling idiots. The Horus Heresy books make it clear that the Primarchs that turned to Chaos would have had no problem overthrowing the Imperium if they weren't infected with a terminal case of stupid emo drak.

But Magnus (again) is shown to be as far above his brothers as they are above the Astartes. Only the Emperor is stronger than Magnus, and that is a near thing.

Also,

the rout wrote:lol please read the fluff before posting, otherwise you just look silly.

I have read the fluff. And I understand how to read between the lines. The fluff is written as Imperial propaganda, you cannot take (most of) it at face value.

karimabuseer wrote:Ferrus Manus who was cut down by that loser Fulgrim?!
Horus would beat them imo. But then again...gotta stick with my Black Legion routes

'Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy in his grasp..and he let it slip away'.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:What about Sanguinius vs Horus?

sarcasm? Horus did some gruesome thing to him..I think he ripped his head off or something. I'm sure I'm wrong.

Anyway,no, I don't think so. Their Prince forms are (by their very nature) more powerful than the primarchs themselves.


I imagine angron magnus and horus to be some of the most powerful primarchs. The loyalists (and fulgrim) seem rather wimpy compared to these guys.

Sanguinius seems like a delicate wimp,fulgrim..well,he worships slaanesh. Need I say more?

As much as I love the ultras, guilliman seems like a wimp, lorgar seems pretty tough, Mortarion is okay (the lantern is pretty awesome), Russ is freakin ownage, khan seems like a Neanderthal....Ugh,I've got totally biased opinions...

Yes you do need to say more. I dont see were all the Fulgrim hate is coming from. He took 3 (!) loyalist primarchs out of the game. How many other primarchs can say that? Yes fulgrim as an efeminate pretty boy... but that doesnt mean that he wasnt in the top 5 most powerful primarch in my book, just base on cannon fluff alone.

This thread reeks of so much fanboyism that I think I can hear the space furrie fanbase fapping from way out here in japan. Everyone is just spitting biase drivel (even me ^ !). Now using what I know from past fluff and the HH series here is my take on the primarchs "overall" power levels:
Top 5: Horus, Russ, Magus, Fulgrim, Saguinius
Next: Angron, The lion, Logor, Cruz, Vulkan

the rest just fall in line behind them in my eyes.

Laughing God wrote:

karimabuseer wrote:Ferrus Manus who was cut down by that loser Fulgrim?!
Horus would beat them imo. But then again...gotta stick with my Black Legion routes

'Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy in his grasp..and he let it slip away'.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:What about Sanguinius vs Horus?

sarcasm? Horus did some gruesome thing to him..I think he ripped his head off or something. I'm sure I'm wrong.

Anyway,no, I don't think so. Their Prince forms are (by their very nature) more powerful than the primarchs themselves.


I imagine angron magnus and horus to be some of the most powerful primarchs. The loyalists (and fulgrim) seem rather wimpy compared to these guys.

Sanguinius seems like a delicate wimp,fulgrim..well,he worships slaanesh. Need I say more?

As much as I love the ultras, guilliman seems like a wimp, lorgar seems pretty tough, Mortarion is okay (the lantern is pretty awesome), Russ is freakin ownage, khan seems like a Neanderthal....Ugh,I've got totally biased opinions...

Yes you do need to say more. I dont see were all the Fulgrim hate is coming from. He took 3 (!) loyalist primarchs out of the game. How many other primarchs can say that? Yes fulgrim as an efeminate pretty boy... but that doesnt mean that he wasnt in the top 5 most powerful primarch in my book, just base on cannon fluff alone.

This thread reeks of so much fanboyism that I think I can hear the space furrie fanbase fapping from way out here in japan. Everyone is just spitting biase drivel (even me ^ !). Now using what I know from past fluff and the HH series here is my take on the primarchs "overall" power levels:
Top 5: Horus, Russ, Magus, Fulgrim, Saguinius
Next: Angron, The lion, Logor, Cruz, Vulkan

the rest just fall in line behind them in my eyes.

Yeah, Fulgrim rules - A tragic character once more and one of my favourites as well. And he owned so many, so in no way is he at the bottom of the barrel. he just gets a bad rep for being a prettyboy.

Mit Gas wrote:

Laughing God wrote:

karimabuseer wrote:Ferrus Manus who was cut down by that loser Fulgrim?!
Horus would beat them imo. But then again...gotta stick with my Black Legion routes

'Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy in his grasp..and he let it slip away'.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:What about Sanguinius vs Horus?

sarcasm? Horus did some gruesome thing to him..I think he ripped his head off or something. I'm sure I'm wrong.

Anyway,no, I don't think so. Their Prince forms are (by their very nature) more powerful than the primarchs themselves.


I imagine angron magnus and horus to be some of the most powerful primarchs. The loyalists (and fulgrim) seem rather wimpy compared to these guys.

Sanguinius seems like a delicate wimp,fulgrim..well,he worships slaanesh. Need I say more?

As much as I love the ultras, guilliman seems like a wimp, lorgar seems pretty tough, Mortarion is okay (the lantern is pretty awesome), Russ is freakin ownage, khan seems like a Neanderthal....Ugh,I've got totally biased opinions...

Yes you do need to say more. I dont see were all the Fulgrim hate is coming from. He took 3 (!) loyalist primarchs out of the game. How many other primarchs can say that? Yes fulgrim as an efeminate pretty boy... but that doesnt mean that he wasnt in the top 5 most powerful primarch in my book, just base on cannon fluff alone.

This thread reeks of so much fanboyism that I think I can hear the space furrie fanbase fapping from way out here in japan. Everyone is just spitting biase drivel (even me ^ !). Now using what I know from past fluff and the HH series here is my take on the primarchs "overall" power levels:
Top 5: Horus, Russ, Magus, Fulgrim, Saguinius
Next: Angron, The lion, Logor, Cruz, Vulkan

the rest just fall in line behind them in my eyes.

Yeah, Fulgrim rules - A tragic character once more and one of my favourites as well. And he owned so many, so in no way is he at the bottom of the barrel. he just gets a bad rep for being a prettyboy.

QFT let go of the insecurities people, yes hey was a prettyboy... a prettyboy possessed by a daemon and kills gods for fun.

laughing god is bang on the money with his list I think except with relavance to lorgar, lorgar cant fight worth a crap. and i agree with angron because the guys a fool. i mean hes supposed to a "gladiator" when he was in the arena what did he fight? humans, eldar and other stuff even a marine could take?

I think Russ could have taken pre heresy horus but im not so biased i think he could have afterwards but hed damn sure do more than a dent lol.

And the HH is not propaganda its from both sides and if anything the imperium is the one who looks stupid.

The only reason I put logor were he did was his in the book "thousand sons" he jumps between Magus and Russ and both are hesitant to come to blows just because of his presence. That little blurb gave me the impression that he must be pretty beastly fighter or have some kind of influence over his brothers in his own right. But I could be wrong. thats the only reason I put him were I did. There is nothing to say that alot of the primarchs (vulkan, khan, dorn) were "bad" fighters or "weaker" than there brothers but GW just doesnt really give us much to go off of so Im just working with what I know.

Horus baiscally killed the emperor efso facto: most powerful

Russ was made to be the emperors ultimate guard dog incase the other primarchs stepped out of line: top 5

Magus second only to the emperor in psychic might: top 5

Fulgrim killed other primarchs (ferrus, gulliman) and made it look easy: top 5

Saguinius Killed bloodthirsters, then broke the lord of all bloodthirsters backs, THEN still had the balls to charge Horus! damaging his armor so the emperor could deal his death blow: Top5

Anyone care to dissagree? The lion gets honorable mention for KOing russ and everyone respects him, and Angron because everyone is terrified of him. Everyone else is just another primarch...Though I did hear Konrad Curze punched out dorn... haha emo brother beats up the jock... hillarious

Laughing God wrote:The only reason I put logor were he did was his in the book "thousand sons" he jumps between Magus and Russ and both are hesitant to come to blows just because of his presence. That little blurb gave me the impression that he must be pretty beastly fighter or have some kind of influence over his brothers in his own right. But I could be wrong. thats the only reason I put him were I did. There is nothing to say that alot of the primarchs (vulkan, khan, dorn) were "bad" fighters or "weaker" than there brothers but GW just doesnt really give us much to go off of so Im just working with what I know.

Horus baiscally killed the emperor efso facto: most powerful

Russ was made to be the emperors ultimate guard dog incase the other primarchs stepped out of line: top 5

Magus second only to the emperor in psychic might: top 5

Fulgrim killed other primarchs (ferrus, gulliman) and made it look easy: top 5

Saguinius Killed bloodthirsters, then broke the lord of all bloodthirsters backs, THEN still had the balls to charge Horus! damaging his armor so the emperor could deal his death blow: Top5

Anyone care to dissagree? The lion gets honorable mention for KOing russ and everyone respects him, and Angron because everyone is terrified of him. Everyone else is just another primarch...Though I did hear Konrad Curze punched out dorn... haha emo brother beats up the jock... hillarious

I think Angron and Curze deserve to be in the list as well when it comes to close combat but in overall strength (judged on the whole I mean), this is pretty much my view as well. Now there are master tacticians (Alpharius or Guilliman or The Lion) or exceptionally strong and crafty ones (like Ferrus Manus) but I don't think they'd stand a chance against some of the names you or I mentioned. But I'll still stand by my statement that Angron (or Curze) would rip the other primarchs into shreds in a small room.

And I don't get the hate for Fulgrim and Angron. At least they're not posterboys like Russ or Sanguinius. Sure, Fulgrim might come off as weak in his strife for perfection - perfectionism is a good and disastrious trait all at once, I call it my best and worst quality and is eats at your core and make you restless but yet pushes you as an artist further and further- and Angron is one-sided but I just see an angry version of Kefka there (complete with the make-up and insanity) and Kefka is my favourite videogame character! Uwahahahaha!

My main problem is that I'm Tzeentch to the core but I actually like the other sides as well...

I think Night Haunter should definitely be in the top 3, he beat Dorn half to death while he was in the middle of one of his "afflictions", he also kicked Corax into the dirt during Istvaan and I think its clear he could easily have made good on his threat to kill Lorgar.
Fulgrim killed 3 primarchs, and as Guilliman killed Alpharius that would seemingly put him above 4 of his brothers.
Finally Russ, he killed Magnus and possibly played executioner for the lost primarchs.

The weakest was Lorgar by a big margin. He was genetically built to be stronger than a normal man or Astartes however as he didnt view himself as a true warrior, he couldnt possibly match up to one of his brothers, as they had the natural ability combined with the mindset needed to win.

Fulgrim beating Gulliman isnt much of a braggin right but ferrus manus is impressive its just he never really fought one of the big bad boys. I completely agree with Laughing gods list, it makes the most sense and seems to be the least biased.

Lorgar was impressive as a leader but fighting wise he was nothing to in comparison.

And Curze? seriously? he was a whiney little emo and only took dorn because dorn didnt fight back, hes never killed another primarch nor technically bested one since Corax was already engaged.

biccat wrote:
I have read the fluff. And I understand how to read between the lines. The fluff is written as Imperial propaganda, you cannot take (most of) it at face value.

Lol. Imperial propaganda. Hey, you're taking it a bit seriously there, we're talking about a sci-fi novel written about a plastic soldiers game! Don't start using the "big words". It is just a novel written to highlight the qualities of a certain W40K faction.
In this case, to have an objective point of view on the Russ-Magnus fight, you need to read the two novels depicting both points of view. Because face it, "Thousand sons" is as much Chaotic rubbish as Prospero Burns is obvious Imperial Propaganda.
From what I got from these two novels was that Russ won the fight. Magnus lacked a bit of motivation at the start but this ended when the wolves starting ravaging his world without any justification. So, the fight between Russ and Magnus during the sacking of Prospero was a fair one. Magnus had his magic, Russ had his combat prowess. Russ won and almost killed magnus. There is nothing else to say. This is not "fanboyism", just a fair observation of what happened.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:I think Night Haunter should definitely be in the top 3, he beat Dorn half to death while he was in the middle of one of his "afflictions", he also kicked Corax into the dirt during Istvaan and I think its clear he could easily have made good on his threat to kill Lorgar.
Fulgrim killed 3 primarchs, and as Guilliman killed Alpharius that would seemingly put him above 4 of his brothers.
Finally Russ, he killed Magnus and possibly played executioner for the lost primarchs.

The weakest was Lorgar by a big margin. He was genetically built to be stronger than a normal man or Astartes however as he didnt view himself as a true warrior, he couldnt possibly match up to one of his brothers, as they had the natural ability combined with the mindset needed to win.

Who didn't fight back (and wasn't killed, his back was broken). Russ might be hardcore but the example doesn't help to undermine his status.

He did technically kill Magnus in the physical sense, Magnus was forced to become a daemon just to survive, to sell out willingly and completly to chaos despite previously thinking himself his master. Magnus did fight back, he didn't want to but wheb he saw Russ slaughtering his sons he felt he had to intervene.

How was Curze whiney? And emo? If anything Curze's greatest flaw was his inability to feel and emotion, he had no empathy or love for makind like Lorgar or Magnus. He felt all mankind was flawed and wretched and the only way to keep them in line was through fear. Corax wasn't exactly in the fight for his life, he was about to finish off a defeated and broken Lorgar and as soon as Curze intervened he tried to flee because he knew he would lose. It was only luck that allowed Corax to escape. Dorn may have been physically strong but at the time of the heresy he lacked the resolve to go through with killing his brothers which would have been his downfall in any straight fight, so yes Kuze could have killed him.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:He did technically kill Magnus in the physical sense, Magnus was forced to become a daemon just to survive, to sell out willingly and completly to chaos despite previously thinking himself his master. Magnus did fight back, he didn't want to but wheb he saw Russ slaughtering his sons he felt he had to intervene.

How was Curze whiney? And emo? If anything Curze's greatest flaw was his inability to feel and emotion, he had no empathy or love for makind like Lorgar or Magnus. He felt all mankind was flawed and wretched and the only way to keep them in line was through fear. Corax wasn't exactly in the fight for his life, he was about to finish off a defeated and broken Lorgar and as soon as Curze intervened he tried to flee because he knew he would lose. It was only luck that allowed Corax to escape. Dorn may have been physically strong but at the time of the heresy he lacked the resolve to go through with killing his brothers which would have been his downfall in any straight fight, so yes Kuze could have killed him.

Well, you can survive full well with a broken back. You're just bound to a chair. But sure, he needed the demonic status to actually be of more use than the Emperor on the golden throne.

Curze rocked. A little misanthropy only hurt a few minorities.

Horus cant sanction something like that dude it was the emperor

horus just twist russes perception of the emperors orders. and the emperor made ALL of his sons considerably weaker than him and slightly weaker than russ. t never says horus give the order in any book because he didnt and couldnt command the custodes or the sisters.

warmaster just means master of all marines not all military might. the IG was a se,erate command structure to.

if it werent for chaos horus would never have stood a chance against the emperor where as russ nearly beat him.

magnus was at the end of the day just a powerful psyker and have we all forgoten russes psychic reflective armour?

There is actually a piece of background (in C:V) I believe where all the Primarchs and Valdor duel Horus and only Russ and Sanguinius manage to beat him... Angron is a psycho and would be easy to manipulate and outwit in a fight, his rage would be his down fall.

the rout wrote: warmaster just means master of all marines not all military might. the IG was a se,erate command structure to.

Not at all. Warmaster meant, during the HH, master of ALL the armed forces of the IoM:

lexicanum wrote: ...raising him to the rank of Warmaster, the highest official beneath the Emperor himself, and granting him command over any and all Imperial forces.

Some imperial expeditionary fleets did have human commanders and the Imperial Army had a command structure different from the Astartes Legions, but Horus effectively controlled all the the IoM's military might.

More aptly explained, the title of "Warmaster" meant you were the Emperor's proxy. That granted every right the Emperor had when dealing with the armed forces of the Imperium.

the rout wrote:if it werent for chaos horus would never have stood a chance against the emperor where as russ nearly beat him.

Are you implying here that Russ nearly beat the Emperor? I will say that I haven't read all the fluff ever written, but I never read that nor have I ever heard mention of a fight between Russ and the Emperor that could be used as an actual example (or even one that couldn't for that matter).

the rout wrote:the emperor made ALL of his sons considerably weaker than him and slightly weaker than russ.

Never was this the Emperor's intention. The primarchs each embody one facet of the Emperor's skill/personality. This is why they are weaker; it is not because the Emperor put in safe-guards. If the Emperor's reaction to the news of Horus's betrayal is any measure (which it is) then it is more than safe to assume He never imagined them turning from Him. Therefore, he would have no reason what-so-ever to engineer them with "sub-standard" potential.

the rout wrote:Lorgar was impressive as a leader but fighting wise he was nothing to in comparison.

Are you kidding? Think back to the crusades. Thousands died fighting over lands they presumed were religiously theirs (that was the public reason anyway). Men in their droves did things they never would have done to men they had no reason to hate, all for religion. Lorgar is nothing if not a zealot. If he weren't the one to possess an inhuman rage and drive to kill then who? Angron assuredly, but Angron killed to kill. Lorgar would have smote the enemies of the Emperor with bound and pure purpose. To extinguish the lives of those whose lights did not burn for the Emperor.

Do not underestimate Lorgar. Mangus and Russ did not, and you would be a fool to assume you knew their brother better than they.

I stand by my earlier statement that Angron's blind fury would be his exploitable weakness.

Russ was a wolf given a primarch's form. He was intelligent, cunning, calculating and ruthless. But when they had to be surely every other primarch was as well. The only difference was it was Russ's very nature, and that was what made his intelligence, cunning, calculations, and ruthlessness all the more dangerous.

Magnus was closest to the Emperor. Only he truly shared the Emperor's lust for knowledge and power. It is stated in "A Thousand Sons" that they used to soar through the immaterium together for hours probing the depths of the universe in bodies of light and power. If the Emperor showed this much favor to Magnus because of his shared gift it would also be foolish to count it as less than lethal in ANY situation.

The winner of a one-on-one Primarch Battle Royal would be chosen as much by luck, environment, and circumstance as any skill the primarch's possessed. Debate all you will, but I think given the right circumstances any primarch could beat any other primarch. They were primarchs after all.

No, Lorgar really was the weakest, he said it himself. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy but I think you are confusing Primarch for legion. Lorgar was the only primarch who saw himself as a visionary not a warrior. He wanted to teach humanity about the God Emperor, not purge them. The deaths of those that died in his religious wars pained him beyond belief, which is why he broke down when the Emperor chastised him, calling him a failure. Lorgar's lack of stomach for war basically allowed Kor Phaeron and Erebus to rule the legion as they liked, when he lost faith in the Emperor they gained that extra bit of influence and manipulated him towards their own goals. Corax and Night Haunter both seem to think Lorgar is a pathetic excuse for a warrior from their dialogue with him at istvaan. So yeah in summary, body and mind Lorgar was the weakest, proven both by his own admission, and his actions. He had other qualities but compared to his brothers he didn't match up.

+ 1

Lorgar was simply not a warrior. Which means that in a "battle royale" with primarchs, he would be the first one to get killed.

-Cypher- wrote:

The winner of a one-on-one Primarch Battle Royal would be chosen as much by luck, environment, and circumstance as any skill the primarch's possessed. Debate all you will, but I think given the right circumstances any primarch could beat any other primarch. They were primarchs after all.

Wise words. While I think that certain situations heavily favor some (small room - Angron, distance - Magnus), it's pretty much impossible to say. The only thing I find truly pathetic is how the dim-witted followers of Russ and his primitive kin pimp their Primarch!

Without doubt Angron was the toughest and most brutal warrior the Imperium has ever put forward in the battle field. Even Space Marines have cowered in front of him.

Angrons past is not dissimilar to what he is now - a psychopathic killer and a trapped animal. Horus while a fine warrior was the brains behind any mission, while Angron was the fearless muscle. Hell guys, Angron even ignored and protests by the God-Emperor himself. No one could control Angron and now he is a Daemon Prince causing havok against the empire. He should have been nuked of Isstvan III

Mit Gas wrote:

-Cypher- wrote:

The winner of a one-on-one Primarch Battle Royal would be chosen as much by luck, environment, and circumstance as any skill the primarch's possessed. Debate all you will, but I think given the right circumstances any primarch could beat any other primarch. They were primarchs after all.

Wise words. While I think that certain situations heavily favor some (small room - Angron, distance - Magnus), it's pretty much impossible to say. The only thing I find truly pathetic is how the dim-witted followers of Russ and his primitive kin pimp their Primarch!

This is not SW fanboyism. This is just reading the fluff properly. Russ was created as a primarch killer. An executioner. He was probably some kind of uneducated barbarian compared to the other primarch, but we cannot deny his combat prowess. This is why he deserves to be in the top 5.
Remember, he was one of the few loyalists to kick the ass of a traitor primarch during the HH.

Angron has no business in the top five he was a broken minded fool who in all likelihood was lacking in the defense department as his chief concern was killing not living.

fulgrim killed ferrus manus and nearly killed gulliman but gulliman as weak as he is and with his throat all hanging out still put pretty boy down.

magnus wasnt tough even russ (supposedly the barbarian thou PB tells us otherwise) devised a way to make magnuses psyker power useless by making armour that reflected psyker energy.

curze didnt kill anyone or do anythin of merit during the HH shy of lettin an assasin kill him, he was a pointless emo bitchin about humanities flaws all the time and generally belly aching.

id much rather see dorn in the top 5 than angron and curze and thats saying something.

oh and the emperor and russ did duke it out when the emperor was recruiting russ. russ nearly took him two because the emperor wasnt a physical fighter.

and FYI horus wasnt the best in every way at all, he wasnt the smartest that was the lion, or the strongest that was angron or the best fighter that was russ. the thing he embodied about the emperor was his ambition, only horus was self assured in his own correctness to lead the crusade for as long as it took, he was simply unrelenting and above all shared the emperors vision of the IoM

and there were stronger and weaker primarchs of course there were and the custodes ONLY answered to the emperor, the question that no one seems to be asking is was the HH purposefully orchestrated by the emperor to facilitate his ascension to godhood?

i apologise for the spelling and grammar but i am using my phone as i dont have the internet.

Didn't the Emperor floor Russ with one punch? Doesn't sound like Russ nearly beat him to me.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:Didn't the Emperor floor Russ with one punch? Doesn't sound like Russ nearly beat him to me.

You might be referring to the fight between russ and the Lion. Where the Lion effectively ended punching russ in the face and knocking him out.

IIRC, the fight between russ and big E was a fair one. However, some (older) sources say that the emperor won angainst russ by hitting him with a PF.

the rout wrote:
Fulgrim killed ferrus manus and nearly killed gulliman but gulliman as weak as he is and with his throat all hanging out still put pretty boy down.

This is incorrect, Fulgrim was not defeated by Guilliman after he fatally wounded him

the lexicanum wrote:Fulgrim was now a serpentine creature of immense stature, and multi-limbed. Each limb carried a poisoned sword, and in the clash he stabbed Guilliman in the neck; Guilliman was interred in the Stasis field by the Apothecaries, and remains frozen in the instant of death, while Fulgrim escaped back to the Eye of Terror.

the rout wrote:
id much rather see dorn in the top 5 than angron and curze and thats saying something.

This doesn't say anything other than you don't like Angron and Curze... which is no reason to deny their combat prowess.

the rout wrote:
oh and the emperor and russ did duke it out when the emperor was recruiting russ. russ nearly took him two because the emperor wasnt a physical fighter.

The second "sentence" is one of the most ludicrous statements i've ever read... and THAT'S saying something

the rout wrote:the question that no one seems to be asking is was the HH purposefully orchestrated by the emperor to facilitate his ascension to godhood?

Indeed, no one is asking that question.


We get it, you like Leman Russ, too bad he failed to kill the one Primarch he was sent to kill...some executioner. Sure he broke his back and would have killed him if he hadn't ascended to Demon-Princedom... shoulda-woulda-coulda ...he didn't. Magnus is still a scourge to the galaxy.

Don't get me wrong, I love the space wolves and Leman Russ, but he is not the ultimate engine of destruction you'ld like him to be. The Space Wolves (as a whole) were designed to be the emperor's executioners... not necessarily Russ himself.

NagothDaCleaver wrote: We get it, you like Leman Russ, too bad he failed to kill the one Primarch he was sent to kill...some executioner. Sure he broke his back and would have killed him if he hadn't ascended to Demon-Princedom... shoulda-woulda-coulda ...he didn't. Magnus is still a scourge to the galaxy.

Good point, but since we are talking about a primarch fight, we can still consider the fact that Russ bested magnus in combat. I believe this achievement give him the right to be in the top 5.