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I've always been the fat kid. I'm that way because I'm lazy. Diets work, I lose a bunch then start getting bored eating the same stuff over and over then go back to my usual pizza & burgers diet, then the weight comes back, I find a new diet, lose some more and then rise and repeat.

I'd exercise more if I didn't have so many models to paint...

dogma wrote:

Hordini wrote:I think diet pop/soda is probably one of the worst things you can drink. Pop is horrible for you in general, but I think diet is probably even worse, especially because people seem to think "Oh it's diet, I can drink as much as I want!"

Unless you're diabetic or something, I don't see any reason to use artificial sweetener in anything, it's horrible.

I drink about 2 cases of Diet Pepsi a week, and I'm in better shape than just about everyone that isn't a professional athlete. Granted, I also exercise far more than most people, but the diet soda isn't holding me back.

I didn't mention it in my last post, but I will certainly give you that - I think lots of exercise will trump a lot of poor diet choices, as long as you're not lacking some important nutrient. Most people who are overweight could probably remain somewhat liberal with their diet if they simply increased their amount of exercise and kept it consistent. Others have said it, but the sedentary lifestyle is probably the most damaging. I realize this is anecdotal, but I know a lot of overweight people who try to change their diet around pretty often, but basically refuse to exercise, and they're all in the same shape they were when they started.

I guess what I'm saying is, yes, you can certainly drink a lot of diet pop or regular pop and still be healthy, but the time you spend exercising (or not) is going to be a huge factor.

On the other hand, 2 cases of a diet drink a week set you up for cancer.

Frazzled wrote:On the other hand, 2 cases of a diet drink a week set you up for cancer.

The theory is that aspartame breaks down into formaldehyde when your body metabolizes it, thus dosing anyone consuming diet soda with a known carcinogen. I've read the chain emails (I get a lot of these sorts of things, due mostly to my job), most of which are completely fabricated (anonymous information, anecdotes, etc.) or deliberates misquotes of real studies. Moreover, formaldehyde can be safely processed by several natural enzymes in the body. Aspartame does break down into formaldehyde, among other things, but my perusal of the research on the problem seems to indicate that the amount isn't sufficient to negatively affect normal operation.


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Hordini wrote: I realize this is anecdotal, but I know a lot of overweight people who try to change their diet around pretty often, but basically refuse to exercise, and they're all in the same shape they were when they started.

I see these people all the time. They come in to my gym, sign up, maybe attend for about a week, then never come back. They never cancel their membership, because just being a member makes them feel psychologically better about their weight and health, as they are theoretically further along the road to weight loss than they were before.

Hell, most gyms build their business model on the idea that a certain percentage of members, usually 20-25%, will never actually use the facilities. They're essentially free money.

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:On the other hand, 2 cases of a diet drink a week set you up for cancer.

The theory is that aspartame breaks down into formaldehyde when your body metabolizes it, thus dosing anyone consuming diet soda with a known carcinogen. I've read the chain emails (I get a lot of these sorts of things, due mostly to my job), most of which are completely fabricated (anonymous information, anecdotes, etc.) or deliberates misquotes of real studies. Moreover, formaldehyde can be safely processed by several natural enzymes in the body. Aspartame does break down into formaldehyde, among other things, but my perusal of the research on the problem seems to indicate that the amount isn't sufficient to negatively affect normal operation.

Your funeral. Stastically almost anything ingested over moderate amounts increases your likelihood of cancer. Due to family history I've been told diet anything is not worth the risk by my doc.

Also, aspartame can trigger wheezing in asthmatics, or so I heard.

So what's worse for ya? A daily 20oz diet coke/pepsi/mountain dew in the morning or 20oz coffee with powdered cream stuff and 6 splenda packets?

What? What the hell is wrong with people? Just don't eat! It's not hard to say "Nah, I'll just have a sprite and some potato chips for lunch instead of a burger and fries and a milkshake"

I'm sorry to say, I AM trying to offend people. Obesity didn't even exist until the industrial revolution because people didn't make enough money to eat as much as they do now.

Obesity should NEVER hit above 20% in an ideal society. 70% is seven in every ten people! Imagine that for a second. That means that there are over 200 million obese people in the united states.

I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

Samus_aran115 wrote:What? What the hell is wrong with people? Just don't eat! It's not hard to say "Nah, I'll just have a sprite and some potato chips for lunch instead of a burger and fries and a milkshake"

I'm sorry to say, I AM trying to offend people. Obesity didn't even exist until the industrial revolution because people didn't make enough money to eat as much as they do now.

Obesity should NEVER hit above 20% in an ideal society. 70% is seven in every ten people! Imagine that for a second. That means that there are over 200 million obese people in the united states.

I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

How old are you?

Samus_aran115 wrote:What? What the hell is wrong with people? Just don't eat! It's not hard to say "Nah, I'll just have a sprite and some potato chips for lunch instead of a burger and fries and a milkshake"

I love that you picked 'a Sprite and some potato chips' as your healthy alternative. Seriously. Adorable. I want to put you in my pocket, ocassionally getting you out to show to people.

I'm sorry to say, I AM trying to offend people. Obesity didn't even exist until the industrial revolution because people didn't make enough money to eat as much as they do now.

Where did you read that? It's nonsense. There were wealthy people before the Industrial Revolution. Just look at a picture of Henry VIII! He was super fat.

He was also rich The only fat people were the super rich and those who worked in churches (priests were often quite fat)

I'm using sprite and potato chips as an example to show what you could get at a similar restaurant where they serve burgers

Frazzled wrote:
Your funeral. Stastically almost anything ingested over moderate amounts increases your likelihood of cancer. Due to family history I've been told diet anything is not worth the risk by my doc.

I'm obviously not a doctor, and you should listen to yours, but most fruit juices and all alcoholic beverages contain, or break down into, far more methanol than aspartame. This also means they further break down into more formaldehyde. As you said, the issue isn't whether or not aspartame is toxic, but at what dosage it becomes toxic; which is the issue with all consumable substances.

The real question, though, is the aspartate that is derived from aspartame, and the effect that might have on the brain of a human; as opposed to the rodents used in most clinical studies.

Albatross wrote:Just look at a picture of Henry VIII! He was super fat.

Must have been the McDonalds in the Royal Food Court. His advisors suggested a salad

Granted, Henry was only fat in his later years. He suffered a sever injury during a jousting competition and it appears to have had adverse effects on his mental and physical health. He's not a very a good example

He probably had the finest food available to him,most of which I can imagine was fine meat and sugars from the western world. Probably a lot of stuff we know to be very bad for you

But I agree. My god what a tubolard!

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

Depending on your job, financial status, personal life, and a number of other factors it can be very hard.

Also, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, obesity doesn't mean fat, unhappy, or even inactive. It can be related to all of those things, but I think you would be surprised at the extent to which people you might regard as fit are in fact overweight or obese. Whether or not that is itself a health risk varies from physician to physician.

I think being happy has a lot to do with keeping you healthy Just something I've noticed. If you encourage someone to get healthy and make them feel good about it, it's a huge boost.

But yes, I agree. Overweight technically can mean 5 pounds over average Which I wouldn't call obese at all.

Frazzled wrote:On the other hand, 2 cases of a diet drink a week set you up for cancer.

And that's different from the way -everything- supposedly gives you cancer these days?

Hell, breathing kills us thanks to free radicals. I'm suprised we haven't been told to stop doing that yet

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

It also has to do with metabolism and stuff like that. I have a super fast metabolism, so fast in fact, that i have trouble keeping on enough weight to stay on the rugby team. oh, the plight of the skinny people.

Personallly for me, i am overweight and i dont care. I do need to lose weight, just havent found the right way that works for me.

I used to play DDR 4 hours a day 3 days a week and that killed the calories and such of that like.

As well i have a job that requires me to stand outside on the side of the road and dance my butt off holding a sign on the side of the road, that helps too. I barely drink soda, mostly water.

I know it isnt MUCH of a diet plan or workout plan but hey it works for me because it fits in my schedule ^_^ plus its fun.

rubiksnoob wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

It also has to do with metabolism and stuff like that. I have a super fast metabolism, so fast in fact, that i have trouble keeping on enough weight to stay on the rugby team. oh, the plight of the skinny people.

Your repeated trolling earlier in the thread has confused me regarding your intentions behind this statement... Either way, the latter part certainly strikes me as bragging

Samus_aran115 wrote:What? What the hell is wrong with people? Just don't eat! It's not hard to say "Nah, I'll just have a sprite and some potato chips for lunch instead of a burger and fries and a milkshake"

I'm sorry to say, I AM trying to offend people. Obesity didn't even exist until the industrial revolution because people didn't make enough money to eat as much as they do now.

Obesity should NEVER hit above 20% in an ideal society. 70% is seven in every ten people! Imagine that for a second. That means that there are over 200 million obese people in the united states.

I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

Quite hard, ever since I was born I've RECLINED in my chair in my room and only ever had to get off to make ready meals (obviously not as a kid...), use the loo and bathe. I dislike exercise, I loathe it. I'm fortunate to be from a skinny family and not have the fatness kick in yet, but even though I feel like it's starting, I'm still not motivated to change my nature: Exercise hurts, playing Dragon Age doesn't.

LordofHats wrote:

Albatross wrote:Just look at a picture of Henry VIII! He was super fat.

Must have been the McDonalds in the Royal Food Court. His advisors suggested a salad

Granted, Henry was only fat in his later years. He suffered a sever injury during a jousting competition and it appears to have had adverse effects on his mental and physical health. He's not a very a good example

I hear he required a crane to lift him onto his horse o.O

Henners91 wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:
I just can't understand it. No one in my family is obese, nor have we ever came close. We eat healthy, we live active lifestyles and we're happy. How hard is it to make those little changes in your lifestyle?

It also has to do with metabolism and stuff like that. I have a super fast metabolism, so fast in fact, that i have trouble keeping on enough weight to stay on the rugby team. oh, the plight of the skinny people.

Your repeated trolling earlier in the thread has confused me regarding your intentions behind this statement... Either way, the latter part certainly strikes me as bragging

I have on off bursts of troll behavior.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Wow... if the US didn't have so much poverty and lack proper social support, just imagine how overweight they could be! Europe wouldn't stand a chance!

Poverty correlates positively to obesity in the developed world. The level of poverty is a major reason the US has so many obese people.

In Australia we don't have as many poor people but we're fatter... that's because meat pies are awesome.


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Hordini wrote:I didn't mention it in my last post, but I will certainly give you that - I think lots of exercise will trump a lot of poor diet choices, as long as you're not lacking some important nutrient.

There's more to healthy eating that weight level though. You can eat take out every night and if you work hard enough and have a decent metabolism you can stay skinny... but all that fat will build up around your heart. You'll also lack the vitamins and nutrients of a complete diet.

Exercise will help you keep skinny, but it won't make you healthy.


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Samus_aran115 wrote:What? What the hell is wrong with people? Just don't eat! It's not hard to say "Nah, I'll just have a sprite and some potato chips for lunch instead of a burger and fries and a milkshake"

I'm sorry to say, I AM trying to offend people.

Just as a tip, you'll find in life that not everyone's personal experiences match exactly to your own. Some things that are simple for you, for whatever reason, might not be so simple for others, while areas where you struggle might be incredibly easy for them. As a result it's best not to judge.

sebster wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hordini wrote:I didn't mention it in my last post, but I will certainly give you that - I think lots of exercise will trump a lot of poor diet choices, as long as you're not lacking some important nutrient.

There's more to healthy eating that weight level though. You can eat take out every night and if you work hard enough and have a decent metabolism you can stay skinny... but all that fat will build up around your heart. You'll also lack the vitamins and nutrients of a complete diet.

Exercise will help you keep skinny, but it won't make you healthy.

I realize that, which is why I said exercise will trump a lot of poor diet choices, and not all, and noted that it hinged on not lacking any important nutrients. I realize that just exercising alone won't necessarily make you healthy, I guess my point was just that, in my experience, exercise is something that would make the biggest difference in many people's lives. A lot of the overweight people I see don't necessarily eat a massive number of unhealthy foods (for example I don't think I know anyone who eats fast food every day), it's just that they eat very large portions of otherwise nutritious foods, and never ever exercise. It seems to me that cases like this, portion control and exercise would make a bigger difference than a complete diet revamp.


Also dogma - I didn't think to ask earlier, but I've now become curious. Since you do exercise regularly and are in quite good shape, is there a particular reason that you drink diet instead of regular soda?

Samus_aran115 wrote:He was also rich The only fat people were the super rich and those who worked in churches (priests were often quite fat)

I'm using sprite and potato chips as an example to show what you could get at a similar restaurant where they serve burgers

Frazzled had addressed you, now answer him! He wants to know your age for his own nefarious purposes!

Since 'being rich' in capitalist terms was a very different thing in the past, perhaps you mean to say that 'people with access to resources became fat'. Now we all have access to these resources - in the developed world. Soft drink is cheaper than fruit juice (although it often contains less sugar), and diet drinks are often cheaper due to being overstocked. I for one eat too much (I just love food and the experience of eating interesting things) but am fortunately well within my BMI.

Another thing to note about 'sodas', presented in the form of a Wikipedia excerpt because this particular quote is referenced:

Sparkling mineral water is a negligible cause of dental erosion; also known as acid erosion. While the dissolution potential of sparkling water is greater than still water, levels remain low: by comparison, carbonated soft drinks cause tooth decay at a rate of several hundred times that of regular sparkling water.

While it is true that our dental hygiene is generally far better than in the past, our diets aren't helping! Knowlede of the implications will by no means always lead to positive action.


Off-topic, I love sushi.

Hordini wrote:I realize that, which is why I said exercise will trump a lot of poor diet choices, and not all, and noted that it hinged on not lacking any important nutrients. I realize that just exercising alone won't necessarily make you healthy, I guess my point was just that, in my experience, exercise is something that would make the biggest difference in many people's lives. A lot of the overweight people I see don't necessarily eat a massive number of unhealthy foods (for example I don't think I know anyone who eats fast food every day), it's just that they eat very large portions of otherwise nutritious foods, and never ever exercise. It seems to me that cases like this, portion control and exercise would make a bigger difference than a complete diet revamp.

Yeah, that's probably a reasonable summation.

Hordini wrote:
Also dogma - I didn't think to ask earlier, but I've now become curious. Since you do exercise regularly and are in quite good shape, is there a particular reason that you drink diet instead of regular soda?

The short of it is that my work schedule was really demanding, and didn't allow for a lot of sleep. This leads to a lot of caffeine use. I don't like coffee, and I couldn't fit regular soda into my normal diet, so I chose to drink diet.

Also, I vastly prefer the taste of diet soda, as I find normal soda horribly sweet by comparison.

One thing most people don't seem to understand is how their metabolism works. Starving yourself all day only makes it easier for you to gain weight, despite wishful thinking. Especially since you're more likely to binge after starving yourself all day.

Much of weight loss and management can be attained by simply increasing the amount of meals you eat every day while decreasing the meal size. You can eat the same amount and same food, but by spreading it out properly, you can increase your metabolism, making weight management much easier before you even start on a deit or excercise plan. Ideally, breakfast should be the biggest meal of the day, with dinner being the smallest. Of course, things rarely work out like that, but it's good to know.

Eating a little bit when you actually feel hungry is actually a good thing.

I love reading from all the youngsters in this thread bragging about how skinny they are, that they can eat what they want and not put on weight, that they don't have to exercise etc etc.

Newsflash; it *will* catch up to you. I used to be the same until I hit late 20's (28, 29 ish) and then I found the weight creeping on and becoming more difficult to shift. I am not overweight by any means but I have to watch what I eat now and it is all too easy to put on a pound or two and I used to be lucky enough never to put on weight or watch what I ate.

Just you lot wait! Tempus fugit and before you know it, you're into middle age spread.

filbert wrote:I love reading from all the youngsters in this thread bragging about how skinny they are, that they can eat what they want and not put on weight, that they don't have to exercise etc etc.

Newsflash; it *will* catch up to you. I used to be the same until I hit late 20's (28, 29 ish) and then I found the weight creeping on and becoming more difficult to shift. I am not overweight by any means but I have to watch what I eat now and it is all too easy to put on a pound or two and I used to be lucky enough never to put on weight or watch what I ate.

Just you lot wait! Tempus fugit and before you know it, you're into middle age spread.

QFT.

I've done a bit o' the bragging but even some of us younglings know that it's only temporary... so I can only try and eat as many kebabs in front of your age group as possible for now