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Monster Rain wrote:

Amaya wrote:There's no reason why Abaddon should be able to take one on.

Have I been dosed, or have I read somewhere that Abaddon is a clone of Horus?

That's incorrect. Just a rumour.

I agree, primarchs are stronger than normal marines. That said I'm glad your primarch isnt as ridiculous as some i have seen. I do think he need eternal warrior though, kinda pointless otherwise imo.

cl4nj4def4lcon wrote:I do think he need eternal warrior though

Rowboat is Dead/In Stasis.

Lol Irony.

In any case, I really do not think Primarchs can be properly done in a D6/0-10 system. If 40k were a D20 system, it would be a bit easier.

I think part of the problem with the 1-10 system is that a lot of the numbers aren't even used. Is there even anything in game with t9/t10?

Most stuff seems bunched up around 3-5.

Amaya wrote:I think part of the problem with the 1-10 system is that a lot of the numbers aren't even used. Is there even anything in game with t9/t10?

Most stuff seems bunched up around 3-5.

Blame the new game design. In Rogue Trader and 2nd edition you would see all sorts of different numbers being thrown around.

Heck, take a Human Major Hero in Rogue Trader: Mv4 WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W3 I6 A3 LD9 Int9 Cl9 WP9. If you made a human character like that today, people would say "omg wtf! He's as tough as a space marine! Nooooooooo!!!! He's as good as an Eldar autarch in combat! I am gaking my pants because its not FLUFFY ASDFPAOIDGHAPOIGHAPOEGI"

What's the equivalent of a human major hero these days: An Imperial guard company commander? WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I3 A3 LD9. There's a pretty big difference there.

An Eldar Major Hero: Mv5 WS7 BS7 S4 T4 W3 I9 A3 LD10 INT10 CL10 WP10
An Eldar Autarch: WS6 BS6 S3 T3 W3 I6 A3 LD10

Not to big of a difference in LD, WS, and BS, but note the differences in toughness and initiative! Super big difference there.

For way too long 40k has been having problems with its reined in stats. If it was more like Fantasy it'd be a much better game.

Weapon/Ballistic skill aint what it was back then, vlad. It's pretty null to have I9 nowadays, that's why they don't have it. I5 will usually go first, so why go higher? They ARE trying to be true to the fluff.

Human heros are actually comparatively that strong, if you look at how many we get.

For instance, a grey knight from Rogue Trader would dispatch that major hero with a S10 psi-blast from his force weapon that has a built-in bolter.

Ordo Dakka wrote:Weapon/Ballistic skill aint what it was back then, vlad. It's pretty null to have I9 nowadays, that's why they don't have it. I5 will usually go first, so why go higher? They ARE trying to be true to the fluff.

It's only because the stats are so lumped together that I5 will go first most of the time, dontchaknow.

Sure I9 isn't very useful nowadays, but it was very useful back in RT when you consider that a lot of models could have I5 compared to now.

Human heros are actually comparatively that strong, if you look at how many we get.

For instance, a grey knight from Rogue Trader would dispatch that major hero with a S10 psi-blast from his force weapon that has a built-in bolter.

Is this a White Dwarf add-on? Cause I know that Grey Knight librarians had access to Mental Blast (Str8, D6 damage, only psychic saves allowed) but that was the best "blast" psionic power that I know of. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though. : )

Of course, then again, psychic saves were a WP test so Human Major Heros with a WP of 9 could easily avoid the attack. : )

Somehow posted to the wrong thread entirely.

agree...
But i still state my opinion: Primarchs pretty much cant have statlines over 7 (or 8 with certain ones).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah! Solon, dont whine about saying "ur"
(its lame)

Gwar! wrote:

Suicidal Cheez wrote:4 wounds on a Primach? So you say Marneus Calgar is of the same importance as Rob?

No. If anything Calgar should have 0.5 wounds.

I agree with the whole .5 wounds thing but i swear the guy is half chicken..... even after he lsot that half wound he just runs around clucking scratching anything in his way until the bloodflow has stopped.... then Khorn breaks out his famous shaken bake recipe

oh yeah! when primarchs became deamon princes, they became stronger and tougher...
(even better than emperor himself... )

i hate you all
you can not fathom the amount of hate i'm generating

do you like apple?

from what i remember alpharius died like a little pansy
just because you're upset that your chapter isn't the one coming out in that movie
or the game


Roboute Guilliman 375pts

WS 7
BS 5
S 5
T 6
W 5
I 6
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2+/3++


Gauntlets of Ultramar (2 powerfists with the shooting profile of 24" S4 AP2 Assault 2)
Armour of Macragge (terminator armour that bestows FNP and has a locator beacon)
Protection of The God Emperor (3+ invulnerable save to Guilliman and a 5+ to his squad)
Writ of the Codex (Devastators and Assault Marines become scoring units, in addition models with Combat Tactics can chose to pas or fail any moral test called upon WITHOUT taking wounds for combat resolution)
"Sever the Head, Slay the Body" (Reroll all fail to hits and wounds against IC and MC)
Eternal Warrior
Counter Attack


how do you like them apples?

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:One of the most reasonable ones that I have heard so far.

well thank you
i just had a little Noto rage
it happens from time to time
like when people think using a libby with GOI and a combat squad with melta is a good way to pop LR's

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

NoToTheMan wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:One of the most reasonable ones that I have heard so far.

well thank you
i just had a little Noto rage
it happens from time to time
like when people think using a libby with GOI and a combat squad with melta is a good way to pop LR's

Sorry bud, still doesn't mean I think Ultramarines fluff is bland and uninteresting.

it's just the most readily available
if you were raised on fancy gourmet food you entire life and you had some french food you would actually like it because it's different (but who would like the french?)

DakkaDakka wrote:

I think ill write one up

Orkeosaurus - 1500 pts

ws 1, bs 1, t 1 str 1 , wounds 1, ld 2, save n/a
havnt decided special rules yet. What you guys think?

Well firstly I think Primarchs should have way better stats then freakin Abby, regardless who hates space marines, emperor, primarchs , etc.

1. They are only allowed to be used in apoc battles.

Reason: these guys where running around at the head of legions(10,000 and up strong) no way they would be leading small unit unless some special campaign scenario

2. All Primarchs have Primarch Rule Outline(for example look at Age of The Emperor rules, IMO they balanced them fairly good) and of course there few unique rules and tweaks to states to make them diff.

Reason: This way there is at least basic rule set so things dont get too crazy, think of it as a Primarch race or something of the sort

3. Almost all of the Loyalist primarchs are dead(price for being badasses )

I also have a copy of not just Angron Daemon Prince rules but a few others that I believe where published by GW

Are you saying that a Necron pariah is stronger than a Primarch? An ork warboss is stronger than a primarch? Iron Hand stracken is as tough and stronger than a primarch?

Yeah... nah bro. A punch from Rogal Dorn knocked Garros senseless, a T4 SM was knocked senseless by a punch not even intended to be that hard. Horus carves his way through plague bearers like their butter. You can tell em that their only as strong as a normal marine. Hell, chaplain cassius is even tougher than Gulliman under your rules.

EmilCrane wrote:Are you saying that a Necron pariah is stronger than a Primarch? An ork warboss is stronger than a primarch? Iron Hand stracken is as tough and stronger than a primarch?

No.

Just Rowboat.

If i was coming up with a stat line for a primarch then this what it would look like:

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
7 5 5 5 4 6 5 10 2+/4+

but in saying that the stats will be different for all primarchs.

no primarch should be below T6, the reasons:

Fulgrim gets hit by wraithlord, and lives, T4/5 means
instant death.

Corax gets twin lasscannon to the chest, and lives

all primarchs should be monstrous creatures:

Corax rips the sponson off a predator

Nighthaunter tears several marines appart bare handed(OK with armoUred hands)

And Rowboat Does bugger all during the Crusade, Bugger all during the Heresy, conveniently gets to Terra after all the other Manly legions are whittled to near nothing and the most awesome Primarchs are either dead or seriously battered, manipulates Dorn and his daddy issues to slaughter off most his legion so he becomes even weaker, then writes a book and dies in the first fight he actually tries anything more ambitious than drinking a cup of tea by getting a poison blade to the frakking thoat.

Remember kids, Writing Books= Bad. Makes you weak.

Formosa - Dont bring fluff into it.
If that was the case, all marines would have 2 wounds etc and be able to tear through most armies with no problem.

This isnt a book, its the rules, which do need balance.


I think anything over S5 or T5 is pretty pointless.
If your going to make them stronger, use a weapon to do so.
They are not all combat beasts or sharp shooters, each change thier army around them.



Also, if your going by books, marines should use multi-lazors!
But they dont, as the fluff in a book is just plain dumb and out of place.
Not to mention unbalanced.

Lord Chiasson wrote:Well firstly I think Primarchs should have way better stats then freakin Abby, regardless who hates space marines, emperor, primarchs , etc.

1. They are only allowed to be used in apoc battles.

Reason: these guys where running around at the head of legions(10,000 and up strong) no way they would be leading small unit unless some special campaign scenario

2. All Primarchs have Primarch Rule Outline(for example look at Age of The Emperor rules, IMO they balanced them fairly good) and of course there few unique rules and tweaks to states to make them diff.

Reason: This way there is at least basic rule set so things dont get too crazy, think of it as a Primarch race or something of the sort

3. Almost all of the Loyalist primarchs are dead(price for being badasses )

I also have a copy of not just Angron Daemon Prince rules but a few others that I believe where published by GW

Thats false due At least 8 are dead. 4 loyalists and 6 traitors survive
Corax, Vulkan, Leman Russ, Khan, survived, and the traitors that survive are Magnus, Petraubo, The Nurgle guy, Logar, Angron, and Fulgrim.

And just to edumacate people:

Traitors are all Daemon Princes, Corax and Vulkan are missing, Russ is in the EoT and Khan is in the Webway.

Captain Solon wrote:
The Emperors hand is a master crafted relic blade. it grants a single parry save, in close combat per turn. this means if he is hit, roll a D6 and ignore this attack. cannot be taken against units with a higher I then him, and is granted against the most powerful attack damage he takes.

I cannot for the life of me bring myself to read the whole thread so forgive me if someone has already mentioned this.
So all you have to do is roll a d6 and that's it? Sounds pretty fething amazing if you ask me.
feth the 1 always fails rule I will make a rule that does not matter what the number you get, even if it is a score of 7 on one dice!

I love reading these, Im not hating or anything but re read the post before you hit submit ma man.

Also lovely discussion going on in the last page is see.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Formosa - Dont bring fluff into it.
If that was the case, all marines would have 2 wounds etc and be able to tear through most armies with no problem.

This isnt a book, its the rules, which do need balance.


I think anything over S5 or T5 is pretty pointless.
If your going to make them stronger, use a weapon to do so.
They are not all combat beasts or sharp shooters, each change thier army around them.



Also, if your going by books, marines should use multi-lazors!
But they dont, as the fluff in a book is just plain dumb and out of place.
Not to mention unbalanced.

yes i will bring fluff into it, as it is pretty much all we have to go on, in no way are my sugestions OP
I said T6, NOT eternal warrior, i backed up my statement with examples of why they should have T6
I said monstrous creature NOT str9000!!!! monstrous creature, I do agree str5 is about right though for gullyman.

I do however totally disagree that useing a weapon to make them stronger is a good idea, I am against alot of special rules cluttering up the character

my personal take on a Average primarch (as a starting point, raise or lower stats depending on primarch)

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
7 5 5 6 4 6 5 10 3+/4++
special rules: monstrous, fearless "insert unique primarch power here"

thats it, now my justification

A primarch is better than a space marine chapter master in CQC in most if not all cases (Ref, lucifer blacks and Alpharius)
A primarch i would say is pretty much equal to a chapter master in shooting, but only because of the limitations of the 1-10 system
A primarch is stronger than a chapter master in every sense (ref, any fluff regarding the primarchs)
A primarch can most definatly take more punishment than a chapter master, i cannot however justify 5 wounds
A primarch is also faster then a chapter master in most if not all cases
A primarch can dish out alot more dammage than a chapter master hence 5 attacks
the 3+sv is because power armour is power armour, i assume certain primarchs would have articifer armour, others wouldnt (ref, Alpharius)