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While it is true that Bolt's gain velocity after leaving the barrel, they are far more lethal than a 9mm at, and shortly after the barrel. Melissa is correct they are Not exactly gyro-jets; they are far superior to them, but fire in nearly the same manner(the first stage, the charge in the casing gives them a lethal velocity upon exiting the barrel and can penetrate most things with that velocity alone)

The benefit to the gyro-jet round format(remember they still do not = gyro-jet rounds) to them is that they do not lose any of that velocity as the bullet travels "downrange" (in fact it picks up extra velocity) this does more to long range accuracy than it does to penetrative power however(a problem I have always had with this is the fluff =/= the rules with such a short range given to the bolter profile).

But anyways we should really get back on topic; yes in the Fluff the guard can, and sometimes do, go to war transported in Rhinos; it is not however their first choice, they would much rather have a Nice IFV to support them once they get their than an APC that can do little to help them after deployment.

Infantryman wrote:Gendoikari87, you forgot the #2 rule of Dakka, which is "Don't argue with Melissia."

M.

Why is there a rule about specifically arguing with a single memeber of dakka?

That said, the bolter is one of the weaker weapons in game :/

M.

At least a bolter can glance the back of a rhino or side of a chimera.

A lasgun can't.

Bolt weapons would easily be able to blow through most vehicles, like my '02 Chevy Malibu, for example. It's only when you shoot them at the front armor of tank chassis (like AV12), that they lose their killing power.

Anyways, with regards to the OP, I don't think the question is "why can't guard take rhinos?" but "why can't marines take chimeras?" You'd think that the Imperium's finest wouldn't be stuck in cheap metal boxes that need to find the nearest bridge when they come across a small stream...

At least they make good cigarette lighters.

Ailaros wrote:You'd think that the Imperium's finest wouldn't be stuck in cheap metal boxes that need to find the nearest bridge when they come across a small stream...

Because Marines don't get everything nice and good, as that would be boring for everyone else.

Fluff wise I'm not sure they need chimeras aside from the odd river or two, I mean they're basically wearing a tank around them so the transport itself doesn't need to be that good. They have razorbacks for heavy firepower transports and land raider for the indestructable line breakers, and drop pods for what the others can't get to. So the chimera would be a pretty niche thing for them outside of the fact that it can transport twelve ... and I think rhinos can do that, not sure though.

That being said Chimeras for marines would make Goto happy as it means more MULTILAZORS!!!!!!!!!!

gazelle wrote:Once upon a time, Guard *could* take Rhinos, because there was no Chimera kit. iIRC it was only available to certain squads and a mech army wasn't possible. This is going back to White Dwarf 110 or thereabouts, and my memory is temporarily disabled.

In the original list, guard could take rhinos, land raiders, predators, robots, drednoughts, bikes, and jet bikes, they just had to take some number of tech priests to support it. There was no force org and no 'dedicated transport' concept so you could have an entire guard company mounted in land raiders if you wanted. Oh, and guard had assault squads with twin laspistols and jump packs, just because.



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Melissia wrote:No roleplaying games (Inquisitor, Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Ascension, Deathwatch) give a penalty for using bolt weapons at close range. No console/computer games (from Chaos Gate to Chaos Rising) give a penalty for using bolt weapons at close range. No tabletop armies, across the entire history of 40k, have given such a penalty,

Back when there were range bonuses in 40k, bolters actually got a bonus to hit at short range, not a penalty like some would suggest.