LOVE SC and Diablo....fething hate Blizzard....

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**ShumaGorath**

LunaHound wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
LunaHound wrote:So the number doesnt add up vs the amount of subscribers.

Anyone want to 2nd guess how it adds to 88 mil?

From what we know atm:

40,000 x $13.99 = $559,600 per month. $6,715,200 per year

Warcraft $19.99 + Burning Crusade $29.99 + Litch King $39.99 = $ 89.97 x 40,000 = $3,598,800

Maybe say they offer pets as well , say average of $50 per person = $2,000,000

Feel free to add anything else i dunno

They weren't buying the games from the shell server luna. That doesn't even make sense. They're also likely not capable of charging for microtransaction upgrades like pets. That requires a full time staff, bank accounts, and significant work server side to implement.

They should be able to , unless their technology is going backwards. around 6 Years ago for Lineage 2 private server did the same thing with Lineage Aegis system.
The pets , armor upgrade , GM created weapons were all done through paypal "donations". Its not that hard as anyone with the command program can instant create the weapon through item ID + lvl enchant input.
Right after they confirm the "donation"

Theres a pretty big difference between doing it for a few hundred people and doing it for forty thousand. Forty thousand requires an automated process thats good enough not to cause financial troubles between you and your customers. It's also not implicitly stated that people payed for game time. Just that they made donations via paypall (a service that can not be automated to tie into "game time").

**Ifalna**

How about saying no to a social event to take part in a preorganised game of toy soldiers?

Addiction? Are the toy soldiers at fault? Is GW directly responsable for the players choice? Should it be made illegal?

Edit: I am intriqued by the figure too. I doubt the judge pulled the number out of his bum, 88 million seems very specific. Why not 80? 50?
Maybe with how much attention is being brought to this verdict, more information will appear. I guess it is all pretty new at the moment.

**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:so all drugs should be legal then?

There is a significant different between chemical addictions caused by illicit or misused substances and psychological addictions caused by forms of media. There are significantly different laws, treatment methods, and ways to cop. Theres a reason people laugh at WoW addicts and are concerned for crack addicts health and safety. It's because they are two different things and comparing them in this way implies your lack of experience with either.

**LunaHound**

ShumaGorath wrote:Theres a pretty big difference between doing it for a few hundred people and doing it for forty thousand. Forty thousand requires an automated process thats good enough not to cause financial troubles between you and your customers.

Titan server held 29k - 35k players , abit lower than 40,000 but if a team of 7 can do it ,

i would say yes.

**ShumaGorath**

LunaHound wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Theres a pretty big difference between doing it for a few hundred people and doing it for forty thousand. Forty thousand requires an automated process thats good enough not to cause financial troubles between you and your customers.

Titan server held 29k - 35k players , abit lower than 40,000 but if a team of 7 can do it ,

i would say yes.

Total, or at any given time online? For a shell server to have 40k active players at any time it likely contains four times that in total. It still however doesn't appear that they DID any of this, possibly accepting donations for altered stats or simply to keep the servers running. For a full on business model keeping track of forty+ thousand people you NEED accounting departments and an IT staff. Otherwise they're going to be up on federal charges for tax evasion, misreported earnings, and running pyramid schemes as well (which they aren't).

**IG_urban**

Ifalna wrote:How about saying no to a social event to take part in a preorganised game of toy soldiers?

Addiction? Are the toy soldiers at fault? Is GW directly responsable for the players choice? Should it be made illegal?

Never said WoW should be illegal. When you play WH, you are interacting with real people in real life.

LunaHound wrote:
IG_urban wrote:so all drugs should be legal then?

I would say yes but in reality i cannot because i know there are abusers that ruins it for the rest.

So you are saying a video game that is too much fun should be illegal?

Besides , addiction to video game is not the same as addicted to body chemical altering drugs.

Video game = you still can make conscious desissions

Drugs = impairs your judgement , its different no?

You think meth should be legal?

I agree the addiction is not the same physically, but it is mentally, and has the same effect on your life.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:
IG_urban wrote:so all drugs should be legal then?

There is a significant different between chemical addictions caused by illicit or misused substances and psychological addictions caused by forms of media. There are significantly different laws, treatment methods, and ways to cop. Theres a reason people laugh at WoW addicts and are concerned for crack addicts health and safety. It's because they are two different things and comparing them in this way implies your lack of experience with either.

I asked that question to be the devil's advocate, Shuma.

**LunaHound**

ShumaGorath wrote:
LunaHound wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:Theres a pretty big difference between doing it for a few hundred people and doing it for forty thousand. Forty thousand requires an automated process thats good enough not to cause financial troubles between you and your customers.

Titan server held 29k - 35k players , abit lower than 40,000 but if a team of 7 can do it ,

i would say yes.

Total, or at any given time online? For a shell server to have 40k active players at any time it likely contains four times that in total. It still however doesn't appear that they DID any of this.

I know i know , just let me look around since they have been caught long ago , its digging up old news ( and im in middle of WoW atm lol! )

**ShumaGorath**

You think meth should be legal?

I agree the addiction is not the same physically, but it is mentally, and has the same effect on your life.

No. The addictions are not the same mentally. Thats the entire point. The human brain doesn't addict itself to patterns of behavior or experiences to the severe degree that it can be addicted by foreign chemical substances. I think you may want to do some research into the neuroscience of addictions before you go comparing a videogame addiction to a methamphetamine addiction. Comparing a videogame addiction to a meth addiction is like comparing a four year old with a life vest to Michael phelps in the water.

**IG_urban**

you are still referring to the physical addictions aspect.

**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:you are still referring to the physical addictions aspect.

All addictions are physical addictions. There is no part of our brain that isn't a physical part. Our souls aren't whats getting addicted to WoW or heroin.

**LunaHound**

This is all i can find so far , the incident is hard to find since the links atm all goes to what it seems to be the remake of that p-server
http://www.killerbetties.com/fbi_ncsoft_close_down_computer_game_operation_more_to_the_story
http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.php?t=148883&page=2

If you want to do more search on your own then use these info:

Original server site: http://www.l2extreme.com/
Owner: Shmee
Main Programer: Bot God
HGM: Hamidouch Developer SiL3nT Anne Dizzan
GM: Softy LunaWing Neosinner Heart-less Dreamgun

**garret**

IG_urban wrote:
garret wrote:I think it is good. She is making up for there lost revenue. I know some people who say "We should have to pay to play" which i disagree. blizz need the money to improve the game and keep it going. Also why do we need to destroy wow?

I have a problem with any game that, on a large scale, interferes with living life...

A buddy of mine was invited by his cousin who had just received an exponentially large inheritance to tour Europe for 2 weeks over last break from school. He was going to pay for everything for my friend, and give him a huge chunk of spending money, no strings attached, because he wanted people to go with him....my friend declined because he has raids all that week........

This is a small example of the idiocy that I see from WoW gamers, just in MY circle of friends, and I hear worse and read more horror stories all of the time...

I think it's disgusting.

Playing for 6 hours on a saturday, or even all weekend, cool, I have done it with certain games...but I can turn them off whenever I want.....people that play WoW, a large part of them at least, treat it like a job....I can't tell you how many times I have heard "oh I can't hang out tonight I have raid"..."dude! but we are going to see our buddy we havn't seen in a year! he's back from Iraq!" "sorry, I have raid"......or something to that effect.

A. not everthing you read is true. If it was the world would suck
B.that is a small fraction of players.
C. why shouldnt people br able to play a game they like?

**IG_urban**

google WoW addiction...that is not a small fraction of players.

**LunaHound**

I know its serious but...

Drug = chemical induced addiction , is how your body react to the intake.

Video game = Its fun , its not how your body react to the chemical , just reaction of your weak will. To not be able to stop yourself.

**garret**

I agree with luna. it is different from drugs. and just becuase you dont like it you doesnt mean we should get rid of it.

**RustyKnight**

IG_urban wrote:google WoW addiction...that is not a small fraction of players.

Google D&D addiction. That game kills! Dungeons and Dragons is a farout game.

**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:google WoW addiction...that is not a small fraction of players.

Objection: Irrelevant.

**IG_urban**

LunaHound wrote:I know its serious but...

Drug = chemical induced addiction , is how your body react to the intake.

Video game = Its fun , its not how your body react to the chemical , just reaction of your weak will. To not be able to stop yourself.

You can stop drugs any day, at any time. I quit cigarettes, one of the hardest to quit, and that is proven, cold turkey, after smoking for 5+ years. It complacency and laziness, in both counts, that is the culprit. Both games, and drugs, can have the same effects on your family and social life, addicted WoW players can also suffer physical ailments; weight gain, atrophy, malnutrition, etc, due to their addiction. Let me remind you, that somebody has also died as a DIRECT consequence from WoW addiction.

garret wrote:I agree with luna. it is different from drugs. and just becuase you dont like it you doesnt mean we should get rid of it.

If you go back and read my first post, I said "I" think...implying my opinion. And I did not expand upon until people asked me why I said that, so your statement is not needed, thank you.

ShumaGorath wrote:
IG_urban wrote:google WoW addiction...that is not a small fraction of players.

Objection: Irrelevant.

wrong.

**kaidsin**

also....I think WoW should be destroyed.

This would cause a sudden flood of people who no real motivation or social skills who are easily manipulated by psychologists into the world!

**IG_urban**

hahaha so true.

**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:hahaha so true.

Said while posting on a toy forum at 1AM.

**IG_urban**

OOOH! nice trolling!

I'm in college at midterms, you can't say gak. I don't sleep.

**ShumaGorath**

IG_urban wrote:OOOH! nice trolling!

I'm in college at midterms, you can't say gak. I don't sleep.

Posted, again, on a toy forum. Don't pretend your better then a WoW player, stop projecting your own social failures onto others.

**Arctik_Firangi**

I also don't see how either of those directly correlate to social failures except in the terms of a sweeping generalisation.

**Ruckdog**

Ifalna wrote:How about saying no to a social event to take part in a preorganised game of toy soldiers?

Addiction? Are the toy soldiers at fault? Is GW directly responsable for the players choice? Should it be made illegal?

Edit: I am intriqued by the figure too. I doubt the judge pulled the number out of his bum, 88 million seems very specific. Why not 80? 50?
Maybe with how much attention is being brought to this verdict, more information will appear. I guess it is all pretty new at the moment.

Really? Does anybody read the OP?

A total of $3,052,339 in gross revenues was also uncovered by Blizzard, who “submitted satisfactory evidence from the third-party PayPal Inc.,” stated the judge’s order.

Scapegaming, operated by Reeves, allowed users to access World of Warcraft without using official Blizzard servers, thereby circumventing subscription fees. The total award took into account the number of active users within the Scapegaming community. A U.S. District court judge took the size of the community, 427,000 users, and multiplied that figure by $200 “per act of circumvention.” The award totaled over $3 million in disgorged profits, $85.4 million in statutory damages and $64,000 in attorney fees.

So, there you go. the bulk of the $88 mil is from the statutory fine of $200 per user. Personally, I think Blizzard has rights to the $3 mil in illicit profits and the attorney fees, but again, it wasn't Blizzard that made the call on the size of the judgement.

**IG_urban**

ShumaGorath wrote:
IG_urban wrote:OOOH! nice trolling!

I'm in college at midterms, you can't say gak. I don't sleep.

Posted, again, on a toy forum. Don't pretend your better then a WoW player, stop projecting your own social failures onto others.

ok, Kenneth Eng.

Always making generalizations as usual, I'm not projecting anything, prick. I'm not projecting or acting like I am better than a WoW player, and if you are so concerned with how elementary it is to post on a toy forum, then why do you strive so hard to be right and a know-it-all troll all of the time?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:
Ifalna wrote:How about saying no to a social event to take part in a preorganised game of toy soldiers?

Addiction? Are the toy soldiers at fault? Is GW directly responsable for the players choice? Should it be made illegal?

Edit: I am intriqued by the figure too. I doubt the judge pulled the number out of his bum, 88 million seems very specific. Why not 80? 50?
Maybe with how much attention is being brought to this verdict, more information will appear. I guess it is all pretty new at the moment.

Really? Does anybody read the OP?

A total of $3,052,339 in gross revenues was also uncovered by Blizzard, who “submitted satisfactory evidence from the third-party PayPal Inc.,” stated the judge’s order.

Scapegaming, operated by Reeves, allowed users to access World of Warcraft without using official Blizzard servers, thereby circumventing subscription fees. The total award took into account the number of active users within the Scapegaming community. A U.S. District court judge took the size of the community, 427,000 users, and multiplied that figure by $200 “per act of circumvention.” The award totaled over $3 million in disgorged profits, $85.4 million in statutory damages and $64,000 in attorney fees.

So, there you go. the bulk of the $88 mil is from the statutory fine of $200 per user. Personally, I think Blizzard has rights to the $3 mil in illicit profits and the attorney fees, but again, it wasn't Blizzard that made the call on the size of the judgement.

I think they have the rights to at LEAST 10 mil myself....but statutory damages of 85 MIL? That's flagrant.

**ShumaGorath**

ok, Kenneth Eng.

Always making generalizations as usual, I'm not projecting anything, prick. I'm not projecting or acting like I am better than a WoW player,

This would cause a sudden flood of people who no real motivation or social skills who are easily manipulated by psychologists into the world!

hahaha so true.

You should find out who is posting under your account then, it certainly seems like you are doing THE EXACT THING YOU JUST SAID YOU WEREN'T.

But hey, farbeit for me to point out when you act juvenile in an amusing and ironic fashion.

**halonachos**

I downloaded something illegally once. I was 12 and I didn't know what copyright meant though. After I found out that napster was illegal I dropped it and when limewire came around I never bothered looking at it.

**IG_urban**

ShumaGorath wrote:
ok, Kenneth Eng.

Always making generalizations as usual, I'm not projecting anything, prick. I'm not projecting or acting like I am better than a WoW player,

This would cause a sudden flood of people who no real motivation or social skills who are easily manipulated by psychologists into the world!
hahaha so true.

You should find out who is posting under your account then, it certainly seems like you are doing THE EXACT THING YOU JUST SAID YOU WEREN'T.

But hey, farbeit for me to point out when you act juvenile in an amusing and ironic fashion.

The original quote did not indicate that EVERY player of WoW is like that...just a large percentage....if you disagree, come to my school or UW. and even by agreeing with the statement, does not mean I am better than them. Just because somebody points out things that run as constants about a certain group of people, does not mean they are better than them. In Seattle's Belltown neighborhood, most of the black people are homeless, smoke and deal crack, and generally cause a ruckus. It's true, it's fact, ask anybody here. Am I better than them? No. Do I disagree with what they do and find it disgusting? Yes. Does this apply to all black people? of course not, but in this area, due to one MAIN underlying cause (crack), it is fact. So take that as an extrapolation of my point. For the most part, in my experience, a large percent of the people I see playing wow, fit into said category of the quote, which is why I laughed and agreed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

halonachos wrote:I downloaded something illegally once. I was 12 and I didn't know what copyright meant though. After I found out that napster was illegal I dropped it and when limewire came around I never bothered looking at it.

**ShumaGorath**

Always making generalizations as usual, I'm not projecting anything, prick. I'm not projecting or acting like I am better than a WoW player,

The original quote did not indicate that EVERY player of WoW is like that...just a large percentage....if you disagree, come to my school or UW. and even by agreeing with the statement, does not mean I am better than them. Just because somebody points out things that run as constants about a certain group of people, does not mean they are better than them. In Seattle's Belltown neighborhood, most of the black people are homeless, smoke and deal crack, and generally cause a ruckus. It's true, it's fact, ask anybody here. Am I better than them? No. Do I disagree with what they do and find it disgusting? Yes. Does this apply to all black people? of course not, but in this area, due to one MAIN underlying cause (crack), it is fact. So take that as an extrapolation of my point. For the most part, in my experience, a large percent of the people I see playing wow, fit into said category of the quote, which is why I laughed and agreed.

And you're the one calling me names.