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You know, I was pissing my pants in excitement over the new DE models...but I'm not so sure the rules are going to be as good.

I mean look, the only 5th edition xeno codex to come out so far was Tyranids. They were sort of okay upon release, but not really up to the standards of other 5th edition codices like Space Wolves or Blood Angels (or even Guard, which was written by the same guy :\...and I know BA came out after 'nids but it was still better, lol). Not only that, but they had to wait six months for an FAQ, and when the FAQ did come out they got screwed over and made even worse than they were.

I'm not saying 'nids suck, but they're certainly not as good as any of the Marine codices, or Guard. I know GW would have to be monumentally fething stupid to make the DE codex suck, after taking such a huge risk in redoing the entire range to begin with (basically the pet project of their best sculptor)...but still, I think I might wait until the FAQ comes out before buying the bulk of my army.

In fact, Sidstyler is right about the codices.
It appears that DE will get some fancy boosts in cc. But the problem can be to get there.

I updated the first post, updates in Dark Red.

Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

This counters one of the basic issues in a DE army, the fragility of Raiders.
They seem to become faster and more resilient.

Question: If the Raider moves +2D6'', can the mounted squad still disembark and charge?

wuestenfux wrote:[Question: If the Raider moves +2D6'', can the mounted squad still disembark and charge?

Only as a template missile, I guess

So we had specific wytch weapons in 3rd edition then reverted to all wytch weapons being the same with the codex update, and now we are back to specific wytch weapons in the new codex.....So any bets as to what will happen with the wytch weapons in the next codex update.....?

del'Vhar wrote:

I'd imagine the possibility to get a S10 Lord will have a mitigating factor or something?

Well your lord has to kill 2 independent characters or monsterous creatures first. I imagine you'll need a very lucky day to achieve that before turn 4. And then, what do you do with it?

Dark eldar are very unusual with these momentum mechanics, like this piece of wargear or strength through pain. I'm very excited to play with them.

Well, that's my point. Its definitely hard to kill one or more units in the course of the game.
Then you have a Lord with S10 and suddenly the game ends. Pointless.

Does the "Power from Pain" work only in close combat or shooting as well?

Little tokens following the units on the board? OK, whatever. Might work ( or not ). I am just not overtly enthusiastic about adding more excess ( non-model ) pieces on the board. Considering that there usually are more than enough of them already ( dice, wrecks etc. ).

Can't help feeling this tokens thing is a nearly said token gesture
It feels a bit gimmicky to me. Looks good at first but as pointed out above, in a 6 turn game...

Will just have to see how it pans out. Would rather have some concrete benefits.

Having said that I quite like the concept. I guess it rewards aggressive play style. But it isn't as though DE are going to sit back and wait for the other chap.

Guess who is going to be releasing some fancy-dan plastic DE tokens in November?

This rules might be hard to make use of them in 1500p games, I agree. But in Apocalypse games...

G_Model101 wrote:So we had specific wytch weapons in 3rd edition then reverted to all wytch weapons being the same with the codex update, and now we are back to specific wytch weapons in the new codex.....So any bets as to what will happen with the wytch weapons in the next codex update.....?

My guess is that they'll have the fancy weapons in some form. If there is suppose to be an "Elite" and "Troop" version of the same squad, I could see this being an aspect of their distinction. That with the "Elite" choice any number may upgrade their weapons, while the troop choice only allows the "Exarch" equivalent to.

Saldiven wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:I'm going to be curious to see what the point costs on the Incubi are. I mean, let's break it down - T3, S3, A2 and a 3+ save. I'm assuming they'll have WS4 since the leader gets WS5. The klaives give them +1S, so now they're up to S4. With their WS4, S4, and 3+ save, they're MEQs with power weapons that get another attack when they roll a 6? How many points is that going to be? While I'd like to see these guys being cheap, for that many special rules, I can see them easily being overcosted and unusable like SM Vanguard Vets.

Don't forget that they're still T3, which is a pretty big disadvantage compared to MEq.

Toughness is near irrelevant if you have enuogh Strength, initiative and attacks to destoy them, and the Pain points will help somewhat to surviving the following round


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:

Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

They seem to become faster and more resilient.

As has every other transport and tank in the game

This strength bonus seems to be rather unfluffy.
DE start a raiding party making slaves and then disappear.
They are not Berzerkers or Blood Crushers.

Kroothawk wrote:It's +1 BS, a typo from the original poster, flying back to Spain directly after GD UK

That was so obviously obvious

Wait, +1 BS can make a difference.

so... I see the buildup token thing as being a way to keep them being useful towards the end of the game when your fragile units have been beat up so what you got left has some 'mojo'

it also makes them kinda of more powerful against MSU builds, since its more likely you will wipe a small unit than a big one...just saying.

What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

And what happens when we get our hands on the Codex, and find out a lot of these rumours were Red Herrings?

Come on guys, you know better than to depend on Web Rumours for any kind of accuracy, yes?

Mojo is not going to work against larger mobz or broods.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

I always felt that a Warrior squad needs more than 2 splinter cannons.
I only gave them to Raider squads.

Was referring to the mojo as Wuesten put it

Come on Mr M don't spoil the fun
In any case we just smile knowingly and say I knew all along that was going to be in...

Erasoketa wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

Mr Mystery wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:What happens against orksey hordes or omnom'nids though?

Then Splinter Rifles, Splinter Cannons and Splinter Carbines happen. Poison, poison everywhere! Splinter Cannon was rumoured to have 2 shooting modes, to choose between Assault 3 or Heavy 6.

Or use your mobility to combine fire from a couple of squads, then send in the Wyches. You know, using tactics beyond 'kill it with fire'

Well, cover is almost everywhere and thus larger mobz or broods hardly die from shooting. Bad news in the 5th ed.

what happens when a squad of Dark eldar hit a big mob of orks or nids? The same thing that will happen to all lightly armored elite troops.

they will kill a few and get chomped down under 40-90 attack dice.

So jump them with multiple squads. You know, using your mobility.

Reckon we'll see some Flameresque weapons in the book.

I always think its funny when people pose these clearly one sided hypotheticals... the simple fact is when something is so potentially one sided you don't allow yourself to get in that situation. The units rules shouldn't be playing the game for you.

To reiterare
when I posed the question it was more specifically with regard to the tokens and wiping out units
It is one thing to get buffed if you beat up a small/medium unit and run it off the table.
But if up against a horde army the token buff looks a loooong way off!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:To reiterare
when I posed the question it was more specifically with regard to the tokens and wiping out units
It is one thing to get buffed if you beat up a small/medium unit and run it off the table.
But if up against a horde army the token buff looks a loooong way off!

It's very true that earning these tokens will be more difficult against horde type armies, but shouldn't be impossible. Horde type armies should result in fewer overall tokens being gained, but that's pretty obvious when compared to an MSU type build.