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But if you have all the tactical at half strength, the power fist doesn't last as long in assaults, the the squad itself is that more vulnerable to everything, especially wound allocation.

Anyway, I got the multimeltas all painted up too, a bonus

But with a fist you stand a much better chance at taking out tanks and walkers that you would otherwise just stay engaged with until your squad died. YMMV though.

True, but against large combat orientated squads , your powerfist mat noy even strike back.

That is true. But even with a 10 man squad that could be true. You will find a good split of people who like and dislike fists on tactical marines.

I don't think you should take the pf's on the tac squads.

That's 75 pts you could free up.

To use on what though?

Brother Dvorn wrote:To use on what though?

Another mm/hf speeder?

But then it reduces their effectiveness, as they can still only kill a maximum of 3 units a turn, while making the chances of death, due to immobilization, higher.

Brother Dvorn wrote:But then it reduces their effectiveness, as they can still only kill a maximum of 3 units a turn, while making the chances of death, due to immobilization, higher.

Better than wasting 75pts for pf's that will make hardly any difference in an assault.

I have found they have actually been quite useful. In 1 turn I cleaned out 3 warroir squads with them, and they have knocked off deamon princes last wound etc.

Would 2 AC LC predators be better than the rifleman?

Because at the moment I like the riflemen, but the predators could hurt MC s more, and are able to damage av13 and above easier.

Or is one of each better?

ok my 1750 that ive been playing for going on 2 years now.. is this... simple.. and ive beaten everyone ive played with it.. orks(horde kan wall, nob bikers, ect), De( old and new), nids, chaos demons, chaos marines, tau, IG chimera spam, and gun line, space wolves, Blood angels, and necron armies of al shapes and sizes.

Hq1
Vulkan hestan -190 rides in the redeemer with his brother (the captain) and the terminators... if you didnt already guess

Hq2
Space marine captain, artificer armor,storm shield, relic blade, melta bombs -165

Elite 1
Terminator assault squad- all 5 with thunder hammer/storm shield, in a landraider redeamer with Extra armor and a multi melta- 465

Elite 2
Dreadnought, mm, Twin linked auto cannon - 115

Elite 3
Dreadnought mm, Twin linked auto cannon- 115

Troop 1
Tac squad 10 man, Multi melta, flamer, Sgt with bolt pistol and a fist, in a rhino with extra armor -245

Troop 2
Tac squad 10 man, Multi melta, flamer, Sgt with bolt pistol and a fist, in a rhino with extra armor- 245

Fast 1
Landspeeder with heavy flamer and multi melta -70

Fast 2
Landspeeder with heavy flamer and multi melta -70

Fast 3
Landspeeder with heavy flamer and multi melta -70

that 1750 on the dot... lots of 50/50 armor and troop killing possibilities.... and it works for me.. i have a play style different than most. but my list ive played 20+ times and i havent lost yet

Interesting armament of the dreadaughts,although you seem to lose out on the ranged firepower. So in the list below, would a pair of predators, pair of riflemen, or 1 of each, be a better idea?

HQ

Vulkan-190pts

Elites

5x TH/SS, Redeemer, MM, EA- 465pts
2x TL AC Dreadnought- 125pts
2x TL AC Dreadnought- 125pts

Troops

10x Marines, Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts
10x Marines, Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts
10x Marines, Missile, Flamer, Combiflamer, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts

Fast Attack

Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts
Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts
Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts

If I replaced the riflemen with 2x Combi-predators, then the land raider can get lascannon sponsons, increasing the fire power

I think the LRR will do you just fine. With transporting terminators you will more than likely be moving more than 6" a turn with the LR so you will not be making use of both lascannon sponsons most of the time.

But would predators or riflemen be better?

No one?

Brother Dvorn wrote:Interesting armament of the dreadaughts,although you seem to lose out on the ranged firepower. So in the list below, would a pair of predators, pair of riflemen, or 1 of each, be a better idea?

HQ

Vulkan-190pts

Elites

5x TH/SS, Redeemer, MM, EA- 465pts
2x TL AC Dreadnought- 125pts
2x TL AC Dreadnought- 125pts

Troops

10x Marines, Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts
10x Marines, Multimelta, Meltagun, Combimelta, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts
10x Marines, Missile, Flamer, Combiflamer, Power fist, Rhino- 245pts

Fast Attack

Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts
Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts
Land speeder, MM/HF- 70pts

If I replaced the riflemen with 2x Combi-predators, then the land raider can get lascannon sponsons, increasing the fire power

This list is fine. I would stick with the Autocannon Dreadnoughts.

- Vanilla predators have to remain stationary, and are killed easily by outflankers and deep strikers. Blood angels predators are much, much better.
-Dreadnoughts can move and shoot, and tie up enemy units in hand to hand if needed.
-Your anti-heavy armor is more then covered with melta, so two twin linked Autocannons would be better for dealing with light armor.

You don't need a Lascannon Land Raider either. The Redeemer is much better as an assault vehicle.

I suppose I am just worried about monsterous creatures, and mephiston. Would replacing the missile launcher, with a plasma cannon, since I have the spare points, be a good idea?

Brother Dvorn wrote:I suppose I am just worried about monsterous creatures, and mephiston. Would replacing the missile launcher, with a plasma cannon, since I have the spare points, be a good idea?

Monsterous creatures and Mepiston, meet TH/SS termies. There is little that these guys cannot handle.

If you have 5pts spare, then a Plasma cannon would not be a terrible upgrade. Personally, I would upgrade the third tac squad to a meltagun, and run all Missiles/meltagun/combimelta/fist, but either works really.

I think I will have the plasma cannon, as I already have the combi flamer flamer squad built up

How viable would giving the dreadnaughts a plasma cannon each, it would allow me to get some more anti terminator stat firepower in the list, and increases the niche of the dreadnaughts

Nah, stick with the autocannons. You need long range anti-transport

I would at least dump 2 pf's from the tac squads to upgrade the redeemer to a crusader and add a 6th assault termie.

Plasma Cannons on dreadnoughts are useful, however in this list, it comes after the MM in the priority list. TL-ACs are going to make your life easier.

Also with the Redeemer, are you taking an extra Termie? Or is Vulkan going there? I don't think the Redeemer is really needed here as you have enough of this kind of weapon and if you're shooting it on the turn the Assault Terminators disembark you better be shooting elsewhere. If you have an LRC you can hit hordes fairly well with the Hurricanes without making the Terminators less useful. The standard TL-Las version is good for shooting transports up close so that the Assault Terminators can charge the unit inside, or if against MechVets fire the MM at the target Chimera and a sponson at another Chimera to line up next turns assault target, either a naked squad or Stunned Chimera.


I agree on dumping the PFs on tacticals; If they assault a tank, good its likely to get crippled or at least stunlocked, if they assault/assault a CC squad, they will die as most CC squads tend to have either a crap load of attacks (Slugga Boyz) or lots of Power Weapons, (GK Interceptors).

In the first, the fist will never get a hit, and remember that the Nob will have enough PK attacks to kill at least 2 marines on the charge.
In the Second, we see a unit of 5, probably with Halberds, wounding first and killing most of your squad before the PF gets a swing.

In the event you assault a shooty unit, then congratulations you'll kill it anyway, the PF is just underlining that fact.

PFs are best in Sternguard, as they tend to get a round of painful shooting in first (especially if you stick Lysander in there), then you opponent thinks, should I assault them and risk PF wounds, or should I fallback out of 18". If they do assault, chances are the unit has taken a lot of wounds from the SG, especially if its MEQ and the SG used Vengeance rounds, which means they're likely to be crippled anyway, the PF is here because it will finish a squad in your opponent's turn meaning the SG can destroy a second target. The only time where this doesn't happen is when a dedicated assault unit or a horde assaults the SG, but those aren't what the SG are supposed to shoot so its a given loss.

Vulkan would be riding in the land raider, I think I may undedicate the thing to allow termies to deep strike if I fell the need.

What would be the best use of the points for the powerfists?
If I take the normal LR that's 65pts to spend on something, although the combi weapons could be dropped netting me 95pts.

Yes, no?

Brother Dvorn wrote:Yes, no?

I recommended dumping 2 pf's, upgrading the redeemer to a crusader and adding another th/ss termie.

Just had another idea, if I dropped a landspeeder as well as 2 fists, I could get a vindicator, or another unit of some sort, which could help alot as a diversion