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I definitely lean toward the information is free crowd. Buying a song so the recording industry can continue to lurch along manufacturing bands and suing people isn't noble to me. If you want to, fine with me, but passing some sort of judgment on others for disagreeing with you is crap.
Copying something isn't stealing to me. It's the opinion of many large organizations, notably the movie and music industries that it is, but that doesn't make it fact. If someone isn't going to pay for a movie, song, program or book, then the people making it aren't going to get that money any way. You aren't denying the use of whatever it is to anyone else.
I download all my songs from iTunes, and I watch what I want to watch on Netflix (which I pay for) or Hulu.
I have, on occasion, "pirated" a Codex pdf. However, I don;t view it as an act of stealing, sincerely and honestly. I live about a 30 minute drive from the local GW, where all of the codices I could want are on display for me to pick up and read through at my leisure. All the information I need is already free. So, by saving myself a 30 minute drive, who suffers? Am I "robbing" the gas company by not using fuel? I suppose you could argue that. But I'm certainly not taking anything from GW that they don;t already offer me for free. Hell, in the case of my Space Wolves army, I downloaded the PDF, bought over $1000 in models, and also ended up buying the codex. I don;t see what the problem is.
I suppose the other thing I don;t consider piracy is downloading things that a company no longer sells. Call it self entitlement if you wish, but I don't feel like it hurts anyone by acquiring a product that a company no longer wishes to sell. If I don't have the option to give them money for the product, then getting it for free isn't stealing.
I don't think its as cut and dried as that, I happily bought the UM movie and it sucked, but lots of "meh" stuff you definitely wouldn't buy, but will listen to for free.
Hence I think piracy figures are misleading.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
In the early days I did downloaded music for free, mainly stuff that I'd bought before on vinyl. As it's become easier to get and the price has dropped I very rarely download pirate music. Films, shows and software I still do. Films, if they are any good I buy them as I like having a proper version with the extras. TV shows... I hate Sky and refuse to pay them anything, however if I like the show I will buy it. Software? Well that's more complex, I just have a magpie approach, it's nice and shiney so I want it. Plus demo software doesn't give you any time to really learn it.
I would really like to see some true figures that reflect the actual real loses the film industry suffer from due to piracy. How much of those downloads equate to actual lost sales? If they were able to stop it once and for all, would their profits go up much? How many of those downloads are by people who just want to see the film first, but still go to the cinema when it comes out or are people who wouldn't go to see it anyway if you removed the download option.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/20 10:33:36
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
KingCracker and whatwhat: I know it's different, this wasn't intended as a dig at non-DCMs in any way. I was making a point (specifically to Mr Mystery) that with his supercillious, high handed attitude, it seems a double standard on his part. I see the difference between donation and price (and mentioned it in my post), I am trying to encourage Mr M to engage in a bit of reflection as to why his opinion is a bit OTT, rather than blanket criticise all non-DCMs. I only recently started earning enough to feel I could comfortably contribute, and there are many sites that I still wouldn't donate to. I don't criticise anyone for not donating, I think it's absolutely fine. I hope that's clear now- the post was an attempt to make Mr M reconsider his high handed attitude and dismissive language and actually engage with the topic, which is not as cut and dried as he assumes.
Kilkrazy wrote:IMO the music industry as we currently know it will collapse in the next 10 years.
Recorded music will effectively become free, and musicians will make the bulk of their money through live performance, which by definition can't be pirated.
There will simply be much less money in the whole business for everyone involved.
In the last decade concert ticket revenue tripled - the industry is actually in rude health. All that's happening is that the areas in which the industry traditionally makes its money are changing. I think they'll be fine.
@Mr. Mystery - Have you ever streamed a video on youtube?
In response to that video: yes I would, yes I would, yes I would, yes I would. Do they seriously believe everyone is that innocent? Maybe it's just me but I think most people evaluate the repercusions of theft against the rewards when they decide not to steal, rather than doing so on the simple basis that theft is immoral. The morality part of it is usually who you're stealing from, not that you're stealing. For example if your bank gives you back a twenty pound note instead of a ten are you going to speak up? If it was a terminally ill child on the other hand?
I try never to illegally download films or tv shows, i stream tv shows all the time on megavideo admittedly, but i dont download each and every episode and keep 'em on my hard drive anymore. I LOVE going to the cinema, even by myself but i dont buy dvds. I try to buy albums by new small label artists who do it more to write great music and make a living rather than fame. If i like 1 song off the radio i will probably just find it on free rapidshare, and listen to it a couple times and then delete it. For games workshop i have read most of the current codexes but havent bought one since 2004, now that i have pretty much memorised the DE one i see little point in buying it now, though i am much more likely to now as before i was merely reading the codexes because i liked the 40k universe but hadn't played in years.
Mary Sue wrote: Perkustin is even more awesome than me!
This thread has stolen 5 minutes of my life that I will not get back; I demand compensation!
Srsly, I have a few things that I downloaded, but that was because they were either so legacy that they were unavailable otherwise (trying to find some older albums for reasonable prices or even at all can be hard), or were just plain unavailable in my country; or they were downloaded with the intention of buying if they were good.
The majority of stuff I have bought afterwards (again, where available), with the only exception being an album or two that I can't track down (I will look for it; I will not shell out £40 for it to a shifty third-party seller). I do, however, have a "Song of the post" theme on my blog, where I have a song at the end of each entry that I heard that day and liked or just fits with the theme. I link it to youtube and where applicable, a site to purchase it, and actively encourage people to listen and buy.
If I can't track down albums, then maybe others can. I'm not saying it makes what i've done alright, but surely getting 2 people to buy 1 album that I couldn't buy is better than having nobody buying it at all.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Mr Mystery wrote:Yet you always hear about piracy, file sharing etc. I really can't think of anything more selfish than what is essentially stealing. After all, what makes the person doing the downloading so special, they feel they don't have to pay. One argument for it I often hear is 'well, if I like it I'll go out and buy it'. To me, that's not good enough. There are ways to see things without necessarily paying. Borrowing off friends, waiting to see it on telly etc. Hell, if you're patient the second hand market is always there, and the longer you wait typically the cheaper it gets. Whilst these aren't necessarily completely legal (second hand market on certain goods can be a distinct grey area) the creators, distributors etc have still had their slice of the pie, and it's unlikely there are suddenly additional copies in circulation.
I borrow a cd from a friend: creator receives no revenue
I pirate a cd: creator receives no revenue.
I buy a cd: unless creator is their own publisher, or is already hugely popular (and even then, it's iffy), creator receives no revenue.
...why exactly is option 3 better than the other two?
Further, why is option one okay but not option two? The end result is exactly the same.
Yeah, but you are more likely to get caught that way, so no. Less likely to get caught = more morally sound.
More interesting to me is just WHAT makes this such a widespread and largely public opinion? I mean, certainly for piracy (and the above theory) to be something so many people believe and act on, it can't just be some random abberent or sociopathic behaviour, and it's gotta be learned or developed somewhere. Unelss you're falling into the generic "youth is corrupt" trap, that is. I don't think people are getting it from any sort of pop culture element. Since our culture is dictated by corporations marketing to us at this point, that would be deliciously ironic anyway.
Well, according to one user on Kotaku, I'm pretentious for being against piracy.
Why am I against piracy?
One, I work for Network Rail, and we always get Gypsy's stealing equipment, cable and whatnot. And it severely hampers our effectiveness. I get annoyed with it, because it means it makes my life more difficult at work.
Two, does ANYONE like the DRM Ubisoft put out in order curb piracy? I think not.
Howard A Treesong wrote:I used to download to get a lot of American shows. I'm not paying for Sky and their appalling attitude and endless advert breaks and adverts plastered across the middle of programmes making things unwatchable.
But they're just trying to capture the modern American television experience!
No kidding.
feth modern television. Hell, I was perfectly willing to put up with one or two commercials on Hulu just to get away from modern television (a pity they didn't actually have the CSI and NCIS videos on Hulu, CBS apparently not wanting any revenue from internet viewers).
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Is that an internet company or do you work on Trains? Feels like it could go either way with that name.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:
daedalus wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:I used to download to get a lot of American shows. I'm not paying for Sky and their appalling attitude and endless advert breaks and adverts plastered across the middle of programmes making things unwatchable.
But they're just trying to capture the modern American television experience!
No kidding.
feth modern television. Hell, I was perfectly willing to put up with one or two commercials on Hulu just to get away from modern television (a pity they didn't actually have the CSI and NCIS videos on Hulu, CBS apparently not wanting any revenue from internet viewers).
That is becuase they made a deal with Netflix. Most companies are also not big fans of relying on their direct competitors for media dissemination and Hulu is NBC owned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/20 14:33:11
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Then some other company would be nice. I'm not gonna pay to watch TV, haven't paid to watch cable yet either (which leaves me in the dark when people start talking about cable television, but meh, feth pop culture).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/20 14:35:48
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Ahtman wrote:No one is forced to pay for TV. Basic and Premium cable channels are not mandatory to survive. You can still watch NCIS for free.
Only if I am available when NCIS is showing.
If the company was intelligent and allowed me to watch online (Hell, even if it's on their own site), I'd be able to watch whenever I wanted.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
As an American that was talking to another American about the TV situation in America, I don't really care what other countries charge their citizens and what those citizens allow themselves to be charged.
That being said, even TV is not necessary to a full and productive life so if you don't want to pay to watch any form of television than simply don't. Use a TV for watching DVD's or playing games. If you don't even want a TV get a library card.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
As an American that was talking to another American about the TV situation in America, I don't really care what other countries charge their citizens and what those citizens allow themselves to be charged.
Ouch. You know you are technically paying for your tv without a tv licence. In the UK we have chanles with no advertising because of the license, whereas in the US you get advertising. And unless anything has changed since the last time I was there, you get a gak load of it too.
