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Orkeosaurus wrote:Space Wolves are the smart kid in class who never shows up on time because he's hungover.

love this line annd must agree

..........and not because i was that kid in high school

No more dumb than any other Marine. They just have a different culture.

Well lots of space marines are afraid of things like teleportation, drop pods and jump packs and I thought space marines couldn't get drunk....

Again there is a differance between being afraid of something and not trusting it. And it has already been stated as to how the Space Wolves can get drunk.

And for the record, the wolves drink Mead when they get pissed, not the Ale.
It's all in the first Space Wolf book

Müller wrote:And for the record, the wolves drink Mead when they get pissed, not the Ale.
It's all in the first Space Wolf book

They've been recording drinking both mead and ale.

Fenris, being the sort of place it is, would likely to be able to produce hops (can grow in cool regions) than great amounts of honey. Somehow a flowery springtime seems inappropriate... but I suppose it can't all be grim and dark.

Ale:

Sw ale is laced with chemicals and poisons that overcome Asartes physiology.

Made by the SW themselves knowing that their bodies will eventually overcome the toxins.

They dont go into battle drunk.

Ale Ale we want more ale
Everybody's cheerin'
Get the fethin' beer in!!...

ah happy days

sorry all this talk of ale has made me reminisce.

Which actually makes me think that there are a lot of chaps on Dakka who proudly mention their drinking credentials.
If SW's are dumb on the basis of being beery boozers, by implication so are a goodly (badly?) proportion of Dakkites!

I'm tea total so that makes me a genius

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
I'm tea total so that makes me a genius

And designated driver?

not so clever after all!

Yeah he just made himself designated Thunderhawk pilot for the raid.

im not even going to read any of this topic but the title. and my answer: YES! dumber than rocks

Well I guess that well thought out and elequently argued post puts this one to bed!

you're very welcome. anytime

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:It just sounds like somebody lost a game to some space wolves recently...

Not at all. I'm trying to figure out which codex to use. It's between BA and SW. SW seems like a stronger 'dex, but their fluff is pants-on-head dumb in a lot of places. There are also no successor chapters, no real reason for a DIY to use SW rules, nothing. You're either Space Wolves or not. Unfortunately, I had a lot of my DIY fluff already established, and a Blood Angels successor fits it better due to the emphasis on recruiting based on intelligence and tactical acumen - but I like the SW codex more. Just trying to get a benchmark for how intelligent the Space Wolves are, as their codex has them coming off as quite feral and, obviously, wolf-like, and while a wolf might be cunning, I wouldn't say it was intelligent.

From what I know, there was a Space Wolves successor chapter called the Wolf Brothers. They didn't last long though, they suffered mutations from the Wulfen curse caused by the Canis Helix and were disbanded.

Um I hate to break it to you but your reasoning for posting this topic is completly contradictory, nowhere in any part of GW does it say that in order to use a certain codex you HAVE to play the chapter it represents or any of it's successors and I would be interested to find out where you got the idea because in 10 years of gaming this is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. If a player wanted to they could use the Vanilla Space Marine codex to represent Space Wolves, or Black Templars to represent Blood Angels. There is also a great thing called "counts as" in which you create a chapter and have it "counts as" another.

For instance I created a Maori themed chapter awhile back which was created with full intent of being represented using the Space Wolves codex. That dosen't mean that I had to make the chapter a successor of the Space Wolves or give them any relation at all. And besides that I believe that it has been shown more then adiquitly that the Space Wolves are not as you put it "pants-on-head dumb" and are in fact far from it. I'm not even sure how the fluff of the chapter can suggest that they're dumb either unless you completly missinterpreted what was said, "barbaric" yes but not dumb. In any way. Except for maybe Sven from the books, he's kind of special

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Um I hate to break it to you but your reasoning for posting this topic is completly contradictory, nowhere in any part of GW does it say that in order to use a certain codex you HAVE to play the chapter it represents or any of it's successors and I would be interested to find out where you got the idea because in 10 years of gaming this is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. If a player wanted to they could use the Vanilla Space Marine codex to represent Space Wolves, or Black Templars to represent Blood Angels. There is also a great thing called "counts as" in which you create a chapter and have it "counts as" another.

For instance I created a Maori themed chapter awhile back which was created with full intent of being represented using the Space Wolves codex. That dosen't mean that I had to make the chapter a successor of the Space Wolves or give them any relation at all. And besides that I believe that it has been shown more then adiquitly that the Space Wolves are not as you put it "pants-on-head dumb" and are in fact far from it. I'm not even sure how the fluff of the chapter can suggest that they're dumb either unless you completly missinterpreted what was said, "barbaric" yes but not dumb. In any way. Except for maybe Sven from the books, he's kind of special

That doesn't really work for people who like fluff, though. There's no reason anybody but Space Wolves would have Rune Priests or Thunderwolf Cavalry or actual wolves as troop choices. Counts-As is fine for Special Characters - in some cases - but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you're looking at whole themed codices. I get people using Blood Angels for Raven Guard and stuff like that, but Space Wolves are extremely unique, and have a lot of Space Wolf-only stuff.

My point about Space Wolves being dumb is as I said above: they're more feral than other Space Marine chapters, and I don't associate feral wolves with intelligence. Cunning, yes, but I would not want them to do my taxes.

Or plan complex battles.

Rascon wrote:

That doesn't really work for people who like fluff, though. There's no reason anybody but Space Wolves would have Rune Priests or Thunderwolf Cavalry or actual wolves as troop choices. Counts-As is fine for Special Characters - in some cases - but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you're looking at whole themed codices. I get people using Blood Angels for Raven Guard and stuff like that, but Space Wolves are extremely unique, and have a lot of Space Wolf-only stuff.

My point about Space Wolves being dumb is as I said above: they're more feral than other Space Marine chapters, and I don't associate feral wolves with intelligence. Cunning, yes, but I would not want them to do my taxes.

Or plan complex battles.

They can plan complex battle like nobodies business it's like hunting for them. Drive an enemy into the right place then take him out in a single move.
Although they probably would be shocking at taxes

Rascon wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Um I hate to break it to you but your reasoning for posting this topic is completly contradictory, nowhere in any part of GW does it say that in order to use a certain codex you HAVE to play the chapter it represents or any of it's successors and I would be interested to find out where you got the idea because in 10 years of gaming this is the first time I've ever heard anything like this. If a player wanted to they could use the Vanilla Space Marine codex to represent Space Wolves, or Black Templars to represent Blood Angels. There is also a great thing called "counts as" in which you create a chapter and have it "counts as" another.

For instance I created a Maori themed chapter awhile back which was created with full intent of being represented using the Space Wolves codex. That dosen't mean that I had to make the chapter a successor of the Space Wolves or give them any relation at all. And besides that I believe that it has been shown more then adiquitly that the Space Wolves are not as you put it "pants-on-head dumb" and are in fact far from it. I'm not even sure how the fluff of the chapter can suggest that they're dumb either unless you completly missinterpreted what was said, "barbaric" yes but not dumb. In any way. Except for maybe Sven from the books, he's kind of special

That doesn't really work for people who like fluff, though. There's no reason anybody but Space Wolves would have Rune Priests or Thunderwolf Cavalry or actual wolves as troop choices. Counts-As is fine for Special Characters - in some cases - but it doesn't make a lot of sense when you're looking at whole themed codices. I get people using Blood Angels for Raven Guard and stuff like that, but Space Wolves are extremely unique, and have a lot of Space Wolf-only stuff.

My point about Space Wolves being dumb is as I said above: they're more feral than other Space Marine chapters, and I don't associate feral wolves with intelligence. Cunning, yes, but I would not want them to do my taxes.

Or plan complex battles.

Seriously? Did you not listen to anything that anyone said above? did you even read the codex? I mean seriously I want to know because from my stand point it's like you know absolutly nothing about the Space Wolves. I mean NOTHING. You want complex battle plans? look up the Hunters Hunted where Erik Morkais company ambushed Dark eldar raiders, hmm ambush that's a complex battle plan. Or how about The War under the Ocean where an entire war was fought under water, is that complex enough for you? And what do you think that Logan Grimnar is one of the most adored figures within the Imperium because of his pearly white smile? it's because he is one of the greatest and most charismatic generals of the Imperium. You should get the idea that the Space Wolves are stupid brutes who just charge into every enemy and hope it works out of your head. That's the Orks.

Space Wolves are Space Marines in every since of the word and that means they are at least on par with every other Space Marine in the galaxy in every way and in some ways they are better including their tactical acumen which also means that they are above every other type of warrior in the Imperium. There is a reason they are known as the greatest protectors of humanity and do you think that any Space Marine would really be dumb or have no tactical knowledge? I mean really I want to know what you think space Marines are.

And I don't think you understand the concept of "counts as". those units that you have listed as "only working for Space Wolves" can work for ANY chapter especially DIY chapters if a little imagination is applied. Thunderwolf Cavalry has been represented in DIY chapters as lions, reptilian mounts, modified motorcycles, equine mounts, alien mounts and people have created their own fluff for them they are simply "counts as" TWC in game terms. Wolves? come one there are so many things that can count as wolves in a DIY chapter I represented them with war hounds in my celtic themed army and as war cats native american themed chapter. If you can't think of anything to fit your theme then you either don't want them in your army bad enough or you just aren't very creative.

And Rune Priests are one of the easiest units in the codex to do that with as well, it's called a Librarian and most chapters have them. And just in case you think I don't care about the fluff it's my main reason I play the game, I've created 19 chapters complete with history, homeworld, founding, battle tactics, legendary "counts as" units and 4 of which have actual models. I've created fluff for every single character and army that I've made and I make it a habit to buy every codex even if I don't play the army simply because I like fluff. Counts as is not only for characters and it works for EVERY codex. It seems to me that the only limitation you're facing is one of imagination because those units you stated are very easy fluff wise to represent in chapters other then the Space Wolves.

It also seems to me that you're suffering from "which army do I want to have" instead of which codex do you want to represent your army. If you want an army that is like the Space Wolves in the whole viking theme then just do it, it has been done before and nothing says that a chapter has to be a successor of another to share similar traits or units. If you want units like those in the Space Wolves codex without having the Space Wolves themselves then it is VERY VERY easy to do. Now if your going to be a stickler and say "well I want actual Rune Priests or I want actual TWC and wolves" then you know what get the idea of ANY Space Marine being intellectually lacking out of your head and be Space Wolves because unlike what you asked they are not dumb. And if you're dead set on having those exact units in your own created force the best you're going to get is a lost company when it comes to Space Wolves.

It seems you're wanting to have specific exact units from one codex in your DIY and your not happy that the particular units you want are in an army that dosen't give room for successors and because of it you are misinterpreting all the chapters fluff just because it dosen't give you what you want. But you know what you can't have everything. If you want those units then you have 2 choices you can either play as the Space Wolves or you can have similar units in your own DIY which will actually require some creative thinking. And you're lucky this wasen't posted on B&C because I think you'd be getting replies even harsher then those I'm giving.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Seriously? Did you not listen to anything that anyone said above? did you even read the codex? I mean seriously I want to know because from my stand point it's like you know absolutly nothing about the Space Wolves. I mean NOTHING. You want complex battle plans? look up the Hunters Hunted where Erik Morkais company ambushed Dark eldar raiders, hmm ambush that's a complex battle plan.

No, it isn't. Animals can do it. Again, that's what Space Wolves are: cunning. I've never disputed that they're cunning, as the codex drones on about it. Intelligence is different.

And what do you think that Logan Grimnar is one of the most adored figures within the Imperium because of his pearly white smile?

Sarah Palin is adored by a lot of Americans, but that doesn't mean she's smart.

You should get the idea that the Space Wolves are stupid brutes who just charge into every enemy and hope it works out of your head.

My idea is that they operate more on instinct and wolfy wolfiness than logic and reason. And I think you'd have a difficult time proving otherwise.

And I don't think you understand the concept of "counts as". those units that you have listed as "only working for Space Wolves" can work for ANY chapter especially DIY chapters if a little imagination is applied. Thunderwolf Cavalry has been represented in DIY chapters as lions, reptilian mounts, modified motorcycles, equine mounts, alien mounts and people have created their own fluff for them they are simply "counts as" TWC in game terms. Wolves? come one there are so many things that can count as wolves in a DIY chapter I represented them with war hounds in my celtic themed army and as war cats native american themed chapter. If you can't think of anything to fit your theme then you either don't want them in your army bad enough or you just aren't very creative.

Yeah, see, you can name them whatever you want, but when you plop them down on the table, you're going to call them what they actually are, or else your opponent's going to be annoyed that you really expect him to remember that Half Squats are really Grey Hunters and Full Dumps are really Long Fangs. Practicality trumps; if I'm going to be calling them Long Fangs all day, they might as well be Long Fangs. I also don't think it's the height of originality to go, "My chapter isn't Space Wolves! How dare you! We use geckos instead of wolves, come on!" It's a Space Wolf army with a different paint scheme and some conversions.

Rascon wrote:
Yeah, see, you can name them whatever you want, but when you plop them down on the table, you're going to call them what they actually are, or else your opponent's going to be annoyed that you really expect him to remember that Half Squats are really Grey Hunters and Full Dumps are really Long Fangs. Practicality trumps; if I'm going to be calling them Long Fangs all day, they might as well be Long Fangs. I also don't think it's the height of originality to go, "My chapter isn't Space Wolves! How dare you! We use geckos instead of wolves, come on!" It's a Space Wolf army with a different paint scheme and some conversions.

In all honesty you just seem to be cutting your nose off to spite your face. If the fluff you've come up with suits a particular codex more than another then just use it with that codex. If you're getting upset because you don't want to have to turn around and say that something you're fielding would count as such and such then that's your own prerogative and the only person you have to blame for that is yourself. Pretty much any other wargamer out there will gladly accept that unit X counts as unit Y so long as it's in some way similar (cavalry being cavalry, foot soldiers not being a tank, etc.) - and then you've got the people that love fluff, and they'll probably be more interested in talking to you about your Chapter's story anyway than arguing that your Long Fangs have pink hair and bunny ears rather than pointy teeth!

Gijouhei wrote:
In all honesty you just seem to be cutting your nose off to spite your face. If the fluff you've come up with suits a particular codex more than another then just use it with that codex. If you're getting upset because you don't want to have to turn around and say that something you're fielding would count as such and such then that's your own prerogative and the only person you have to blame for that is yourself. Pretty much any other wargamer out there will gladly accept that unit X counts as unit Y so long as it's in some way similar (cavalry being cavalry, foot soldiers not being a tank, etc.) - and then you've got the people that love fluff, and they'll probably be more interested in talking to you about your Chapter's story anyway than arguing that your Long Fangs have pink hair and bunny ears rather than pointy teeth!

Again, where I play, units are called what they're actually called so there's no confusion. One guy runs a Blood Angels successor, and uses Mephiston. In his chapter fluff, is it actually Mephiston? No. But it's referred to as Mephiston by everyone involved when a game's going, including the guy himself. You can tell me that your Grey Hunters are actually Black Vipers; they behave like Grey Hunters and use Grey Hunter rules, so I'll be calling them Grey Hunters, because I actually know what Grey Hunters are, as opposed to Black Vipers.

None of this has anything to do with whether or not Space Wolves are intelligent, though, so I'm not sure why it's being discussed.

read one of the SW books...

Thelaugher wrote:read one of the SW books...

Why, do they win a lot of chess matches in them?

Rascon wrote:

Thelaugher wrote:read one of the SW books...

Why, do they win a lot of chess matches in them?

Odly enough yes they do.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:
Seriously? Did you not listen to anything that anyone said above? did you even read the codex? I mean seriously I want to know because from my stand point it's like you know absolutly nothing about the Space Wolves. I mean NOTHING. You want complex battle plans? look up the Hunters Hunted where Erik Morkais company ambushed Dark eldar raiders, hmm ambush that's a complex battle plan.

No, it isn't. Animals can do it. Again, that's what Space Wolves are: cunning. I've never disputed that they're cunning, as the codex drones on about it. Intelligence is different.

Ok now I know that you don't know anything about Space Marines or Space Wolves and that you probably didn't even bother to read what has been said by anyone above. So how about you tell me what you believe it takes for the Space Wolves to be considered intelligent? what do they have to compose classical music? Create art on the scale of Van Gogh? write poetry? what?

And what do you think that Logan Grimnar is one of the most adored figures within the Imperium because of his pearly white smile?

Sarah Palin is adored by a lot of Americans, but that doesn't mean she's smart.

Alot of Americans like Sarah Palin because they think she is a MILF (please excuse my use of that word). And as I have said before to numerous people those who compare the happenings of a fictional universe to the real world really don't understand the point of the game or the stories behind it. If you really think that the leader of one of the oldest, most respected and most experienced chapters in the 40k universe is not intelligent in both matters of war as well as other areas then i say you are as unintelligent as you say the Space Wolves are.

You should get the idea that the Space Wolves are stupid brutes who just charge into every enemy and hope it works out of your head.

My idea is that they operate more on instinct and wolfy wolfiness than logic and reason. And I think you'd have a difficult time proving otherwise.

Umm actually no I don't have a difficult time proving that considering their are multiple pages containing posts which do just that located above this post. Maybe you have trouble understanding the big words that where used or maybe your so set in your idea of Space Wolves being stupid savages to have even read them. After reading your responses I'm inclined to think the former.

And I don't think you understand the concept of "counts as". those units that you have listed as "only working for Space Wolves" can work for ANY chapter especially DIY chapters if a little imagination is applied. Thunderwolf Cavalry has been represented in DIY chapters as lions, reptilian mounts, modified motorcycles, equine mounts, alien mounts and people have created their own fluff for them they are simply "counts as" TWC in game terms. Wolves? come one there are so many things that can count as wolves in a DIY chapter I represented them with war hounds in my celtic themed army and as war cats native american themed chapter. If you can't think of anything to fit your theme then you either don't want them in your army bad enough or you just aren't very creative.

Yeah, see, you can name them whatever you want, but when you plop them down on the table, you're going to call them what they actually are, or else your opponent's going to be annoyed that you really expect him to remember that Half Squats are really Grey Hunters and Full Dumps are really Long Fangs. Practicality trumps; if I'm going to be calling them Long Fangs all day, they might as well be Long Fangs. I also don't think it's the height of originality to go, "My chapter isn't Space Wolves! How dare you! We use geckos instead of wolves, come on!" It's a Space Wolf army with a different paint scheme and some conversions.

Really? that's why in every counts as army I've ever made which is quiet a few considering I've played for 10 years and own almost every army for both 40k and Fantasy I have called counts as units by their name I have given them and in 4 differant states no one has ever had a problem with it. NOT ONCE. If they wanted to know what the unit was (if they coulden't tell already) they simply had to ask. Now unlike you most players are mature enough to be able to accept the fact that it is still the same unit the player has just chosen to represent them differantly and with a differant name which is completly allowed as that is the wolhe point of being able to create your own army.

So instead of coming on here and talking as if you know anything about....well anything how about you quit your bitching that 40k dosen't fit what you think it should. Shut the hell up about Space Wolves being unintelligent especially when it has been shown repeatidly that they are in fact highly intelligent even though you obviously don't have the capacity to understand the fluff proven points that have been given. Also just for referance your idea of intelligence (which I'm assuming is at crayon level) does not mean that someone or something who does not reach those expectations is not intelligent. I will probably recieve a warning or something for this but this is one time I do not care. I am done with this ignorant, ill concieved, unintelligent, close minded discussion which never should have been made in the first place. You asked if Space Wolves are dumb, the answer is no and that answer relates to any deffinition of the word.

Everything he said +1

well as a thousand sons fan what i got from the space wolves in the book"a thousand sons" was that they are ignorant fools and as dumb as rocks.

Hey throw the Space Wolves a bone man. We may not be the smartest kids, but we get the job done.