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Well, the Kurgan was immortal... ;-)

I find it pretty funny how 40K's take on the usual sci-fi utopian 'in the future prejudice between humans won't exist ' idea comes with the - rather logical, it has to be said - caveat that we've only achieved it by moving on our hate to other things

count_duckula23 wrote:I find it pretty funny how 40K's take on the usual sci-fi utopian 'in the future prejudice between humans won't exist ' idea comes with the - rather logical, it has to be said - caveat that we've only achieved it by moving on our hate to other things

Better them than us...

1hadhq wrote:Asian?
Sorry, but its impossible to know about 8.000BC for sure when the first confirmed data is from 2.500 BC.
Rather questionable to claim the Emperor as part of a ethnic group.

He was born in Asia. Asia was Asia 8000 B.C.. So he is of Asian descent. No matter what the ethnic group is called or where it migrated afterwards. Simple as that. And nice as well that GW didn't go the easy route and make the God-Emperor British

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Asian?
Sorry, but its impossible to know about 8.000BC for sure when the first confirmed data is from 2.500 BC.
Rather questionable to claim the Emperor as part of a ethnic group.

He was born in Asia. Asia was Asia 8000 B.C.. So he is of Asian descent. No matter what the ethnic group is called or where it migrated afterwards. Simple as that. And nice as well that GW didn't go the easy route and make the God-Emperor British

Prove it.

When was Asia named Asia?

What the place was called then is less important to the argument than WHO was THERE then.

Also, when your argumentative recourse is semantic - you've ceased to have a viable position.

If you look at the artwork - he looks just like Conan the Barbarian. So maybe he was Austrian?

The only 'origins of the Emperor' fluff I know of (from a game book) involve the Sensei. Obviously an 'Asian' term. Though, since the Sensei were many, they could have been from any number of human ethnicities. He may be a literal mixing of races and cultures. Seems like a good, basic qualification for someone who is to rule all of mankind.

Who was there then.... are the people who spoke a language where the name of the location is from in that time.
So knowing how some place was called allows to find out who was there.

General barbaric tribe style from a fantasy setting may lead us to Conan - emporer..... and why not?
The Emperor lived throughout History, and he's already part of a sci-fantasy setting

A heritage from multiple gene sources could provide the wide mix neccessary to blend in with any ethnicity he deems to join. Like your idea.

He wasn't from multiple genetic lines, his soul was an amalgamation of those of a large number of human psykers who had been reincarnating a la the Eldar pre-fall, who realized the warp was starting to get a bit more dangerous than they were comfortable with (since the Eldar were by then starting their descent) and so committed ritual mass suicide in such a way as to coalesce into one being, in a sort of microcosm of how Slaanesh was later formed from the Eldar.

If he came from " a large number of human psykers" (the Sensei) did those humans somehow not have genes?

His soul was an amalgamation of theirs, he wasn't descended from them.

Nobody said 'descended' from them. As I remember the story in Realms of Chaos (which I have sadly misplaced long ago and can't now refer to ) - the Sensei 'combined' to form Emperor-tron. Whether this was entirely metaphysical or not, one might presume that an amalgamated being would retain the diversity of his parts in some fashion.

His soul was the amalgamation. His body was just that of some tribal kid genetically.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:His soul was the amalgamation. His body was just that of some tribal kid genetically.

I get that. Depending on your theology, the soul is the seat of identity. That being the case it is reasonable to think that he'd be representative of more than one race.

Clearer?

"Race" is an ill-defined genetic concept, not a metaphysical one. And this was all, specifically, in response to "A heritage from multiple gene sources could provide the wide mix neccessary to blend in with any ethnicity he deems to join." He was, genetically, a tribesman from a single group, regardless of his soul being comprised of those of diverse psykers.

Kilkrazy wrote:OTOH there are plenty of white people who are delighted to be called African.

Thank you for this comment!

I was born in South Africa, so I'm an African. So what if I'm white? "Race" is an archaic term people use to identify "the other". We're all human, FFS! That's our "Race!

On the topic of Space Marines:
How do you make a "black" Spacemarine? Is he big, bald with thick lips and cornrows, blasting rap music out of his Rhino? Is an "asian" marine short, with squinty eyes and good at math? Do "white" Spacemarines dance badly, eat too much mayonaise, sleep with their cousins and live in trailerparks?

If GW made "asian" or "black" heads for marines they'd be accused of racism for lumping people into stereotypes. There's no way around this problem, except to paint your little plastic soldiers the way YOU want them.

Kilkrazy wrote:Many words like Munitorum, Adeptes, Ecclesiarchy, Servitor and Ordos, are clearly Japanese in origin.

Why are they "clearly" of japanese origin?

1hadhq wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Asian?
Sorry, but its impossible to know about 8.000BC for sure when the first confirmed data is from 2.500 BC.
Rather questionable to claim the Emperor as part of a ethnic group.

He was born in Asia. Asia was Asia 8000 B.C.. So he is of Asian descent. No matter what the ethnic group is called or where it migrated afterwards. Simple as that. And nice as well that GW didn't go the easy route and make the God-Emperor British

Prove it.
When was Asia named Asia?

Counterquestion: When did life start on earth? Only when the British agreed on the correct spelling of the word earth?
Guess, I missed that your posts weren't meant seriously. Otherwise they don't make sense.

I'm getting rather irritated by the influx of "why aren't there other ethnicities in 40k" threads on dakka.

As I said in another "where are the other racial groups in the IoM" thread:

Because 38,000 years from now, Terra, and the IoM, is one big civilization, you can't be African-American as the concepts of Africa and America no longer exist. Also, millennia of living on planets with different climates and suns will alter your pigmentation, to the point that on some planets, paler skin is more prevalent, while on others, it's darker skin that's more common.

As for Space Marines, they share the same genetic structure as their primarch, if their primarch was Caucasian, they likely are as well, despite their original skin tone, which is why Space Wolves are largely Caucasian with Viking-esque beards/hair and wolfish teeth, because of Leman Russ, or how Blood Angels are brought into the Chapter scarred by radiation and leave as blond caucasians with sharper canines....they now have the genes of Sanguinius.

Also, 1,000 marines of the Salamanders Chapter are of a darker skin tone, because their planet's cause them to evolve that way

Amen.

I guess HR dweebs have hobbies too. I wish those types to choke on their own gak.

There are many mentions of "Merica" and "Sud Merica", it's also suggested that the emperor himself emerged from the Caucasus region. I've also seen mentions of a place called "Franc" or something like it. Also many chapters and companies are described as being dark skinned. Then there's the Tallarn imperial guard army, who are clearly arabic inspired.

In any case, different chapters and companies are from different PLANETS, not continents, and have been for several millenniums making them even more diverse in appearance than just the few "races" we have on earth (terra).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, then there's that people usually paint their armies in the skin color they themselves have, if not for some specific themed armies. It's just natural, and most people don't even think about it. I guess whities are just more represented in the hobby than other "races".

SgtSixkilla wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Many words like Munitorum, Adeptes, Ecclesiarchy, Servitor and Ordos, are clearly Japanese in origin.

Why are they "clearly" of japanese origin?

I don't think this was ment seriously.

WHAT? Are you saying some people around here doesn't take this 100% seriously??

Seriously though, *hangs head in shame for not seeing that*.

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Asian?
Sorry, but its impossible to know about 8.000BC for sure when the first confirmed data is from 2.500 BC.
Rather questionable to claim the Emperor as part of a ethnic group.

He was born in Asia. Asia was Asia 8000 B.C.. So he is of Asian descent. No matter what the ethnic group is called or where it migrated afterwards. Simple as that. And nice as well that GW didn't go the easy route and make the God-Emperor British

Prove it.
When was Asia named Asia?

Counterquestion: When did life start on earth? Only when the British agreed on the correct spelling of the word earth?
Guess, I missed that your posts weren't meant seriously. Otherwise they don't make sense.

A tactical retreat of yours?
Fine.

Assumed its obvious that the title of the thread didn't say " which continent was the Emperor from". Did you expect a serious reply to your post that makes no sense?
Its not bad for GW to place the Emperor at least somewhere with a few archeological sites from around 7.000 BC.
But we're not safe yet. GW didn't publish the "sensei" story in the last editions, they could drop it and go for British....

VoidAngel wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:His soul was the amalgamation. His body was just that of some tribal kid genetically.

I get that. Depending on your theology, the soul is the seat of identity. That being the case it is reasonable to think that he'd be representative of more than one race.

Clearer?

Your 'soul' has no effect on your genetics

A human's genetics is made from the mixing of their parents genetics

Anyways, back on topic. It was pointed out to me here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/350570.page that the Vitrian Dragoons aren't black but Persian or possibly Space-Rajputs. The Salamaders are inspired on Big 'Ole John Henry and so are Space-African-Americans. Emphasis on American. 40K usually does a good job of having a little bit of everything in it but it seems the straight up African cultures aren't represented.

BluntmanDC wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:His soul was the amalgamation. His body was just that of some tribal kid genetically.

I get that. Depending on your theology, the soul is the seat of identity. That being the case it is reasonable to think that he'd be representative of more than one race.

Clearer?

Your 'soul' has no effect on your genetics

A human's genetics is made from the mixing of their parents genetics

This forum needs a, 'you must have a reading level above this line in order to participate" sign.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:You're confusing "Aryan" in the historical sense (the people that eventually settled Persia/Iran through northern India) and "Aryan" in the sense of the insane, pseudo-anthropological ravings of the Nazi leadership

Actually, that kinda makes sense that he was one of the 'crazy' Aryans in reference to the marines, didn't they used to be Space Nazi's?

As for the Dark Angels, while the poem they're based on certain does add a thought to the robes, the fluff is par on par for the German Reformation and I tend to think they're the equivalent of space monks. Consider the conflicts with Islam, the Ottoman Empire and the 'Great' Crusades in the region during the 1500's in which the [Teutonic] Knights of Caliban took part, during which [Martin] Luther split the (Catholic Church/Chapter). The parent chapter (Dark Angels/Catholic Church) launched a full war with the renegade chapter (Fallen/Protestants). The Fallen/Protestants are declared heretics and excommunicated and a series of wars is the result of the Dark Angels/Catholic Church hunting them. The Space Monk theme is further reinforced with the naming conventions of the chapter pulling primarily from Judeo-Christian supernatural beings names.

Ezekial: Archangel of Transformation. Possibly a hint at mankind evolving into a psychic race?
Azrael: Archangel of Death.
Uziel: Cherubim whose name means "Strength of God"
... etc


It doesn't get a lot more copy and paste than that... If anything the name and relation to the poem may or may not be shots at the Catholic Church both as the in the numerous jokes about Catholic Priests and the amount of violence the Catholic world often endured, hence the Dark Angel. The Dark Angel isn't a reference to a dark skinned figure, its a reference to the personification of Death or the Grim Reaper, the angel whose job is the darkest in the removing of souls from the dead body.

Where is the feathers taken as a sign of Native Americans? The feather could also be in reference to angel wings. Also, the sword is the antithesis of a native american based chapter as native americans did not forge swords.

The Plains World incident is a Native American incident yes, however Plains World was a recruiting world of the Dark Angels and is not the basis for the chapter's backround or general theme. The genetic start of the recruits is irrelevant as they tend to take on the characteristics of their primarch. As stated the Lion had long blonde hair, which was rare at best in the New World.

VoidAngel wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:His soul was the amalgamation. His body was just that of some tribal kid genetically.

I get that. Depending on your theology, the soul is the seat of identity. That being the case it is reasonable to think that he'd be representative of more than one race.

Clearer?

Your 'soul' has no effect on your genetics

A human's genetics is made from the mixing of their parents genetics

This forum needs a, 'you must have a reading level above this line in order to participate" sign.

Reading level is the level of a person's ability to read words clearly in the given language, I believe ''you must have an understanding level above this line in order to participate" is what you were trying to describe in your insult.

So either you ment your comment as a joke, or you ment that a white person's soul is different from a black person's soul or an asian person's soul which i think is wrong.

@KamikazeCanuck: i always thought that the salamanders had a feel of European classical gods, specifically the forge/craftmen gods, in how they are presented as being involved in human lives

Generally, they are thought to be tribute to John Henry: superhuman everyman. That's right, Salamanders are Americans!

Isn't it possible that throughout the Dark Ages, with the isolation of the planets new "races" are formed? I'm not sure if that was stated already

Also is it not possible that with this isolation, and the technological recession of many of the worlds, that these people adopt old cultures that have disappeared through the ages. They would then create their own culture by mixing all those old cultures that they heard about?

Is it also possible that humanity has a version of genetic memory (similar to the orks, though not as complex), so that they would fall back to cultures or styles from before?

Again, as it was said before, are you really african or american, or asian, if they no longer exist? That's a tricky one.