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Ahtman wrote:No one is forced to pay for TV. Basic and Premium cable channels are not mandatory to survive. You can still watch NCIS for free.

That's because you're not a consumer; you're a product. The market for TV is... dundundun: advertisers.

The CSIs and NCIs are the only TV shows that I actually enjoy at this point. Unfortunately, even when I do get free time at the right time, half the time the digital signal is messed up anyway so I get breaks and pauses in the scene like it was a scratched DVD.

Have you also tried House (early 2nd-3rd season house), and some of the comedy shows out there?

whatwhat wrote:

Wolfun wrote:Well, according to one user on Kotaku, I'm pretentious for being against piracy.

Why am I against piracy?

One, I work for Network Rail, and we always get Gypsy's stealing equipment, cable and whatnot. And it severely hampers our effectiveness. I get annoyed with it, because it means it makes my life more difficult at work.

Piracy is not theft. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a different sort of wrong. The music industry in particular is desperate to make out that piracy is "theft". It's not theft because you deprive the original owner of nothing; in theory you take away a potential sale and deprive the artist of their cut - though there's nothing to say that a person who downloaded something for free would have equally as likely have paid for it. When you're paying for something most people are a lot more picky then if they can get a load of stuff for free.

No, piracy is "copyright infringement" not "theft", they are legally quite different things but the music and film industries try their utmost to conflate the two because it suits their agenda to affect public opinion and that of governments. They want people to think it's a criminal act like stealing from a shop when it isn't. Copyright enforcement is the job of the copyright holder, effectively making it a civil problem not a criminal one.

Media companies try very hard to equate filesharing with shoplifting. They are different things, piracy is not 'theft', not in the way it is portrayed by adverts like the above. It's not right either but that's not the point being made here.

Media companies try to apply pressure to governments to make it a criminal offence. But it's not theft, to "file share" is to "breach copyright", it's largely a civil matter, it's not the job of governments to police copyright on the behalf of big companies. Companies protect their own copyright. But the big media companies have tried to turn it into a criminal offence. Furthermore they have tried to create a "presumed guilty before innocent" approach to tackling transgressors. They send letters to people with arbitrary fines on them and try to extort money from people, correctly identified or not, with intimidating threats of huge legal action. And there's all the other powers that they want. For instance, various schemes include wanting governments to force ISPs to hand over personal data on the basis of an accusation. Or worse still, insist that your internet connection be cut off, or that they can confiscate your personal computer to look to see if you have downloaded material. Right, so what they would like is that a private company can expect to ask another private company to hand over the confidential details of their own customers, merely on the basis of an accusation. This in my mind is a bit worrying.

I'm curious how many people here who create ip also follow the argument
that free information is promotional rather than unethical.

It's different looking at it from our end. We're just consumers.

Actually yes, I plan on watching House on Hulu after I finish the series I'm currently watching.


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Wait, no, nevermind. Hulu only has season seven. Not interested in starting a series from the middle.

Try here http://www.free-tv-video-online.me/internet/house/

There is no honor amongst thieves.

To each their own.

malfred wrote:I'm curious how many people here who create ip also follow the argument
that free information is promotional rather than unethical.

Well, my band Dresden(http://www.dresdenmusic.com) just released our debut album for free. In fact there's a thread about it somewhere. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that we employ a 'gratitude box' method, whereby people can pay what they like to download it, even if that means nothing. It's gone pretty well - there's no way a thousand or so people would people would have my record if we were selling physical copies like most bands starting out do - i.e selling them at gigs, in local record stores etc. Using downloads is an effective way to reach a large number of people, and if you move in those circles many of those people can get any music they want absolutely free. So why fight progress? Doing it this way has meant that my band is pretty close to concluding a singles deal with a small indie label and securing representation. It hasn't hurt us at all, in other words.

I have to say, I come down on the side of the fence that says - 'if there's no victim, there's no crime.'

That's my opinion and I won't get wound up if someone doesn't share it. Try to be a big man and do the same.

Peace.

I pirate arcade games, mostly because they're impossible to get otherwise. If it's new I won't bother and I do own a NEO GEO that I buy cartridges for. But if it's impossible to get otherwise I have little problem with it.

Similarly, I get, NES, SNES, and Genesis ROMs occasionally, because they're impossible to get otherwise, and I'm sure as hell not paying for them twice with the Wii. Already own most of the NES games I want to play, but the NES system doesn't work anymore. Planned obsolescence.

Perkustin wrote:Its pretty much the easiest form of theft, if it wasn't available i wouldn't do it, hell i'd even get some painting done! Or i'd read some more books.

Oh and I bet we all watch free porn! I don't see anyone crying over them!

A double standard that I find hilarious.

Mr Mystery wrote:So, why do people use software, movie and music piracy? What is the justification?

I guess people like free stuff , especially if its easily pirated.

Personally i dont think there are any justifications for it period. Will people try to justify it? of course , but thats abit like lying to one's self for stealing.

I wouldn't be so tempted to pirate things if the entertainment industry wasn't so bloated with multi million dollar directors, executives, and actors. The same with the music industry. I don't pirate games, and I only pirate books I have no intention of buying materially but still want to be able to peruse usefully (codexes for example, kinda hard to play if you dont know what you're fighting, but I'm not gonna buy every codex). I buy all items I think are worth buying.


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LunaHound wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:So, why do people use software, movie and music piracy? What is the justification?

I guess people like free stuff , especially if its easily pirated.

Personally i dont think there are any justifications for it period. Will people try to justify it? of course , but thats abit like lying to one's self for stealing.

Copying and stealing aren't the same. Theres a reason it's called "piracy" and not "theft". It's largely a civil matter of intelectual property infringement.

LunaHound wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:So, why do people use software, movie and music piracy? What is the justification?

I guess people like free stuff , especially if its easily pirated.

Personally i dont think there are any justifications for it period. Will people try to justify it? of course , but thats abit like lying to one's self for stealing.

The laws of computing say that you are wrong.

Given that modern computers can only copy and delete, they actually cannot physically steal anything. They can only make copies of them. Moving a file from one computer to the next involves copying it to the second computer and deleting it from the first. Moving a file from one folder to the next is more akin to renaming a file as usually no copying or deleting takes place when you do that. Moving a file into a zip file is basically copying and compressing that file into the zip folder (a collection of compressed files) and deleting the original. Listening to a song on youtube, you copy the video several times, any one of which can, with the right software, be kept on your computer so that you can watch it without having to go to youtube again.

When you copy something, the original version doesn't have to be deleted. Therefor, nothing was lost. Basically, while you can argue that it is wrong to "pirate" music, you can't really argue that "pirating" is stealing. Stealing indicates that the object was taken. It wasn't taken, it was just copied.

"Pirating" is more akin to photocopying a famous photograph or piece of art.

Ahtman wrote:

Wolfun wrote:One, I work for Network Rail

Is that an internet company or do you work on Trains? Feels like it could go either way with that name.

It's a train company.

@Mel Really? Hmmm i think piracy is still stealing in the way that its taking away the revenue of a possible sale away from the artist / company of. For example dling mp3 instead of buying the album CD.

While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

LunaHound wrote:@Mel Really? Hmmm i think piracy is still stealing in the way that its taking away the revenue of a possible sale away from the artist / company of. For example dling mp3 instead of buying the album CD.

While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

Like intelectual property laws! You realize that argument works both ways.

You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

LunaHound wrote:@Mel Really? Hmmm i think piracy is still stealing in the way that its taking away the revenue of a possible sale away from the artist / company of. For example dling mp3 instead of buying the album CD.

While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

Who would piracy laws be protecting then? Millionaires? They're wallets really need that extra lining.

Lord Scythican wrote:You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

That why avatar made so much money? Because it fulfilled the globes needs for highbrow quality film?

LunaHound wrote:While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

You mean like the DMCA which tramples on the rights of consumers to begin with?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

That why avatar made so much money? Because it fulfilled the globes needs for highbrow quality film?

No, it made idiots depressed, much better in my book :d

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:@Mel Really? Hmmm i think piracy is still stealing in the way that its taking away the revenue of a possible sale away from the artist / company of. For example dling mp3 instead of buying the album CD.

While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

Like intelectual property laws! You realize that argument works both ways.

? Im sure it does work both ways.
But there is no denying when we download mp3 or movies ( for examples ) illegally , we are taking away the revenue from legit products? Or are you saying its not?

Lord Scythican wrote:You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

If it's that bad, why want a copy at all?

You see, the 'victimless' crime thing just isn't true. Somewhere in the mix is a poor mook like yourself, a low level worker. If thanks to Piracy whichever product doesn't make as much as they hoped, guess where the job losses are most likely to start?

In a place not dominated by rich bastards.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

That why avatar made so much money? Because it fulfilled the globes needs for highbrow quality film?

Honestly if you went to one of the torrent sites back when avatar was being pirated, you would have seen tons of people who said they downloaded the movie but stressed that if you like it, go see it at the movies. Others said that the pirated copies were a poor shadow of the movie, a movie that should be watched on the big screen. People said the same about Tron.

Now I am not saying these movies were good, but they were visually good which meant a lot to some people. If you can't get a good story, then you can at least hope the movie looks good, (i.e. the most recent Resident Evil movie).

Mr Mystery wrote:

Lord Scythican wrote:You know the movie industry blames piracy for the decline in quality movies. Personally I blame the decline of quality movies for the increase in piracy. People just don't want to shell out $15.00 for a crap movie anymore. I still buy DVDs and watch movies, but I do that less than before because most of them are truly awful. Who is going to pay $20.00 for one CD with one or two good songs?

I tell you if the movie industry would get its head out of its ass and start making better movies, I am sure they would make more money and see less piracy.

If it's that bad, why want a copy at all?

You see, the 'victimless' crime thing just isn't true. Somewhere in the mix is a poor mook like yourself, a low level worker. If thanks to Piracy whichever product doesn't make as much as they hoped, guess where the job losses are most likely to start?

Because downloading a copy to see a less than worthwhile movie for free, is better than shelling out cash for said movie? People are bored. They watch crap all the time. Jersey Shore anyone?

LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:@Mel Really? Hmmm i think piracy is still stealing in the way that its taking away the revenue of a possible sale away from the artist / company of. For example dling mp3 instead of buying the album CD.

While i believe you are right the actual law favors your explanation, i think laws are made to protect us... and some laws are outdated and cant cover the current society?

Like intelectual property laws! You realize that argument works both ways.

? Im sure it does work both ways.
But there is no denying when we download mp3 or movies ( for examples ) illegally , we are taking away the revenue from legit products? Or are you saying its not?

I'm saying I don't care in the slightest that their seven figure salaries might lose 10 dollars, and that the profit model of the music and movie distribution industries is riven with corruption, graft, greed, and immorality. Thus my moral center isn't really impacted. Movie executives are people I might consider stealing from materially, just to spite them. Like a stapler or something.

What the hell?! I agree with Shuma O_O